Celtic Goblinoids of the Savage Coast? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Celtic Goblinoids of the Savage Coast?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
traversetravis
Apr 18, 2008 23:23:20 Hi, looking at a Savage Coast map in the Vaults, got me thinking of the three goblinoid homelands north of the Confederated Kingdom of Robrenn; namely, the Land of Cassivellonis (Orcish Territory), the Land of Carnax (Orcish Territory), and the Highlands of Pyctis (Goblin Territory). Robrenn is M-Gaul, and it's conceivable that these three goblinoid lands are M-Gaulish too. However, given the placenames, I wonder if the Cassivellonis Orcs aren't supposed to be M-Britons, with the Pyctis Goblins as M-Picts? "Cassivellonis" is similar to the M-British Catuvellauni tribe and the connection of "Pyctis" with "Pict" is obvious and the use of "Highlands" in the name evokes the Scottish Highlands (formerly the "Pictish Highlands").

However, instead of M-Picts, the Pyctis Goblins might be M-Aquitanians (who spoke a language similar to Basque), since the Aquitanians were also called Picts (the "Picts of France"). On the other hand, there were also Gaulish tribes called "Catalauni" and "Pictones", so the goblinoids could simply be M-Gaulish. And, I don't know what tribe the name "Carnax" sounds like, other than simply Gaulish.

Does anyone know if any canonical text that sheds more light on this?

Travis
#2
traversetravis
Apr 19, 2008 0:23:32 Anyway, if these goblinoids are all M-Gauls, this is another example of a Mystaran theme:

"A RW culture may be represented by both a human country (or perhaps rakasta, lupin or other substitute race) and one or more goblinoid countries".

Other examples:

Aztec = human Azcans of HW and Tiger Clan + goblinoid Oenkmarians
North American Indian = human Atruaghin Clans + Badland Goblins and gnolls of the El Grande Carrascal (in the Savage Coast) and Red Orcland of the Broken Lands
Roman Empire = human Thyatians (though more Byzantine than Roman) + Orcus Rex of the Broken Lands
Ottoman Turks = human Huleans + gnolls of Gnollistan ("Nizam Pasha" is the name of a RW Ottoman military leader)
Mongols = human Ethengarians + Hobgobland of the Broken Lands

Any others?

Travis
#3
wilhelm_
Apr 19, 2008 0:38:20
However, instead of M-Picts, the Pyctis Goblins might be M-Aquitanians (who spoke a language similar to Basque), since the Aquitanians were also called Picts (the "Picts of France").

Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar.
Also, VotPA indeed had Robrenn as a obvious M-Gaul, but SC (and especially SB) somewhat made it more "elvish" (elven is still spoken at there) and M-Ireland (Miles Killian O'Kayne and Bridget O'Kayne being good examples of that).
#4
traversetravis
Apr 19, 2008 2:38:33
Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar.

For Mystaran goblinoids, it seems they often have mixture of "typical/generic goblinoid" culture (especially language and names) with a Real World culture. A similar example would be the gurrash of The Bayou, with "generic reptilian" names but with a Cajun culture.

Travis
#5
traversetravis
Apr 19, 2008 3:00:33
Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar.
Also, VotPA indeed had Robrenn as a obvious M-Gaul, but SC (and especially SB) somewhat made it more "elvish" (elven is still spoken at there) and M-Ireland (Miles Killian O'Kayne and Bridget O'Kayne being good examples of that).

I suggest that this admixture of Irish elements into Robrenn is an example of ignorance of the later SC development team. Nevertheless, I'm up for supporting canon, even in clumsy cases such as this. After all, Mystara is a patchwork world.

Travis
#6
wilhelm_
Apr 19, 2008 15:14:39
For Mystaran goblinoids, it seems they often have mixture of "typical/generic goblinoid" culture (especially language and names) with a Real World culture.

Indeed. Both Broken Lands and SC tribes shows that

A similar example would be the gurrash of The Bayou, with "generic reptilian" names but with a Cajun culture.

I though that the lupins of Nouvelle Renardie had the Cajun culture

I suggest that this admixture of Irish elements into Robrenn is an example of ignorance of the later SC development team. Nevertheless, I'm up for supporting canon, even in clumsy cases such as this. After all, Mystara is a patchwork world.

