Also, we dont know if this is permanent. If it is, how do we deal with it? Will we be able to maintain our sense of community here somehow or do we move back to the MML or elsewhere?
For posts here I suggest we mark every Mystara-related post with [Mystara] or [MY]. If fans of other worlds are reading this, doing something similar might be a good idea for you guys too.
In any case, Mystarans, let us know that you are still here and want to keep preserving our community!
Thanks,
Havard
PS: Let's keep this civil. I doubt a flamewar would convince WotC they have made a mistake. Not that we have had many of those, but this is an unusual situation.
My honest personal preference would be to have a message board on the Vaults, if it were possible, but I guess I'll just have to stick it out. I read the MML but I find it seems too bothersome to reply.
I am going to miss that sense of community that we had at the old forum and that really grieves me. Things may continue here but I doubt it will feel quite the same, especially because new threads and posts will bump ours (and everybody else's) down rapidly.
New editions never bothered me; the choice was always ours. The canceling of Dungeon & Dragon magazines didn't bother me; I found our fan produced product more appealing. Nothing WotC sold bothered me; I was never obliged to buy any of it. But this is the first thing that really disappoints me.
if they want their fans to simply make forums elsewhere, why don't they just be direct and say so?
I feel the same way, Havard! I was in shock when I thought the entire Mystara forum had been 'lost'! I guess this means the 'catching up' threads are obsolete now.
Well, the catching up threads were a fun game, but the real tragedy is loosing our home...
My honest personal preference would be to have a message board on the Vaults, if it were possible, but I guess I'll just have to stick it out. I read the MML but I find it seems too bothersome to reply.
I have also gotten used to posting on forums rather than email. Shawn said the Vaults cant have their own forums since becoming the official Mystara website meant not offering services that were in competition with the WotC site. Whether that still applies can be discussed I guess...
If we do go looking for a new home, Dragonsfoot or the Wayfarers Inn may be good options. We should ofcourse keep posting here as well to make WotC know we exist.
I am going to miss that sense of community that we had at the old forum and that really grieves me. Things may continue here but I doubt it will feel quite the same, especially because new threads and posts will bump ours (and everybody else's) down rapidly.
This is my worry as well...
New editions never bothered me; the choice was always ours. The canceling of Dungeon & Dragon magazines didn't bother me; I found our fan produced product more appealing. Nothing WotC sold bothered me; I was never obliged to buy any of it. But this is the first thing that really disappoints me.
I feel the same way. But not just disappointed. I feel truly sad. As if someone kicked me out of my house. Maybe I am overreacting, but that is how I feel right now
Havard
I believe the immortals may have left WOTC.
For whatever reason, WOTC is going to loose the time that was made by us. Which means we will start posting somewhere else where other things maybe advertised to use. We will also not be infleunced to purchase new WOTC junk that we never needed before. Such as miniatures that look nothing like our old worlds anyway. I think this is a signal for the final rebirth of Mystara, somewhere else. This forum was a small part of Mystara in the truth. Dragonsfoot or anything else will be fine. If we could get something started in the Vaults it would be great since it holds most of the information.
See you at beyond the 36th level....
I say let's start a mailing list, at least that way I can keep my own archive copy. Also maybe DF will give us our own forum. It's already the go-to site for Classic players.
I feel the same way. But not just disappointed. I feel truly sad. As if someone kicked me out of my house. Maybe I am overreacting, but that is how I feel right now
Havard
I'm there with ya, bud!
I don't think DF is a good idea (as much as I like DF). They wouldn't let us talk 3e+
--Ray.
If Mystara end up reprinted, there will be more stuff.
Wow, what a mess. Why on earth would anyone decide to merge 10 or so boards that are almost totally unrelated to each other into one giant free-for-all? Bizarre.
If their intent is to cut down on the traffic our boards generate(d), I don't see how increasing the bandwidth we need just to check the boards for new threads is going to help that. Unless the intent is to drive us away...?
Seriously, what is the point of this merger anyway? Just to make the list of boards look shorter? I'm having a problems coming up with even one valid reason for this change that will help anyone - Wizards of the Coast or the people using these boards.
