Are there any "fan-official" setting locations for the Fazzlewood (the location of O1 Gem and Staff and its predecessor Quest for the Fazzlewood)?
What about the Dwarven Island of Baylor, the location of the very early modules Palace of the "Vampire Queen" and "Dwarven Glory"?
I seem to recall someone suggesting Alphatia for O1, though I would love to hear more specific (or other) suggestions.
For some reason I assumed the Fazzlewood would be close to Baylor, but I guess there is no real need for it to be.
Havard
What about the Dwarven Island of Baylor, the location of the very early modules Palace of the "Vampire Queen" and "Dwarven Glory"?
Which modules are these? I think I missed them: never heard of the Baylor island, too...
As regards the "Gem and the Staff" module, I was in the opinion that Alphatia (the Kingdom of Stonewall, precisely) could have been the right setting for the adventure.
The setting is really high magic: there is even a young boy - who brings food from the village to the tower of Felspel the archmage - that have a magical item (a brass disk with some kind of "move silently" spell imbued in it). Mprepver, the PC is moved around the locations through some teleport spells cast by the mages that hired him. The same number of magic users of the region seems quite big anyway. I counted at least five of them: Tormaq the archmage, his rival Felspel, Felspel apprentice Cigam, Sakara the sorceress and an unnamed mage who rules a ruined place called Gosky with an army of invisible warriors. Notice however, that both Tomaq and Felspel - the two most powerful mages of the whole region - are just lev 14 wizards.
"Here is a scroll to teleport you out of the wizard's tower," adds Cordate.
If Eric gets the purse, he will find in it 5 sp, 8 cp, a brass disk stamped with the image of a dragon, an iron key, a rabbit's foot, and a folded piece of paper listing common food items.
The brass disk is a special magic item. When carried by itself at arm's length, it allows the bearer to move silently across any type of wood floor or surface.
Among the papers on the table is a letter addressed to a certain "Sakara the Sorceress." The letter states that the writer has obtained a medallion from the ruins of Gosky. Here the late Lord of Gosky had ruled an army of invisible warriors. The writer goes on to say he has given this trinket to his "loyal servant, D'tan, who has found it useful in his duties."
you are to steal the fabled Staff of Fazzlewood from Tormaq's arch rival, the wizard Felspel
You reluctantly agree to perform this service, for Felspel is a famous wizard
The young man is Cigam, Felspel's apprentice.
Some more hints: the official name of the O1 adventure's place is "Province of Luho". The province is ruled by a Governor. Eric, the adventure's PC, does not live there: he lives in another city that is part of a kingdom; this kingdom is in turn part of a larger empire:
"Where is the true gem located?" you ask.
"Tormaq's tower in the province of Luho," he replies.
A sudden chill dampens your enthusiasm. "I know of Tormaq, the Archmage of Luho. The prospect of thieving from a powerful wizard is not to my liking. Even though I am the best thief in the city, it would be very foolhardy...
"So he asked me to mention that he knows the only witness to your daring theft of the Royal Scarab from the governor's palace. Should you decline to work for him, my master would feel it his civic duty to produce the witness to the Imperial Guard. Whatever fate should befall you in Luho would be far kinder than what the governor would impose upon one who embarrassed him so.
There are also some hints about a powerful "Agents' Guild" that should act as a large thieves organization thorughout the kingdom or the empire:
the rewards for success would be generous indeed, especially with the contract terms guaranteed by the powerful Agents' Guild.
Alphatia seemed to em the most suitable setting. I chose the Kingdom of Stonewall because thieves and rogues are able to operate with some chance of success (the other obvious choiche would have been the Kingdom of Ne'er-do-Well, but I didn't think it was suitable, due to the "legalized crime" policy: in my opinion it would have discouraged the powerful mages cited above from settling in the region). moreover, the Kingdom of Stonewall is mostly highland country, and it seems to me that the O1 adventures are set in caves or dungeon excavated in some mountain.
I don't know anything about the Baylor island, but I think that it could be possible to locate this island offshore the Stonewall coast as a part of the Alphatian Empire, setting there all the adventures you mentioned. ;)
You make a good case for Stonehaven as the setting of this module. Having it set in the western regions of Alphatia makes it more likely that the module will be used too, while the eastern parts of Alphatia seem very remote.
Which modules are these? I think I missed them: never heard of the Baylor island, too...
Yeah, I'm moving into quite an obscure territory here I should think:
Palace of the Vampire Queen:
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-palace.htm
Dwarven Glory:
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-dglory.htm
Both are set on the Isle of Baylor.
