1) Would it make sense to update Mystara to 4th edition?
2) Would it make sense to go back to that "core story" around 1000AC or maybe 1010AC?
3) Would it make sense to do this with professional designers and try to turn it into a viable campaign setting that way, or is the fan-created material too much of an attachment? I guess I'm saying "would 4e Mystara have larger appeal or would it be better as a fan-created setting that pretty much only got used by people who are already using Mystara?"
Short answer...unless you want to change either Mystara or the core rules to 4.0 they won't work.
Mystara is a land of warriors and mages. Not as much on the dragonborne like beings.
It is noticable that in 4.0 chracters can be cursed with powers. By this I mean that characters that would normaly be shun anytime they wanted to Roleplay with NPC are the most powerful. If you think about the culutures in Mystara half demons and dragon people aren't going to beable to walk the streets of Karamiekos.
I guess everyone plays a character with a 3 Charisma score in 4.0.
Who cares when all that is needed is big monsters and even bigger pluses to hit.
Try playing B6 with the new rules and tell me if it makes any sense.
I guess everyone plays a character with a 3 Charisma score in 4.0.
Who cares when all that is needed is big monsters and even bigger pluses to hit.
Not likely for two reasons:
1) You can't have scores below 8 in 4e, AFAIK;
2) Some classes (Warlocks, e.g.) use Charisma for their to hit bonus with their primary magical attacks (ok, it's a hack, and a bad one IMO, but it does give the same combat use to all ability scores...); other classes use it for secondary bonuses (IIRC, the Rogue).
However, 4e doesn't seem more combat oriented than, say, 3e. It does give combat a more tactical strike (while other editions focus more on resource management).
GP
1) Would it make sense to update Mystara to 4th edition?
It really depends, IMO, on what version of Mystara one wants to represent, and what elements one considers more relevant.
Certainly the "BECMI" Known World fits 4e better than the Gazetteers-based version of Mystara.
Also, many character classes are likely to "feel" very different in 4e than in other editions -- where your wizard would be able to cast a Fly or Fireball or Invisibility spell around level 5 in all other editions, this will not be the case in 4e.
The same can be said for races: neither 4e Elves nor Eladrin fit the mold of the Mystaran Elf, 4e Tieflings and Dragonborn do not exist in Mystara (and Half Elves are uncommon and not a primary PC race anyway), and 4e Halflings are physically very different from their Mystaran counterparts.
As to your last question, I'd say that a WotC-redesigned Mystara might appeal to the 4e newbies and to people who prefer the "lightweight" BECMI Known World (Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, Castle Amber, and the Lost City would all make good adventures in 4e, for example), but it would probably be too different from the Mystara of the Gazetteer series to appeal to those who like the Heard/Allston version of the world.
GP
Then say..
However, 4e doesn't seem more combat oriented than, say, 3e. It does give combat a more tactical strike (while other editions focus more on resource management).
GP
No sir..its combat based. Alot of the feats and racial traits are give new ways to do more damage also.
It is more combat oriented.
3e had a large amount of skills catagories to pick from and 4.0 has shrunk them. Hide and sneak are diffrent. Rememeber the Mystarian Halfling with the ability to Hide but must stay motionless.
After sometime I switched to the 3e because of the skills and thier ability to grow each turn. The skills on the character record sheet also helped my players come up with new ideas to handle situations.
4.0 Encurages combat. Mystara was a land that Heroes evolved from experiance and getting away from tough situtaions with their heads intact based on thier skills not a game mechanic.
WOTC devleoped a game mechanic that made it as fun for 1st levels as well as 9th levels because of two reasons.
1. DMs are less creative (Look at the source book info of the past versus 3.5; so of it is complete rehash of the old 2nd edition line). I don't need to talk about prepainted miniatures to prove this point as well. It is a trend that post TSR DMs enjoy threating thier characters with death than developing a good role playing setting. With all the media available it is strange that less is being shared for D&D than what was designed in the early days of plastic mats and xerox.
2. WOTC wants more involvement with RPGA events because it is good for merketing. RPGA events require the games to be govern under rules set about by dice throughs to be fair. In order to do this the game must follow a pattern from each door that is opened as a challenge.