As for the future, my vote for Mystara would definitely be to have boards on pandius.com - it's the natural choice. Now that there is no Mystara board here, the problems with competition may have disappeared - hopefully Shawn can check into it.
All in all: how disappointing. But it's not the end for us by any means. We've survived 15 years already. All we need to do now is find a new home - somewhere obvious and easily accessible that everyone in the community will be able to find easily.
To me this is a sad day for all of the "classic" (Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, etc.) settings. We have been relegated to a storeroom in the back of the WOTC warehouse, "Oh you want to talk about your favorite setting it is in that pile over there with all the other ones". No, WOTC has no obligation to support products that TSR put out, but one would think they would want the potential customers to hang around. This to me seems like an attempt to push people away.
I almost wonder if this is a "if we eliminate their old stuff they will buy the new edition" tactic?
I do hope for all of these settings we find a way to keep our communities together (especially Mystara, I am still waiting for the next Fan Gaz to roll out!)
metal
Alternately we could set up boards somewhere else. I'd be up for that, although I think we should put some thought into where and how we do that. Sometimes these projects start too fast and then fizzle out and we're in a worse position than before.
WotC has said that they're willing to "fire all their existing fans" on a number of occasions and I think the recent handling of the GSL indicates that this is something they're willing to put up with. They're clearly betting the farm on 4e. Mystara has two options as I see it ... continue on its own without WotC support or take on a constructive Mystara 4e project that they might be willing to support.
metal
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515015
Thanks
metal
This is really sad. The great thing about messageboards is that you can go back and read old threads, there was lots of great stuff there. Now it's simply deleted without so much as a warning.
I say let's start a mailing list, at least that way I can keep my own archive copy. Also maybe DF will give us our own forum. It's already the go-to site for Classic players.
the merging of worlds here has really started some talk over at DF as too what the commuity there wants too do. however it appears what ever happens it musty remain either pre-3e or edition nuetral in material talk.
WotC kills Other Worlds forums
and
new forum discussion
.... New editions never bothered me; the choice was always ours. The canceling of Dungeon & Dragon magazines didn't bother me; I found our fan produced product more appealing. Nothing WotC sold bothered me; I was never obliged to buy any of it. But this is the first thing that really disappoints me.
Well put, Hugin. I mostly agree.
And I agree with Thorf. This pretty much really stinks. From the little browsing I did on other forums and announcements regarding the reorganization, I don't see any plan to make Mystara its own board -- it's lumped in with the other worlds (which isn't so bad), but with the little time I have to read boards (though often not participate in discussions, because of time as much as anything else), I don't want to have to hunt and peck my way through the relevant strings. WotC is driving us away (more). It was already a bit of a pain when they rearranged the links in the forums to have to "backtrack" back to the worlds listings in "Other Roleplaying Worlds" (when I was checking at work or location other than home).
I hope I don't get left behind, whatever decision everyone comes up with to continue the discussions of 'all things Mystara.' Is there a current 'Mystara-specific' board at Dragonsfoot? If not, I'd rather not be "lumped-in" with all other editions and settings. These boards (and the MML) have been great over the years, and a source of comfort, creativity, and nostalgia for so long that I often visited and always came back to if gone for a bit of time.
I am a once or twice a week reader of this forum. I like my Mystara seperate from the rest of d&d.
Don't get me wrong...I like Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Eberron, Ravenloft, and other RPG's...but
BUT!!!!
I like them seperate!!!!
Expecially Mystara, The Greatest Game World Out There!!!
I hope we get our own forum going. I dont have time to read through all of these posts from other forums I don't read. Most of the others are just people trying to prove thier points and getting mad at each other. We Mystarans seem to be older and actually "discuss" our favorite game world.
I was seriously thinking of picking up the 4th edition rules but that is now out the window
YOU HEAR ME WIZARDS!!!! You just lost a 90 dollar sale for your shortsightedness!!!!
Call me stubborn but all you guys here at the mystara forum are the best out there and I will probably not be back. I have a 50 hour a week job and a wife and kids...its very hard to find the time to come here anyways...
OK enough venting....Pandius Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with havard idea about adding the tag [Mystara] to our posts. It would be the most practical answer in the short time.
