Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JohnLynch Apr 22, 2008 20:39:13	I'm sorry if this has been talked about to death (although I did a search and found nothing), but as I was reading the History of Athas I saw that Rajaat clearly lived for over 4,000 years before he even began his experiments with magic. This begs the question: where and how did he gain his immortality? I think it would be interesting if there existed ancient nature-master records somewhere that outlined how to gain immortality. This could have then been discovered by anyone and so we can have any amount of Immortals that we feel like having as a separate power to the sorcerer-kings/defilers/preservers. Alternatively Rajaat may have discovered Immortality himself, and he may have given the gift to a number of people in his early years when he had followers. These would probably be defilers and preservers, but they wouldn't necessarily be Dragons or Avangions and definitely wouldn't be sorcerer kings. What do people think?
#2 squidfur- Apr 22, 2008 20:43:10	Its that pyreen are an extremely long-lived race, being effectively immortal.
#3 JohnLynch Apr 22, 2008 21:06:44	Aaah okay. Darn.
#4 Zardnaar Apr 23, 2008 2:21:07	Its that pyreen are an extremely long-lived race, being effectively immortal. In 2nd ed didn't Pyreen die at around age 1000? Either way Rajaat is also a mutant so that could also explain it.
#5 cnahumck Apr 23, 2008 10:17:35	There are ways to gain immortality. And, others did have that ability as well back in the times of the Green Age. In my mind, there is nothing wrong with them finding other ways to live forever.
#6 Pennarin Apr 23, 2008 11:01:55	The one reference to age I recall is in the DSMCI where they talk about the leader of the pyreen who is so old he may die soon. Rajaat, with all his power, may be trully immortal though. In Rise and Fall, Abbey suggested that only the power of the Prisitine Tower's lifeshaping aura could keep Rajaat unnaturally alive due to his age, why he kept at the tower way after refining magic.
#7 rikkiwalker Apr 23, 2008 20:19:28	I read in one of the boxed sets or compendiums that he used a combination of lifeshaping and the Way.....then they came out saying that pyreen were practically immortal.....however it could be done any number of ways......i am thinking one of the coolest ways would be to tweak complete healing and make a high science that causes complete celluar regeneration
#8 youngpreserver Apr 28, 2008 10:01:58	Many of you are very close. Pyreen are very long lived, but not immortal. As they live *over* a thousand years they are often thought to be 'effectively' immortal but ask any t'liz that's been around since before the cleansing wars and they'll show you true immortality's definition. Rajaat certainly could have extended his lifespan using his arcane abilities or his understanding of the way might have unlocked this path as well. We do see him linked to the Pristine tower once the cleansing wars begin and also find that he was suffering the effects of time as his body did age. This leads me to believe that the tower was extending his lifespan in some fashion. Truly I don't believe Rajaat would have persued immortality. He hated himself, hated what he was and even despised his own soul. This is what lead him to the insanity of restoring Athas to the Blue age and then handing everything over to the halflings. Nothing about his existance would speak of a desire to prolong things any longer than was neccisary to see his war complete. Just my $0.02 -Jason
#9 Zardnaar Apr 28, 2008 14:28:32	I still think Rajaat mutation is a more likey source as opposed to his power. He was already several thousand years old before he cast his 1st cantrip and that was before he moved to the tower.
#10 youngpreserver May 13, 2008 7:31:54	Well Rajaat being a Pyreen effectively made him a druid (in his early life), and in 2e druids of level 16 or 17 stopped aging physically. After his first acts of defiling he lost his druid powers but maybe he resorted to lifeshaping to prolong his life. Then he switched to fruits of longevity (when he managed to learn how to make magical fruits). All hypothetical, but reasonable. Remember that 2nd Edition druids stoped aging physically but would still die when their time was up. We saw that Rajaat indeed did age through the Cleansing Wars period of time, so I'm not a giant fan of his 'immortality'... rather of his life's extension through various means, some of which you mentioned here. Later he found an advance being formula that suited him; the übersunwizard, and finally he manage to become a quasi-god (divine rank 0). Quasi-godhood doesn't make him a god, but it gives him immortality. Hmmm. I always liked the idea that Rajaat was the one who got the closes to godhood in Athas. Quasi-god his pretty close. I love it! I always thought Dregoth came the closest. Either way I reject any 'godhood' status in DS. I like that door shut tight and double locked. -Jason
#11 youngpreserver May 13, 2008 18:04:21	Ahhh... munchkin... good times, but an even better card game. -Jason
#12 rikkiwalker May 13, 2008 22:11:09	One thought of increasing longevity in Dark Sun that I dreamed up one day when reading the original 2nd edition Wanders Journal is what about a side effect of drawing life energy from someone or something which causes mild rejuvenation? Preservers would not really feel the effects to an appreciable degree because they take only what they need to cast the spell and discharge the rest back, but some truly powerful and skilled defilers who suck up as much as they can end up finding themselves living just a tad longer then usual and putting two and two together and realizing that it is from the drawing of energy. Now wizards of any sort being very rare on Athas and usually not surviving long due to competition and everyone being against them, would not really live long enough or feel inclined to pass this information on to others, especially preservers lest it encourage defilers to suck up way more energy then they need to in the first place. Just a thought
#13 RalofTyr May 14, 2008 21:57:09	Magic.