The game has changed. I will play 4.0 but not as Mystara but as what it will have to be the NEW Forgotten Realms.
It really depends, IMO, on what version of Mystara one wants to represent, and what elements one considers more relevant.... I'd say that a WotC-redesigned Mystara might appeal to the 4e newbies and to people who prefer the "lightweight" BECMI Known World (Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, Castle Amber, and the Lost City would all make good adventures in 4e, for example), but it would probably be too different from the Mystara of the Gazetteer series to appeal to those who like the Heard/Allston version of the world.
GP
Indeed, the original, pre-Gazetteer, setting is very much in line with the "points of light" concept that underlies 4E. Many adventures effectively portrayed the feeling of isolated settlements surrounded by threatening lands and monsters of all kinds. The Gazetteer information really filled in and connected the world, significantly subduing that sense of isolation, intead providing a network of nations cunducting trade and politics among themselves.
I would rather WotC not rewrite and publish any Mystara material. I don't have any confidence in WotC's ability to satisfactorily accomplish this. I would rather see a third party publisher do it; and then only if they were to bring in Bruce Heard and Aaron Allston, along with several of the authors here on this forum.
Of course, there is no way WotC would ever release their ownership of Mystara anyway....
No sir..its combat based. Alot of the feats and racial traits are give new ways to do more damage also.
It is more combat oriented.
Most of the feats in 3E were also ways to kill people. D&D has, in every edition, been more oriented towards combat than anything else.
3e had a large amount of skills catagories to pick from and 4.0 has shrunk them. Hide and sneak are diffrent. Rememeber the Mystarian Halfling with the ability to Hide but must stay motionless.
After sometime I switched to the 3e because of the skills and thier ability to grow each turn. The skills on the character record sheet also helped my players come up with new ideas to handle situations.
The rules emphasis continued to be on combat. New crunch focused more on combat abilities than skills and published adventures continued to focus on combat. 3E was the only edition with a decent skills system, but Mystara is not, in fact, a 3E setting.
4.0 Encurages combat. Mystara was a land that Heroes evolved from experiance and getting away from tough situtaions with their heads intact based on thier skills not a game mechanic.
No, Mystara was in fact created for use with the BECMI rules, which have no skill system. (There's an optional one introduced in the Companion set, but it gives you very few skills.)
Mystara was created for a system which encouraged combat as the primary problem resolution mechanic.
Because every edition of D&D has put the most detail and care into combat resolution (and spell-casting).
WOTC devleoped a game mechanic that made it as fun for 1st levels as well as 9th levels because of two reasons.
1. DMs are less creative (Look at the source book info of the past versus 3.5; so of it is complete rehash of the old 2nd edition line). I don't need to talk about prepainted miniatures to prove this point as well. It is a trend that post TSR DMs enjoy threating thier characters with death than developing a good role playing setting. With all the media available it is strange that less is being shared for D&D than what was designed in the early days of plastic mats and xerox.
This is a development which exists only inside your own mind. People have complained about killer DMs since the early days of D&D and I know more good DMs now than I ever did in the early 80s.
And there's certainly a ton more creative material for DMs now than then.
Remember, Mystara was invented for the BECMI system of simple rules and minimalist classes who had few abilities beyond spell casting or whacking people with weapons unless they were thieves, in which case they had some stealing skills too, but those skills started out failing the vast majority of the time until you got up in level a fair amount.
The "core story" of Mystara fits very nicely into the core story of 4th edition. If you have been following some of the ideas that went into the backstory of the new edition, most of it fits very nicely into Mystara (you could argue that Mystara was the original points of light setting). Mystara was powerful enough to draw all of us into it and the draw remains strong enough that I bet many of you are still using the Rules Cyclopedia rules.
1) Would it make sense to update Mystara to 4th edition?
Yes. 4E is closer to the original BECMI rules it was made for in some ways than most other editions of D&D, especially in its emphasis on having an endgame (Epic Destinies and a level cap of 30.) The Paragon Path system would be useful for duplicating such Mystaran/BECMI institutions as the Elven Treekeepers, Mystaran 'Paladins', Avengers, etc. The multi-classing system lends itself to creating such things as the Mystaran Elf (it's a lot easier to create someone who mixes magic and swordsmanship competently).