Anyway, I don't feel very confident about this new forum organization. I think that, on an average basis, we used to have half a dozen of new posts a day. If the other boards had the same rate of new posting we might expect to check two or three forum pages every time just to check for new Mystara-related posts.
The best would be a new board somewhere else, but I'm afraid that we will lose some members in the moving: this is what happened to the IMB when our forum was down for a couple of months for maintenance. Just half of the old members joined the new board.
A very tricky matter, anyway...
Seriously, what is the point of this merger anyway? Just to make the list of boards look shorter? I'm having a problems coming up with even one valid reason for this change that will help anyone - Wizards of the Coast or the people using these boards.
The officially given reason is that they don't want "slow moving" boards, where their definition of average traffic is 25 active threads per day (i.e., about the sum of all other worlds boards...).
Here is an indirect link:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1034678
Anyway, the reasons matter little. The true problem is that the level of support of Mystara (and the AD&D worlds as well) has dropped dangerously: there's no more reference to the Vaults of Pandius or the other fan website (these used to be in the main Other Worlds page), nor any reference to the mailing lists.
From my point of view, the main issue is that we need a single discussion forum that is specifically Mystaran -- otherwise it will take Shawn too much time to collect the articles for the Vaults.
Thus, we need to see what Shawn wants to do.
For the time being, I'd recommend using the Mystaran Mailing List for discussions that might need to be archived.
Here is the list web page, with the subscription link:
http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/mystara-l.html
If you need a web access rather than pop/imap, the archive allows both reading and posting (even though it is not as friendly as the boards).
GP
If the other boards had the same rate of new posting we might expect to check two or three forum pages every time just to check for new Mystara-related posts.
The Dark Sun, Greyhawk and Dragonlance boards had similar rates to our own.
The other boards were less active. We might expect at five times the number of post.
The best would be a new board somewhere else, but I'm afraid that we will lose some members in the moving: this is what happened to the IMB when our forum was down for a couple of months for maintenance. Just half of the old members joined the new board.
That's because no one told them. BTW, the old Italian board didn't actually go down (the old board was still accessible well after the front page went down).
GP
From my point of view, the main issue is that we need a single discussion forum that is specifically Mystaran -- otherwise it will take Shawn too much time to collect the articles for the Vaults.
Thus, we need to see what Shawn wants to do.
Well yes, my one response to all this so far is that it's going to be more likely that I'll miss new threads or miss updated posts in threads.
I'm there with ya, bud!
I don't think DF is a good idea (as much as I like DF). They wouldn't let us talk 3e+
Hey, thanks mate!
I agree. DF was one of the first places that came to my mind, but we need a place where all rulesets are allowed.
Since Stanles hasn't yet offered to host something on Pandius, I am thinking he may be reluctant to do so even if allowed to by WotC.
I also think having the forum set up somewhere else will let Stanles focus on updating the Vaults. Any place might be good enough if it is endorsed by Pandius. Shawn maybe you could set up a banner or something indicating THE place to discuss Mystara when we find a new place?
For now, I guess GP is right that returning to the MML will be a good idea, and ofcourse posting here, letting everyone know that we exist.
50 active threads seems wild. I greatly prefer much more slow moving forums than that.
Havard
In the meanwhile, I'd encourage everyone to try and dig up and archive all the old threads that were most meaningful to you (many of them contained very useful stuff that may or may not necessarily have made it to Shawn's site, if only via discussions).
EDIT- Just looking over the DF forums, it looks like that might not be the best alternative, since they are pretty hardcore about no 3E discussion thereupon (admittedly, rules aspects don't enter into our discussions that much, relative to how often we post, but I think allowing for the possibility of all rules- even *shudder* 4E- shouldn't be prohibited).
Maybe we can just get a forum of our own somewhere (not sure how/where offhand, not really familiar with the logistics, though I'm certainly going to look into it), and Shawn could provide a linky on the Vaults?
Maybe we can just get a forum of our own somewhere (not sure how/where offhand, not really familiar with the logistics, though I'm certainly going to look into it), and Shawn could provide a linky on the Vaults?