Yes, indeed. And we have something similar happening with Eusdria, that becomes a sort of Viking-like nation in RS, but at the same time is modern enough to have it's own fencing school.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 traversetravis Apr 18, 2008 23:23:20	Hi, looking at a Savage Coast map in the Vaults, got me thinking of the three goblinoid homelands north of the Confederated Kingdom of Robrenn; namely, the Land of Cassivellonis (Orcish Territory), the Land of Carnax (Orcish Territory), and the Highlands of Pyctis (Goblin Territory). Robrenn is M-Gaul, and it's conceivable that these three goblinoid lands are M-Gaulish too. However, given the placenames, I wonder if the Cassivellonis Orcs aren't supposed to be M-Britons, with the Pyctis Goblins as M-Picts? "Cassivellonis" is similar to the M-British Catuvellauni tribe and the connection of "Pyctis" with "Pict" is obvious and the use of "Highlands" in the name evokes the Scottish Highlands (formerly the "Pictish Highlands"). However, instead of M-Picts, the Pyctis Goblins might be M-Aquitanians (who spoke a language similar to Basque), since the Aquitanians were also called Picts (the "Picts of France"). On the other hand, there were also Gaulish tribes called "Catalauni" and "Pictones", so the goblinoids could simply be M-Gaulish. And, I don't know what tribe the name "Carnax" sounds like, other than simply Gaulish. Does anyone know if any canonical text that sheds more light on this? Travis
#2 traversetravis Apr 19, 2008 0:23:32	Anyway, if these goblinoids are all M-Gauls, this is another example of a Mystaran theme: "A RW culture may be represented by both a human country (or perhaps rakasta, lupin or other substitute race) and one or more goblinoid countries". Other examples: Aztec = human Azcans of HW and Tiger Clan + goblinoid Oenkmarians North American Indian = human Atruaghin Clans + Badland Goblins and gnolls of the El Grande Carrascal (in the Savage Coast) and Red Orcland of the Broken Lands Roman Empire = human Thyatians (though more Byzantine than Roman) + Orcus Rex of the Broken Lands Ottoman Turks = human Huleans + gnolls of Gnollistan ("Nizam Pasha" is the name of a RW Ottoman military leader) Mongols = human Ethengarians + Hobgobland of the Broken Lands Any others? Travis
#3 wilhelm_ Apr 19, 2008 0:38:20	However, instead of M-Picts, the Pyctis Goblins might be M-Aquitanians (who spoke a language similar to Basque), since the Aquitanians were also called Picts (the "Picts of France"). Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar. Also, VotPA indeed had Robrenn as a obvious M-Gaul, but SC (and especially SB) somewhat made it more "elvish" (elven is still spoken at there) and M-Ireland (Miles Killian O'Kayne and Bridget O'Kayne being good examples of that).
#4 traversetravis Apr 19, 2008 2:38:33	Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar. For Mystaran goblinoids, it seems they often have mixture of "typical/generic goblinoid" culture (especially language and names) with a Real World culture. A similar example would be the gurrash of The Bayou, with "generic reptilian" names but with a Cajun culture. Travis
#5 traversetravis Apr 19, 2008 3:00:33	Indeed, but they actually speak Yaz, which is the same language spoken by the other Yazi goblinoids. And since they're rather "stereotyped generic M-Amerindians", I think those goblinoids north of Robrenn are also somewhat "stereotyped generic M-Picts", which make them more or less similar. Also, VotPA indeed had Robrenn as a obvious M-Gaul, but SC (and especially SB) somewhat made it more "elvish" (elven is still spoken at there) and M-Ireland (Miles Killian O'Kayne and Bridget O'Kayne being good examples of that). I suggest that this admixture of Irish elements into Robrenn is an example of ignorance of the later SC development team. Nevertheless, I'm up for supporting canon, even in clumsy cases such as this. After all, Mystara is a patchwork world. Travis
#6 wilhelm_ Apr 19, 2008 15:14:39	For Mystaran goblinoids, it seems they often have mixture of "typical/generic goblinoid" culture (especially language and names) with a Real World culture. Indeed. Both Broken Lands and SC tribes shows that A similar example would be the gurrash of The Bayou, with "generic reptilian" names but with a Cajun culture. I though that the lupins of Nouvelle Renardie had the Cajun culture I suggest that this admixture of Irish elements into Robrenn is an example of ignorance of the later SC development team. Nevertheless, I'm up for supporting canon, even in clumsy cases such as this. After all, Mystara is a patchwork world. Yes, indeed. And we have something similar happening with Eusdria, that becomes a sort of Viking-like nation in RS, but at the same time is modern enough to have it's own fencing school.