Racially, Humans, Halflings, Elves, and Dwarves all fit well into Mystara. Half-Elves are tricky because they officially don't exist in Mystara, though it would not have much effect if you allowed them as a rare group.
Eladrin, Tieflings, and Dragonborn are a bit harder. One could easily re-orient some of the official Elven groups to be Eladrin (I'd make the Belcadizians Eladrin). Tieflings could easily be found in Alphatia. Dragonborn are the hardest; they would take some shoehorning.
2) Would it make sense to go back to that "core story" around 1000AC or maybe 1010AC?
I think it wisest to go back to AC 1000 for a 4E mystara to ensure compatibility with older printed material; the Gazeteers are low on crunch but they all assume the AC 1000 setting.
And I think Wrath of the Immortals was terrible for a variety of reasons.
3) Would it make sense to do this with professional designers and try to turn it into a viable campaign setting that way, or is the fan-created material too much of an attachment? I guess I'm saying "would 4e Mystara have larger appeal or would it be better as a fan-created setting that pretty much only got used by people who are already using Mystara?"
Lots of fan-created material would be perfectly compatible with a professional Mystara, especially since the 4E model of 3 books and done means that the issues most beloved to our community / most investigated by our community would be lightly touched on at best. We're very unlikely to get a professional book on the migrations of the human peoples or a final definitive answer to the North Pole swapping question, etc.
I think a properly done 4E Mystara could sell well.
3E was the only edition with a decent skills system
Actually, I'd say the opposite -- 3e is the only edition that doesn't have a decent skill system. Just to name a few flaws, skills are too combat-related, too tied to the classes, with the result of maximized skills being necessary; since number of skills is heavily class dependent, classes that start with few skills, have low pressure on Intelligence and some almost compulsory skill will end up with no skill choices at all (see Sorcerer).
Not surprisingly, the skill system is one of the first things that the 4e designers recognized as a flaw in 3e and corrected.
The correction (having few, very general skills that increase automatically with level and also with training) is probably effective but, like several other 4e design choices, looks like it was chosen taking into account mechanical design concerns only (i.e., it's a hack to make the system work, and makes little sense otherwise).
No, Mystara was in fact created for use with the BECMI rules, which have no skill system. (There's an optional one introduced in the Companion set, but it gives you very few skills.)
This is assuming "Mystara" is primarily the BECMI KW.
I'd rather say that Mystara is defined more by the Gazetteer line, which has a significant stress on skills (most Gazetteer assume the use of the skill system, including Karameikos, Glantri, Northern Reaches, Ethengar, Rockhome, Alfheim, Orcs of Thar and Shadow Elves).
The General Skills system itself was born with GAZ1, and later was included in the (generic) core rules in RC (not the Companion, AFAIR).
I'd therefore say that Mystara, as a complete world rather than a set of adventures in an ur-Points of Light setting, is defined by using the General Skills system.
Thus, in the end, the skill issue IMO reinforces the notion that BECMI KW fits 4e quite well, while Heard/Allston Mystara does not.
GP
Racially, Humans, Halflings, Elves, and Dwarves all fit well into Mystara.
Elves only fit superficially. When you get into the mechanical design of 4e Elves, you see that they are designed to match the Ranger and Cleric classes more than the fighter/wizard hybrid of OD&D, which BTW cannot be reproduced in 4e more than it could in 3e.
GP
I'm not saying that Mystara can't work with 4E, but it is definitely not the kind of campaign world they have in mind for 4E.
Characters and monsters now have higher hit point totals as well as new talents such as healing surges. Imagine combat between a 1st level fighter and kobold in RC D&D. Depending on the respective armor classes, I can't see combat lasting more than 4 rounds. In 4th edition, the rules allow for a longer fight between the two thus making combat proportionally a greater part of a typical gaming session.