I think a link or maybe something like a banner showing where the main Mystara discussions will be taking place over at the Vaults would do a good job of bringing Mystara fans there. We just have to agree about a place to move to first.
adidamps2: I know nothing about Planet AD&D so I couldnt really comment. The emphasis on AD&D might not be too attracive for the predominantly Classic D&D oriented(?) Mystara crowd though...?
Havard
and here is the link ot main page:
http://www.bajasafaris.com/padnd/index.php
I am sure they would love the traffic.
Since Stanles hasn't yet offered to host something on Pandius, I am thinking he may be reluctant to do so even if allowed to by WotC.
The Ravenloft site has one. However, managing a large message board may be technically cumbersome.
I also think having the forum set up somewhere else will let Stanles focus on updating the Vaults. Any place might be good enough if it is endorsed by Pandius. Shawn maybe you could set up a banner or something indicating THE place to discuss Mystara when we find a new place?
That is definitely necessary to avoid dispersion in an already small community.
For now, I guess GP is right that returning to the MML will be a good idea, and ofcourse posting here, letting everyone know that we exist.
As I said in the above post, the MML is not exactly visible (I can't find a link to the archive page anymore in the community pages). We should try to make it more easy to reach (e.g., copying the link in the first post of this thread, and keeping the thread active).
50 active threads seems wild. I greatly prefer much more slow moving forums than that.
That's what you get when you take decision based on marketing rather than technical/user experience criteria: 50 active threads give the appearance of a lively community (marketing goal), but from the actual result is a mess (lack of thread organization).
GP
#1 - Thanks Havard, for the shout out to the MML. I don't frequent these boards often and I would not have known about this change otherwise.
#2 - I agree with many of the others out there. I am dissapointed. When I want to discuss Mystara (or even just read about it), I don't want to have to sift through a myriad of other unrelated information.
#3 - I don't like these boards (Gleemax). They are unwieldly and slow and in general just a pain to go through. This makes it worse. I won't be coming back here if I can help it.
Let me know where we are going to live and I will visit there instead.
It's bare bones for now, but I'm more than willing to respond to requests.
http://www.lajzar.co.uk/bb/index.php
It's bare bones for now, but I'm more than willing to respond to requests.
Looks good to me Rhialto!
What do the rest of you think?
Havard
Looks good to me Rhialto!
What do the rest of you think?
Let me be the first to welcome our new Mystaran overlord! The Master looks alot like Rhialto!
:D Let's go!
--Ray.
Looks good to me Rhialto!
What do the rest of you think?
As I said before:
From my point of view, the main issue is that we need a single discussion forum that is specifically Mystaran -- otherwise it will take Shawn too much time to collect the articles for the Vaults.
Thus, we need to see what Shawn wants to do.
Basically, I think the priority is to keep the community in a place where we can contribute to the Vaults through the discussions in addition to the more the formalized submission (e.g., the fan GAZ projects).
Thus, while I appreciate Rhialto's prompt reaction, I'd rather post in a board that Shawn monitored.
Also, if we decide to move to a new board (something which I'd likely support, assuming there's no conflict with the above priority), we should consider whether we prefer to move into an existing community (EN World or Dragonsfoot, even though latter is more focused on AD&D 1e and original D&D and the former is mostly 3e and industry-oriented), or create a new community (in this case we should decide whether it is possible/desirable to have a comprehensive "other worlds" forum, or it is better to focus on Mystara alone).
All in all, it's not an easy decision.
GP
sadly, the gleemax boards no longer has a place for Mystara. That means it will have to be somewhere other than gleemax.
If there is an alternative forum already set up and ready to welcome the community, then thats fine, as long as someone tells shawn where to look. But it seems the existing alternatives have their own pre-conditions that make them suboptimal.
Otherwise, well, Im ready and set up to go.
Basically, I think the priority is to keep the community in a place where we can contribute to the Vaults through the discussions in addition to the more the formalized submission (e.g., the fan GAZ projects).
Thus, while I appreciate Rhialto's prompt reaction, I'd rather post in a board that Shawn monitored.
Agreed. However, I see no reason why we cant make Shawn a moderator of Rhialto's board. OTOH if you are saying that Shawn should be responsible for maintaining the boards, I would say that depends on what Shawn wants.