These are the facts I have been able to collect on Baylor so far:
The Kingdom of Baylor
Baylor is an island which is home to a dwarven kingdom ruled by King Arman. The Capital is Ar Toe. 300 years ago a Vampire Queen arrived and settled in a palace somewhere in the shrouded mountain peaks of the Island. She and her minions prey on the blood of dwarf peasant farmers and their children. Even the King's daughter has been abducted. The Island is also home to the "Ten Orc Tribes" ruled by Mortoc. The Orcs were long ago defeated by King Arman, but may not have been destroyed entirely. Dwarven Glory is an abandoned dwarf community from the days of war between the dwarves and the Orcs. It is said ancient evil rests there.
There was a third module, Misty Isles, but I haven't been able to find out much about it other than that it supposedly was not as good as the other two, and that it was not distributed by TSR. One might speculate that Baylor was one of the Misty Isles, a chain of islands in the region.
The Misty Isles could easily be found near Stonewall. The proximity to Denwarf Hurgon would suggest that the Baylor dwarves were colonists from that Kingdom.
Thoughts?
Oh,
here is another thread about the products from Wee Warriors:
http://www.acaeum.com/forum/about2894-0-asc-0.html
(Sadly, very little of it deals with the actual contents of the modules)
Havard
http://jrients.blogspot.com/2007/02/fragments-from-palace-of-vampire-queen.html
Havard
Either the Stonewall area he suggests or else Foresthome (which is where I put it) seem like they would work, with the Fazzlewood being a particular section of the central forests of Alphatia there.
Yeah, I'm moving into quite an obscure territory here I should think:
Palace of the Vampire Queen:
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-palace.htm
Dwarven Glory:
http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-dglory.htm
Both are set on the Isle of Baylor.
Those predate the D&D Known World and Mystara in all its incarnations!
Not to mention they cost a fortune if you want an authentic copy.
Although they can be set anywhere(being generic), I have always considered those Greyhawk modules...although Blackmoor was out in the format of the Temple of the Frog at the time as well.
Those predate the D&D Known World and Mystara in all its incarnations!
Not to mention they cost a fortune if you want an authentic copy.
Although they can be set anywhere(being generic), I have always considered those Greyhawk modules...although Blackmoor was out in the format of the Temple of the Frog at the time as well.
Yeah, I guess they in no way can be considered canon.
Still, Baylor makes for a nice little island nation. I like the idea of having it set near Alphatia as suggested, though since you mention it, claiming it for Blackmoor might also be interesting. I am planning on turning some of the locations from the Holmes edition into parts of the Blackmoor setting...
The only thing I will let Greyhawk have exclusive rights to from the Classic line is whatever setting material may be found in Supplement I, though IIRC that is mostly rules anyway...
Havard
On another matter, maybe it would be nice to place in the area also the coastal gnomish city of New New Mistraven (and the ruins of its precedessors: Mistraven and New Mistraven) from BoWI (pages 49-50). Here is the entry ("Gnomish Fabulous Submersible" invention):
History: The gnomish submersible was originally refered to in an ancient fantasy tale as “Orchana’s Fabulous Machine.” The vehicle described therein was a fantastic device that worked by means of unknown and unknowable magics. The tale was heard by the gnome Winchesmira of New Mistraven (Old Mistraven was blown up ten years previously). Winchesmira constructed the Fabulous Submersible, but had to cut a few corners to make it work with the magics available. He was aided by a number of powerful wizards, who assisted only after Winchesmira promised never to try to help those wizards in any of their future research.
Winchesmira sought originally to mass-produce these devices, with an eye towards creating an undersea gnomish kingdom. However, after creating his prototype, Winchesmira found he had exhausted the mages willing to work with him. At that time, the city of New Mistraven blew up, suffering the same fate as its predecessor when magical experiments went awry.
Winchesmira disappeared in the cataclysm, and the city was replaced by New New Mistraven. It is believed that a series of hidden workshops lies beneath the ruins of the old city-workshops said to house the hulls of two dozen Fabulous Submersibles, plus a large quantity of the necessary magic items and inanimate (it is hoped) stone golems.
In my opinion this gnomish city is along some Alphatian coast, possibly in Denwarf-Hurgon or in the Alatians. The two dozens of hidden fabulous submerible should be the same machines used by the kingdom of Aquas acting as its cargo and military fleet. Given the fact that Aquas was founded in AC 949 we may think that the submarines were discovered by Zyndryl the same year or the year before.
Do you think it will fit?
(BTW, Denwarf-Hurgon has a really huge territory: don't you find strange that its population is so small?).
It may be small but I don't think that's really a problem is it? Dwarves aren't known to be very prolific and if they've experience hardships and warfare it could be quite reasonable.
On another matter, maybe it would be nice to place in the area also the coastal gnomish city of New New Mistraven (and the ruins of its precedessors: Mistraven and New Mistraven) from BoWI (pages 49-50).