Everyone is entitled to their own preferences, but I enjoy a low magic world where gaining levels is a slow process. I honestly believe gaming at the basic levels (1-3) is a lot of fun! With 4th edition continuing the power up of D&D, I think you lose a lot of the flavor of Mystara. Low level adventuring was alway a hallmark of the setting beginning with B1 and continuing all the way through the Gazeteers and Thunder Rift.
Frank
regarding "shades of grey": 4e deemphasizes alignment. I think that 4e is going to be far more "shades of grey" than any other rule system
4e is too combat oriented: 4e has noncombat encounters built right into the rules. I don't see this as a problem.
regarding the release of the Mystara license: WotC is a business. If people could demonstrate a solid business case for licensing Mystara material, WotC as it exists now is probably the first D&D publisher that might go for that.
"points of light": Karameikos, more than any other setting ever published for any rule system, sounds like a strong template for the default 4e setting.
I guess the thought that I had in the back of my head was that the OGL allowed a lot of game designers to basically do full-time or nearly full-time game development, so the technical part of the industry has never been stronger. Paizo really showed everyone how to do a solid campaign with published material so the organizational part of the industry is at a level that was undreamed of when Bruce Heard and his group were at their productive peak. The 4e rule system is likely to be the most sophisticated and powerful fantasy rule system that D&D has ever had.
The core story of Mystara is so strongly aligned with the core story of 4e that I thought there might be some enthusiasm for a reimagining of the setting using 4e rules.
That said, if someone else goes to the trouble to do the shoehorning I'm not gonna be upset when I have to undo it for my personal campaign.
At this point I'm kind of waiting for the books and have decided to leave hooks for things that are to come and whenever possible to adhere to the current ruleset (yes that means Shadowelves will use Drow stats whenever Drow stats come out), and it also means that whenever Swordmages come out they will have always been in the elven/eladrin lands, just more mentioned than seen in action and playable.
My biggest challenge is going to be keeping Thyatis etc the way it was (ie not overly savage and dangerous to grow up in) while balancing the points of light concept which fits so much of the Known World elsewhere.
I always think about resurrecting settings that have been canceled or 'on hiatus' as long as Mystara has, as how would the setting be designed using the current edition of the game, rather than how would the current edition of the game shoehorn into the setting. Since I made the decision to preorder the 4e books, I've been thinking about running Mystara again, and my first thought was, 4E Mystara should probably be completely playable with just the 3 basic books. Mystara was completely playable in OD&D days with just the basic rules and odd magical traits such as the Seven Crafts, and demi-human relics (which fit better into 4e's paragon class feature anyway). So I didn't feel a big need when starting my notes on what to do, with removing Dragonborn or Tieflings and shoehorning Elves/Eladrin into a specific fighter/magic user combo.
* snip *
My biggest challenge is going to be keeping Thyatis etc the way it was (ie not overly savage and dangerous to grow up in) while balancing the points of light concept which fits so much of the Known World elsewhere.
I agree with you totally. I'd like to see a 4th edition Mystara that is largely playable with the core books and some new things ADDED to it the way they were added to the OD&D game through the gazetteers.
It should be reasonable to keep Thyatis roughly as it was presented ... treacherous. The "points of light" here shouldn't necessarily be small settlements far from civilization, they could be small outposts of good trying to survive under the crushing treachery of the Thyatian culture. The homeland can still have monsters and adventure locations, but the country itself ascended to Empire by establishing far-flung colonies (the Hinterlands, Norworld, etc).
Elves only fit superficially.When you get into the mechanical design of 4e Elves, you see that they are designed to match the Ranger and Cleric classes more than the fighter/wizard hybrid of OD&D, which BTW cannot be reproduced in 4e more than it could in 3e.
GP
That's what you have the Eladrin for. They're the elven race designed to match the Wizard class.
As for the Fighter/Wizard hybrid, I'd say a Swordmage with some Wizard multiclassing or vice versa would cover that.
As to whether there's a commercial option here for WotC? I would be in favor of possibly a "one shot" campaign/adventure hardback along the lines of the Expedition to... series. A reimagining of Karameikos for example with the conflicts with Bargle and the Black Eagle Barony could be a lot of fun.
My two ยข anyway.