Obviously his voice will count in this.
Also, if we decide to move to a new board (something which I'd likely support, assuming there's no conflict with the above priority), we should consider whether we prefer to move into an existing community (EN World or Dragonsfoot, even though latter is more focused on AD&D 1e and original D&D and the former is mostly 3e and industry-oriented), or create a new community (in this case we should decide whether it is possible/desirable to have a comprehensive "other worlds" forum, or it is better to focus on Mystara alone).
Due to the edition bias of both ENWorld and DF I dont think either of those are ideal.
The Wayfarer's Inn also made a generous offer of inviting us there.
I guess a Mystara only forum would be fun, but joining with the other worlds would give us more people to drawn on. It would also help recreate the feeling we had at the old boards here. This part may actually work itself out without us making any decision though. It is possible that the other settings may scatter regardless of what we do. We could end up having Rhialto's become a Mystara only forum even if that wasn't what we planned.
All in all, it's not an easy decision.
I agree. I hope more people will speak up. I guess what will probably happen is that there will be some experimentation over the next few months before we eventually settle on something.
Havard
Agreed. However, I see no reason why we cant make Shawn a moderator of Rhialto's board. OTOH if you are saying that Shawn should be responsible for maintaining the boards, I would say that depends on what Shawn wants.
No, I'm saying neither. What I mean is that Shawn likely has limited time to devote to culling articles from the MMB/MML to put in the Vaults, so he'll not be able to regularly read several boards (e.g., this one and Rhialto's).
So, the primary factor in deciding which board to use should be Shawn's ability to use it as the main feed for the Vaults.
Due to the edition bias of both ENWorld and DF I dont think either of those are ideal.
The Wayfarer's Inn also made a generous offer of inviting us there.
I suppose you're right on ENWorld and DF. Wayfarer's Inn doesn't strike me as an especially interesting possibility -- I'd rather have an independent board such as Rhialto's.
I guess a Mystara only forum would be fun, but joining with the other worlds would give us more people to drawn on.
That may not be possible, though: the Birthright and Ravenloft official fan site already have their own message boards, and the Dark Sun people are looking iinto the possibility of adding a message board to athas.org. Greyhawk doesn't seem to have an official fan site, but the largest GH site (Canonfire) has a message board. Planescape has forums at Planewalker.com, which leaves only Alternity and Spelljammer, which have limited public, and Dragonlance.
So I suppose it's more likely we'll have to move on our own.
GP
I was already disappointed of WotC's management of D&D, and this event only reinforces what I thought...
Anyway, I agree that IF the Mystara community has not other chance but move the priorities are (a) find a place where Shawn's able to collect easily informations as before, and (b) the community stays - mostly, at least - intact in number.
Then, after the destruction of their beloved world and empire and the scattering of their fellows, some brave Alphatian wizards set out around other planes of existance to find a new, suitable home for their surviving kins and where to build a new home...
We all know what they're going to find. ;)
Good luck, Mystara fans!
Due to the edition bias of both ENWorld and DF I dont think either of those are ideal.
Actually, put DF back on the list. I made a pretty big fuss over there yesterday. Today I had a PM from one of the former mods who has told me that the current mods and the site owner, Steve, are discussing the possibility of allowing Mystara discussion without a pre-3e rules requirement. I don't know where this will go. It may turn out to be nothing in the end. It's certainly more than I ever thought would happen and I'm thankful they are considering it.
--Ray.
As I said in the above post, the MML is not exactly visible (I can't find a link to the archive page anymore in the community pages). We should try to make it more easy to reach (e.g., copying the link in the first post of this thread, and keeping the thread active).
Again, not really knowing all that much about how forums work, would/is it possible to somehow link forums to a Mailing List? Either through direct posting, or else via archiving Digests for sending to the ML? If such an option were viable, maybe a new Mystara forum with associated MML would be a good alternative in any case.
No, I'm saying neither. What I mean is that Shawn likely has limited time to devote to culling articles from the MMB/MML to put in the Vaults, so he'll not be able to regularly read several boards (e.g., this one and Rhialto's).