...
In my opinion this gnomish city is along some Alphatian coast, possibly in Denwarf-Hurgon or in the Alatians.
I agree. I think it would be very likely that this coast has many rugged islands of various sizes fairly close to the mainland.
The fit seems like a good one to me.
Those predate the D&D Known World and Mystara in all its incarnations! [snip] Although they can be set anywhere(being generic), I have always considered those Greyhawk modules...although Blackmoor was out in the format of the Temple of the Frog at the time as well.
Didn't B1 and B2 predate Mystara too? The Acaeum lists their release as 1978 and 1979 here. And even though they were given official placement in Greyhawk, they were also placed in Mystara, presumably simply because they used the OD&D rules.
I like Havard's criterion: if it's OD&D, it fits somewhere in Mystara. The one exception might be the OD&D Greyhawk Supplement. Yet even it reportedly has little Greyhawk-specific material, but instead contains OD&D rules expansions, such as the Paladin class and Beholder monster, which are ancestral to the BECMI OD&D, and hence Mystara. And I suggest the name "Greyhawk" on the cover ought not to automatically disqualify it for Mystara, since even Castle Greyhawk is slated to appear in Mystara as an interplanar brigadoon, according to Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk page 188.
Heck even the Melnibonean and Cthulhu pantheons from the OD&D Gods, Demi-Gods, and Heroes booklet are tangentially relevant, in that Mystara's Dimension of Myth likely has ties to the Cthulhu Mythos, and Strongheart's Nihrain horse and the Kelmain from Ghyr likely came from the world of Melnibone. Thus that booklet conceivably gives official OD&D versions for those deific beings of Laterre and Melnibone.
Not to mention they cost a fortune if you want an authentic copy.
Same could be said for the Domesday Blackmoor material. I don't want cost to determine whether a product is considered Mystara-relevant.
Travis
Didn't B1 and B2 predate Mystara too? The Acaeum lists their release as 1978 and 1979 here. And even though they were given official placement in Greyhawk, they were also placed in Mystara, presumably simply because they used the OD&D rules.
Yes they did, although the B1 monochrome does provide a placement in Greyhawk/Blackmoor(I believe it refers to the Duchy of Ten), B2 never had a setting mentioned in its pages. The B1 color version of the module dropped the Greyhawk/Blackmoor reference, and B2 was shipped with both the earlier print Basic boxed sets along with the later 1981 Basic Boxed set which may mention Threshold(can't remember), while the 1981 Expert Set released at the same time provided the Duchy of Karameikos.
And the 1983 Expert set placed all the early Basic modules onto the Karameikos and Ylaruam maps, a retroactive placement.
B2 Keep on the Borderlands never got placed into Greyhawk until they did the Return to version of the module which retroactively placed it into Greyhawk but kept a few Mystara references.
I like Havard's criterion: if it's OD&D, it fits somewhere in Mystara.
And I am in sometime agreement and sometime disagreement with Havard's criterion, but that is only my opinion. I really like some of the integration stuff Havard has done and intend to use it some day, and other stuff I don't, which isn't a criticism of Havard's work, often I just don't like the original source material.
Actually Havard, your efforts had me go back and get some Thunder Rift stuff which I had tossed in disgust the first time around.
My main point with this is that the Wee Warriors stuff was not something part of B/X or BECMI D&D and overlooked until now. OD&D predates both BD&D and AD&D and has really been viewed under the Greyhawk and maybe Blackmoor mantle, until now.
And I am in sometime agreement and sometime disagreement with Havard's criterion, but that is only my opinion.
Mine too. While certain mostly generic modules may fit well Mystara (and bring some interesting contributions to the setting), others have little to offer beyond a few (often not so brilliant) names.
O1 falls in the middle -- it is not too useful, but may fit Stonewall, more or less.
The other two are not even TSR, so I wouldn't consider them more relevant to Mystara than any OD&D homebrew.
GP
The other two are not even TSR, so I wouldn't consider them more relevant to Mystara than any OD&D homebrew.
DM Kit #1: "Palace of the Vampire Queen" and DM DM Kit #2: "Dwarven Glory" were produced by Wee Warriors, but were endorsed by and distributed by TSR, which is why they are listed in the TSR Archive, while other Wee Warrior products (Including DM Kit #3: "The Misty Isles") did not hold this position.
I'd say this should be enough for including the "Baylor modules" among the Mystara Apocrypha; being more relevant than homebrew, yet not canon.
NPC Dave has a point about them probably being too expensive to hunt down due to their collector status (and quality), but for fleshing out the Kingdom of Baylor I suspect we already have the information we need should we want to use Baylor as a micro-kingdom outside the coast of Denwarf Hurgon.
Havard