L
With all the other humanoid types in the known world dragonborn & tieflings reasonably exist. However I'm dropping them as PC options. Just use the mechanics and change the flavour text to the Mystara version.
Alignment works close to the BECMI system. Lawful=good Chaotic=evil neutral=unaligned. The Black Eagle Barony always seemed LE rather than chaotic to me; but fits the 4th ed Evil well.
None of the classes are to much of a stretch. Paladins, Rangers, Warlords can just be dropped in without so much as a ripple. Paladins are fighters who serve the immortals. Rangers are not the trackers of 1st & 2nd, a ranger with 2 blade fighting style would be perfect for a Darokin fencer, with the archer path the Elves who watch Alfheim. The War Machine rules from companion are still useful to me & warlords control some armies. Warlock takes a bit more work. I'm going to change the flavour text of the pacts to fit into Mystara a bit better but not mechanically.
Most importantly for me is no Multiclassing. Yes I know about the multiclass feats but compared to the 3rd ed ability to take a level in an arcane caster class; and the political ramifications of being an arcane caster in Alphatia & Glantri; I never did a 3rd ed conversion.
I agree with Greenknight on the solution for the Elf class. The Swordmage sounds like a perfect fit.
As for the whole points of light thing it's irrelevent to me. Its a different setting and not Mystara.
Drow stats are in the Monster Manual. Swordmage comes out September in the the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide.
That was long winded, but it was to set up for my 4th Edition campaign. Immortals have found that without the Nucleus they must rely on worship and patronage to maintain their might, and so have begun intense proselytizing. Most of the nations of the world suffered little; without the Radiance, the Cult of Rad in Glantri has all but dissolved, except for a radical core that believe the Radiance is not gone, but has merely changed. Thyatis is in a serious state of unrest. It was weakened in the war with Alphatia, and the loss of one of its major Immortals has caused a power vacuum that may threaten to destroy the once proud empire.
Amidst all this are two new races, with no homes to call their own. The dragonborn were created out of an act of desperation. During the year in which no magic functioned, the dragons discovered a horrible caveat; without the natural magic of the world, their eggs could not hatch. Worse still, their Immortal patrons had vanished without a trace. A great Council was formed (another campaign of ours, and very fun!), and a decision was made to hoard the eggs and create guardians to watch over them. Using every ounce of magic they still posessed, in the forms of items collected over the centuries, they made their race to resemble themselves. In the aftermath, with their duty fulfilled, the dragonborn set out into the unknown world, with no legacy or birthright. The draconic Council that created them ascended as Immortals, and now play against one another for control of the entire race (This council is the 3.5 dragon gods, it was fun to play them as mortal beings).
The magic wielded by Alphatians, tempered through traditions foriegn to the world, has always been a subject of mystery and wild tales. With the empire destroyed (transported) many refugees have washed upon the shores of Brun. The most interesting of these are the tieflings. Touched by the primordial power of the Elemental Chaos, tieflings are a rare breed resulting from the Alphatians unorthodox magical practices. They are fearsome to behold, but they possess a disarming charm that has enabled them to mingle with the other races with little conflict. The Empire of Thyatis, however, has deemed the race demonic in nature, and persecutes them zealously.
Once again, I know that is a long-winded post, but I thought that maybe my method of shoehorning in the two new races may spark inspiration in others.
As for the elves and eladrin, the compromise I have come up with is that both races live together as the elven race, with little distinction between the two. One's clan determines whether you are elf or eladrin, as some clans have closer ties to their fey roots.
My 4e campaign will be beginning soon, and I am very excited! It will take place in Karameikos, naturally, and my players are relatively new, having never even heard of the setting. I hope to instill in them an awe and love of this classic and unique setting that initially drew me into the game. I hope to keep a campaign log, and will be posting info on that soon.
I've been toying with the idea of resurrecting the Mystara setting for my 4e game. Naturally, the new core races give me some pause, and apparently I'm not alone in this (as evidenced by the comments in this thread). Here are a couple of thoughts I've been kicking around.