Perhaps a responsibility of the new board mod could be the archiving of pertinent information to send to Shawn? Or else a couple of archivers could volunteer to assist with that duty to help relieve the load?
But I do agree that we shouldn't be jumping back and forth between multiple boards.
Hey, thanks mate!
I agree. DF was one of the first places that came to my mind, but we need a place where all rulesets are allowed.
Since Stanles hasn't yet offered to host something on Pandius, I am thinking he may be reluctant to do so even if allowed to by WotC.
I also think having the forum set up somewhere else will let Stanles focus on updating the Vaults. Any place might be good enough if it is endorsed by Pandius. Shawn maybe you could set up a banner or something indicating THE place to discuss Mystara when we find a new place?
For now, I guess GP is right that returning to the MML will be a good idea, and ofcourse posting here, letting everyone know that we exist.
50 active threads seems wild. I greatly prefer much more slow moving forums than that.
Havard
Well yes primarily I'm not offering to host such a thing, because it's something that I'm not allowed to do*, although it's not something that I have the technical skill to do regardless.
*well the actual wording is that "Official sites must not create their own community sections that duplicate those services and features offered by the Wizards of the Coast website."
I agree that if this is the current state of affairs here at WotC, maybe we should look into starting a Mystara forum elsewhere. It's unfortunate, since it was so much easier in a lot of ways to have things here.
In the meanwhile, I'd encourage everyone to try and dig up and archive all the old threads that were most meaningful to you (many of them contained very useful stuff that may or may not necessarily have made it to Shawn's site, if only via discussions).
EDIT- Just looking over the DF forums, it looks like that might not be the best alternative, since they are pretty hardcore about no 3E discussion thereupon (admittedly, rules aspects don't enter into our discussions that much, relative to how often we post, but I think allowing for the possibility of all rules- even *shudder* 4E- shouldn't be prohibited).
Maybe we can just get a forum of our own somewhere (not sure how/where offhand, not really familiar with the logistics, though I'm certainly going to look into it), and Shawn could provide a linky on the Vaults?
I would personally encourage us to try and stick things out here, and try and use our voice to get things back to normal. The old arguments that activity on these boards for these other worlds is perhaps the most visible to Wizards and therefore if anything is going to have impact then that will is an argument that I still think is valid. Of course if the community moves elsewhere then I'll follow along to.
That may not be possible, though: the Birthright and Ravenloft official fan site already have their own message boards, and the Dark Sun people are looking iinto the possibility of adding a message board to athas.org. Greyhawk doesn't seem to have an official fan site, but the largest GH site (Canonfire) has a message board. Planescape has forums at Planewalker.com, which leaves only Alternity and Spelljammer, which have limited public, and Dragonlance.
So I suppose it's more likely we'll have to move on our own.
GP
whilst I've never been convinced by the argument just because other people are doing something that they probably shouldn't be, that's a good enough reason to also do it it does at least seem that this aspect of the official homepage agreement is not strictly enforced.
Another part of said agreement, namely that Wizards of the Coast agrees to: ... b.) Establish a direct link from the Wizards of the Coast web page to the official fan site also seems to have fallen by the wayside ... hmmm.
How on earth did Wizards think we were going to react to this decision? What passed for good decision-making when they thought "hey, let's put all the diverse worlds, fans questions and concerns into a single forum!"
Obviously common-sense didn't factor into this process, unless they knew that our response would be to take our fandom elsewhere and establish our own forums. I was mystified when I used the usual entry point and couldn't find the usual D&D link that I use, there was only the 4e one.
Havard, I think the suggestion of tagging posts is a good one and perhaps it shouldn't just be the Mystatra people doing it. If we're going to make this work, we all need ot take responsibility for organising the information here. The downside will be that as all the forums are in one place, post headings will easily slip onto the second page, making it a little harder to locate them, so thread subscription almost becomes a necessity.
Havard, I think the suggestion of tagging posts is a good one and perhaps it shouldn't just be the Mystatra people doing it.
such a good idea it makes one wonder why they didn't think of that one before lumping everything together.
Edit:
Great...
http://forums.gleemax.com/announcement.php?f=720
If you have any ideas on the D&D forum reorganization, please join the discussion in the D&D Community Business forum: http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=695
Thanks,
-Mike
But http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=695 is a broken link.