My first thought was that I needed to find some way to shoehorn dragonborn, tieflings and eladrin into the setting. Some ideas I had were to say that the dragonborn were from a previously unexplored region of Mystara - perhaps the southern continent. Then I thought they could also be from some hidden valley in the Hollow World - the pet project of one or more of the draconic Immortals perhaps.
For tieflings, I was thinking of just ignoring the 4e flavor text and making them rare - their race does not breed true, and their fiendish traits can skip whole generations.
For eladrin, I was thinking that I could just swap them out with the Sidhe from Tall Tales of the Wee Folk.
Then I had another idea - an idea that went well with the nostalgia associated with Mystara. In order to recapture some of that OD&D flavor, I could simply throw out all races except human, dwarf, elf and halfling.
But lately, no matter which path I go down, I keep coming across the same fact: my players have never even heard of Mystara. They don't know that Mystara didn't have dragonborn or tieflings originally. And, ultimately, they don't really care - they just want to play and have fun.
I started a 3.x Mystara website some years back. I never got around to converting everything I intended to, but I did put a lot of work into it. I played with a different group back then, and only one of them ever bothered to utilize the website or any of the materials I had converted over.
I fear that if I went and did all of this converting and shoehorning to make things "fit" that the effort would be lost on the players. I keep ending up at the conclusion that ultimately, I can just gloss over the details and nobody will ever notice.
I know it's an old thread, but I've been gone from the boards for some time.
I know! I was wondering where you had gone!
Have you checked out the piazza yet? (See my sig)
For tieflings, I was thinking of just ignoring the 4e flavor text and making them rare - their race does not breed true, and their fiendish traits can skip whole generations.
That would work.
Someone suggested that Tieflings could replace Flaems in 4E Mystara as Flaems have a history of travelling through the planes in order to get to Mystara from Old Alphatia. I think in that version they were to appear human, but have the abilities of Tieflings.
In my own variant, Tieflings would be the descendants of those Flaems who were left behind on the planes. In order to survive, they had to make deals with Entropic Creatures mixing their blood with theirs. Only recently have they been able to find their way to Mystara following markers left behind by the Flaems. Possibly the Glantrians called them to Mystara to fight Alphatia during WotI.
For eladrin, I was thinking that I could just swap them out with the Sidhe from Tall Tales of the Wee Folk.
Yep that is my take as well. I might make them one type of Sidhe, allowing for standard Sidhe to exist as well.
I fear that if I went and did all of this converting and shoehorning to make things "fit" that the effort would be lost on the players. I keep ending up at the conclusion that ultimately, I can just gloss over the details and nobody will ever notice.
I know what you mean. Most players just want to have fun. Taking away options from them is something they will likely respond negatively to. I'm not advocating that no restrictions should be placed on the choices available to players, but most player will find it unreasonable if they aren't allowed to at least use what's in the player's handbook.
What you may do is provide additional options to them (like Rakasta, Lupins etc), although don't be surprised if they choose to stick with that they consider 'official'. OTOH, you can still provide them with a Mystaran flavour when you describe their surroundings. Make the 4E races rare by not using them too often for NPCs, but instead having Mystara specific races show up frequently. If the players are part of other 4E campaigns as well, you'd ideally end up in a situation where they say "why doesn't this campaign have all those cool races that Katana_one's game has?", even if they associate it more with you than with the name Mystara.
Another thing that might be of interest to your players is what connection their characters have to the setting. By tying the Tieflings to the Flaems for instane, the Tiefling PC is going to want to visit Glantri. The Dragonborn IMC are created by the dragons of Wyrmsteeth, hence they have a connection to Norwold. Eladrin are likey to take an interest in the clans of Alfheim, and Alfheim elves will treat Eladrin with reverence and may call on them for assistance.
Havard
I know! I was wondering where you had gone!
Some major Real Life stuff happened, and one of the casualties of the fallout was my Mystara campaign. For the past couple years my interest in running the setting has been somewhat diminished.
Have you checked out the piazza yet? (See my sig)
Not really - I took a peek at a couple of threads, but that's about the extent of it. Perhaps if I actually get another Mystara game off the ground, I might check it out in more detail.
Another thing that might be of interest to your players is what connection their characters have to the setting.
True enough for most, but my group is composed mostly of "casual gamers" who just don't seem interested in that level of immersion in the setting (or even in their characters). But I could be wrong. The biggest obstacle however, is my own schedule - I just don't have the free time I used to, and I'd be a fool to waste it on developing material the players won't appreciate.
I'd be interested in hearing how many fellow Mystara DMs are lucky enough to have players in their groups who know and love the setting as much as we do. For players like that, I'd be willing to put in the time to do the 4e conversions, otherwise, I personally find the work to far exceed the rewards.
Some major Real Life stuff happened, and one of the casualties of the fallout was my Mystara campaign.
For the past couple years my interest in running the setting has been somewhat diminished.
The Piazza:
Not really - I took a peek at a couple of threads, but that's about the extent of it. Perhaps if I actually get another Mystara game off the ground, I might check it out in more detail.
Hope ya do. Its a wonderful place, and most of the people who used to hang out here have moved there.
True enough for most, but my group is composed mostly of "casual gamers" who just don't seem interested in that level of immersion in the setting (or even in their characters). But I could be wrong. The biggest obstacle however, is my own schedule - I just don't have the free time I used to, and I'd be a fool to waste it on developing material the players won't appreciate.
I hear ya. My group has mainly agreed to play in Mystara/Blackmoor because they appreciate the fact that this is where I am at my most enthusiastic, which makes it more fun for them.
I'd be interested in hearing how many fellow Mystara DMs are lucky enough to have players in their groups who know and love the setting as much as we do. For players like that, I'd be willing to put in the time to do the 4e conversions, otherwise, I personally find the work to far exceed the rewards.
Some of us simply find toying around with the setting fun in itself. Discussing Mystara here with likeminded folks is something I consider a hobby of its own. Sometimes things spill over into my games and vice versa which is also good, but not the reason why I do one or the other.
Like you, I tend to do alot of winging it when I game.
Havard
Plus, you can meet Havard's keyboard pants.
Some of us simply find toying around with the setting fun in itself. Discussing Mystara here with likeminded folks is something I consider a hobby of its own. Sometimes things spill over into my games and vice versa which is also good, but not the reason why I do one or the other.
Isn't that the truth! I love playing around with the setting itself just about as much as playing a game. It is such a rich setting.
Plus, you can meet Havard's keyboard pants.
:embarrass
Hehehe!
Havard
(I'm SOOO sorry my Mystarian brothers but I have been cheating with LFR. Mystara is still in my heart.)
Mathematically it will work. It is going to take some large efforts on the team's parts to make some rules work though. I am EXTREMELY sensitive to the fact that Mystara is based on OD&D rules. This is extremely important when defining the Mystara world because so many of the rules limited how the different regions were developed. First I would like to look at what can be preserved in the Mystara style playing.
In the basic class structure we do see elements that are more like OD&D than AD&D. Which is a VERY good thing. Unlike 3.5 the skills are more like OD&D. They require more backing on ability checks than rank and skill points. Like OD&D they require training only once to become proficient. As well the basic classes and races are preserved. Latter Mystara did incorporate AD&D rules and so the environment changed as well.
What has changed that isn't the same that annoys OD&D style players. First off the combat is extremely different. Yet anyone who has played 4.0 will tell you they are never bored when it comes to combat even on the lower levels. Combat is not everything though. Some of the new races present problems. The Eldarin, Dragonborn and Tieflings are examples of this. From a DM perspective there is also the issue of transferring the sacred artifacts that are anthropologically linked to the setting. As well the variance of powers is spread very wide amongst the classes. So qualities of the classes do not mess well with the original setting. For example a nation of magic users would have a difficult time dealing with some of the powers of the warriors now.
So what can we do?
Taking a queue from Wizards maybe the answer to handling the problem. When 4.0 was invented so came the reinvention of the world. If Mystara took the D&D rules and worlds hand have finally transformed them into a product that is not the same as the 1980's through 1990's TSR then alas that must be the same fate that we must do to continue serious expansion of 4.0 material for Mystara. The future development of Mystara should be with the current rules so that current generations of players can be introduced into a history of a world we now all have a firm grasp for.