I'd like to hear everyones reactions to the merging of the boards.
It stinks. That's my reaction.
whilst I've never been convinced by the argument just because other people are doing something that they probably shouldn't be, that's a good enough reason to also do it it does at least seem that this aspect of the official homepage agreement is not strictly enforced.
Of course. We don't need to have the board on pandius.com (indeed, several of those I listed are not on the official fan websites).
What I'm trying to say is that I agree with Zendrolion's words herebelow:
Anyway, I agree that IF the Mystara community has not other chance but move the priorities are (a) find a place where Shawn's able to collect easily informations as before, and (b) the community stays - mostly, at least - intact in number.
GP
Again, not really knowing all that much about how forums work, would/is it possible to somehow link forums to a Mailing List? Either through direct posting, or else via archiving Digests for sending to the ML? If such an option were viable, maybe a new Mystara forum with associated MML would be a good alternative in any case.
The MML already has a web interface. It's not as friendly or visually appealing as a forum, though, and it's certainly not easy to reach.
What you propose is not easy, because mailing lists and forums have different threading structures (branching vs linear). Typical web interfaces for mailing lists (e.g., Google Groups or Yahoo Groups) are quite different from typical forum interfaces (phpBB or the like), and the same goes for storage (IIRC).
GP
No, I'm saying neither. What I mean is that Shawn likely has limited time to devote to culling articles from the MMB/MML to put in the Vaults, so he'll not be able to regularly read several boards (e.g., this one and Rhialto's).
So, the primary factor in deciding which board to use should be Shawn's ability to use it as the main feed for the Vaults.
I agree with this concern. IMO this is an argument for moving the core activity to a separate board, as this place would be problematic for Shawn. If we make Rhialto's boards the new core home for Mystara, we should still use this place as a showcase forum for our setting, but we should make summaries of any threads posted here and present them to Rhialto's board so Shawn doesn't have to monitor both places.
Shawn, feel free to comment if I am making too many assumptions on your behalf here
I suppose you're right on ENWorld and DF. Wayfarer's Inn doesn't strike me as an especially interesting possibility -- I'd rather have an independent board such as Rhialto's.
The good things about the Wayfarer's is that Rafe the owner is a groovy guy who will probably make a big effort to accomodate us. Also Frank Mentzer and some of the original Blackmoor players are members. OTOH, alot of Mystarans have already moved to Rhialto's place so maybe bringing up too many alternatives would only confuse things.
That may not be possible, though: the Birthright and Ravenloft official fan site already have their own message boards, and the Dark Sun people are looking iinto the possibility of adding a message board to athas.org. Greyhawk doesn't seem to have an official fan site, but the largest GH site (Canonfire) has a message board. Planescape has forums at Planewalker.com, which leaves only Alternity and Spelljammer, which have limited public, and Dragonlance.
So I suppose it's more likely we'll have to move on our own.
Dragonlance also has one or two other forums, meaning we only have Mystara, Spelljammer, Alternity and perhaps D20 Modern.
Right now I am leaning towards giving Rhialto's a clear Mystara profile. If it can't be a home for most of the worlds, I'd say we carve out a nice home for ourselves. Not saying we couldn't provide a place for discussions for smaller settings, but unless they can man up a following to rival ours, it seems clear that we should take the leadership.
Once we decide which place should become the main Mystara Forum, we should have announcements and reminders of this posted on the Vaults, here and on other forums and websites. I will ofcourse make a big announcement on my own site what what that may count.
BTW: It is so nice to see everyone's comments in this thread!
Havard
I agree with this concern. IMO this is an argument for moving the core activity to a separate board, as this place would be problematic for Shawn. If we make Rhialto's boards the new core home for Mystara, we should still use this place as a showcase forum for our setting, but we should make summaries of any threads posted here and present them to Rhialto's board so Shawn doesn't have to monitor both places.
Shawn, feel free to comment if I am making too many assumptions on your behalf here
well yes these boards might be a bit more work now, although I don't think they should be abandoned. And anyway my opinion one way or the other is still just one person amongst the whole community.