Possible considerations.
Mystara has its own races. The Lupin and Rakastas are very good examples of playable races that could be expanded on. Fitting Eldarin in may not be as hard as developing what really happened to the creatures of Alfhiem during the fall of the elves in that region, maybe they were different than the elves of Karamiekos. There is no reason why tieflings may not come from a current location of Blackmore; perhaps some survivors of Blackmore are more than willing to trade their magical knowledge to survive in the under ruins of the explosion of Blackmore. And perhaps the Dragonborn are new visitors from another continent that has gained knowledge of the Known World since the destruction of Alphatia.
As the immortals battled during the Wrath of Immortals magic was spread across the land. As well Karamiekos is also contains a Magic Academy so a wide spread understanding of magic and how it is used would change.
The immortals role in all this change is also possible. Perhaps Rad is up to something; maybe something he did is as bad as the spell plague?
It is all possible but I think a 4.0 Mystara project should be launched. It could be exciting to see what the special ability of a Rakasta would be. We can already steal the claw fighter feat from the Gnoll ;)
I don't think it would be too hard to transfer 4.0 to the setting. As long as D&D is always played with its original idea, a sense of imagination
It is all possible but I think a 4.0 Mystara project should be launched. It could be exciting to see what the special ability of a Rakasta would be. We can already steal the claw fighter feat from the Gnoll ;)
An open community project has been started here on The Piazza. I'm sure they'd appreciate any contributions you have.
I don't think it would be too hard to transfer 4.0 to the setting. As long as D&D is always played with its original idea, a sense of imagination
Well said.
It has the advantage of having solid maps and regional descriptions in the Gazetteers and level range was 1-36, which is easily translated to a range of 1-30. Second, almost all of my players know the setting from their first D&D games in the '80s, and that by now half-remembered things make them feel at home.
Dragonborn take the role of the draconians in DL, but being created by the dragons themselves as loyal servants. Tieflings are the offspring of extraplanar visitors to Mystara (and bear a social stigma), and Eladrin are the cousins of the elves of Alfheim, and the magic spots in Alfheim is where the Feywild touches Mystara closest (most humans don't even realize they are not elves).
We have played in the FR setting, but it somehow never had the attraction of Mystara or Greyhawk. We had two campaigns in Greyhawk over 5 and 7 years, and everyone liked the world, while the Realms just didn't catch on.
When starting a 4E campaign I was considering only three options: do another Greyhawk campaign, dig up the Mystara books or write up my own world - since I always wanted to replay some things there, I dug up the books
For nostalgic reasons I am converting some adventures into 4E, unless I find someone who already has
I will probably use Pharao, Oasis of the White Palm, Saga of the Shadowlord, Crown of Glory, Earthshaker, Tree of Life, All that glitters, Egg of the Phoenix, and Ravenloft II: the house on Gryphon Hill.
I am using Mystara for our 4E campaign.
It has the advantage of having solid maps and regional descriptions in the Gazetteers and level range was 1-36, which is easily translated to a range of 1-30. Second, almost all of my players know the setting from their first D&D games in the '80s, and that by now half-remembered things make them feel at home.
Awesome! Those are some really good reasons for using Mystara as your setting.
Dragonborn take the role of the draconians in DL, but being created by the dragons themselves as loyal servants. Tieflings are the offspring of extraplanar visitors to Mystara (and bear a social stigma), and Eladrin are the cousins of the elves of Alfheim, and the magic spots in Alfheim is where the Feywild touches Mystara closest (most humans don't even realize they are not elves).
Not too far from how I'd be doing things. I recommend tying the Tieflings to Diaboli, the Eladrin to Sidhe and Dragonborn to Wyrmsteeth.
For nostalgic reasons I am converting some adventures into 4E, unless I find someone who already has
I will probably use Pharao, Oasis of the White Palm, Saga of the Shadowlord, Crown of Glory, Earthshaker, Tree of Life, All that glitters, Egg of the Phoenix, and Ravenloft II: the house on Gryphon Hill.
Please do share your conversions of the more Mystara relevant of these! There is a Mystara 4e conversion project on the piazza and another one on gmail...
Havard