Please flag everything [Mystara] so us Mystaraphiles can keep track of things. I shudder to think of all the threads that maybe lost by this. This turn of events is unlikely to encourage me to de-lurk and post more...
Thank you, to all of you keeping Mystara alive.
GW
anyway my opinion one way or the other is still just one person amongst the whole community.
I don't think the rest of us think of you that way. It's kinda like SCotUS. You're the Chief Justice and thus first among equals. It's very important to us what you think.
--Ray.
What you propose is not easy, because mailing lists and forums have different threading structures (branching vs linear). Typical web interfaces for mailing lists (e.g., Google Groups or Yahoo Groups) are quite different from typical forum interfaces (phpBB or the like), and the same goes for storage (IIRC).
Yeah, that was my fear. I really like the Board format just because of all the different options- including (and perhaps especially) the ability to add graphical elements. That's my big reason for wanting to see some sort of Board format remain, in addition to the Mailing List. If it were possible to combine them, that would be ideal, but I guess it won't be that simple.
I'm absolutely gutted.
I come back to find the state of affairs deteriorated even worse. Can I get a link to the MML I didn't see it earlier, and would like to still be able to have some knowledge of what is going on.
Here it is:
http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/mystara-l.html
GP
P.S.: Havard, could you edit your first post to include the above link?
Yeah, that was my fear. I really like the Board format just because of all the different options- including (and perhaps especially) the ability to add graphical elements. That's my big reason for wanting to see some sort of Board format remain, in addition to the Mailing List. If it were possible to combine them, that would be ideal, but I guess it won't be that simple.
Uhm, yes. Well, Rhialto's board seems to be getting some consensus. I hope we'll find some convergence in a short time.
GP
Here it is:
http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/mystara-l.html
GP
P.S.: Havard, could you edit your first post to include the above link?
Done
Havard
I'm a big DF fan, but I understand the "edition issue." My vote is to port to Rhialto's boards. My concern is to not let debate drag on too long, if we consolidate over there (and Rhialto has the ability to give other folks mod authority if necessary), then we can rebuild there and not have to sweat the silly whims of WotC.
FWIW, I'm repeating Rhialto's link here.
http://www.lajzar.co.uk/bb/index.php
Although I don't frequent the WOTC boards that often, I did enjoy the Mystara-specific forum. I'm annoyed but not surprised.
I'm a big DF fan, but I understand the "edition issue." My vote is to port to Rhialto's boards. My concern is to not let debate drag on too long, if we consolidate over there (and Rhialto has the ability to give other folks mod authority if necessary), then we can rebuild there and not have to sweat the silly whims of WotC.
FWIW, I'm repeating Rhialto's link here.
http://www.lajzar.co.uk/bb/index.php
Well spoken Kengar.
I think the Piazza (Rhialto's boards) is pretty much a done deal as the new home for Mystarans (Besides the MML) for the future. I hope everyone will make the move there.
I also encourage further posting here as this is a good place to market ourselves. I recommend that everyone put include the Piazza in their signature files so as many people as possible can find it.
Havard
Mystara is old school and should only be updated by old schoolers who grew up playing the B and X modules, not a corporation interested only in money.
Think about it. If WotC supports Mystara, there will be a high probability it will suddenly be overpopulated with tieflings and dragonborn. It would not feel like Mystara should feel, which just screams out 1970's Tolkien-clone era fantasy. I don't want Mystara to ever be modified to match the 4e PHB just to sell more copies of it to Generation Y.
I actually fear for Dark Sun and Spelljammer, after seeing what happened to the Forgotten Realms.
This does seem to suggest that WoTC doesn't care about Mystara.
They don't really. Although maybe they will turn their attention to Mystara once they have finsihed destroying the Realms. Be grateful they leave you alone
Hope you don't mind that I copied your sig. I like it better than mine!
Hey, Hugin-
Hope you don't mind that I copied your sig. I like it better than mine!
Me too, sorta..
Havard
Weird. I seem to have the Haven of signatures- it's there one minute, gone the next...
Signatures only appear once per page
Havard
Signatures only appear once per page
Aha! Mystery solved, Scooby Doo!