Lessons learned... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Lessons learned...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gawain_viii
May 21, 2008 21:59:03 If there are a few things that I've learned in the four years since I enlisted into the military its that (1) there is a reason for everything, even if (2) the common person doesn't understand. In most instances (3) when the common person doesn't understand it's because they don't have all the pertinent data.

Ok, so it's pretty crappy that this reorganization was thrown upon each of us and, at least for the time being, we'll have to deal with a bit of lost identity--but another lesson from the military--this one from the Air Force--is that if we are to succeed and thrive in a changing environment for the years to come, we must learn to overcome and adapt: only by these means will be continue to exist as we do today.

Ok, so that one's a bit of propaganda--but the argument is valid. Instead of moaning and complaining, we chould utilize this new LARGER community to project a unified voice to WotC, Gleemax, and Community Mgt.

In that vein, I say we all stop [female dogging] to each other and just tag our posts with the proper setting: GH, DS, DL, RL, PS, SJ, BR, or MYSTARA (see, guys? we are the biggest setting--everyone else has only 2 letters).

This can even give us the oportunity to have intra-setting discussions on topics like cosmology--look for the good things, because if you just look at the bad you'll only get [urinated] off, and that's not good for your blood pressure.

Okay, I'm done with my anti-rant.

Roger
#2
Greyson
May 22, 2008 0:50:21 Roger, good post. Thanks for sharing your patient and mature comments. Even-tempered comments like yours are actually what separate our older setting users from others. I've never seen acrimony or huge flame wars on our older setting boards. I've posted as a total, clueless, newbie on the Mystara board and got helpful answers. Same with the old Ravenloft and Dragonlance boards. Good people have inhabited these boards - credit to all of us who game in the "old school" settings.

And yes, this is a great opportunity to expose our disparate settings to each other. I've never touched Dark Sun or Birthright - ever. Maybe now I'll get a chance to poke my head into a thread or two of these different places.

So, here goes the great experiment in the Other Published Worlds soup that Wizards of the Coast has created.

Oh, I'm from the Greyhawk crowd, by the way. Been there since The Temple of Elemental Evil came out in 1986. But, as noted above, I've dabbled in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Mystara and Eberron. My new great love is actually Pathfinder. I still stick up for my alma mater, though - Greyhawk.

Happy gaming and coexisting here.
#3
Brom_Blackforge
May 22, 2008 13:53:01 Roger, good point. I will say, though, that before we get all caught up in making that silk purse out of the sow's ear we've been handed, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to let the powers that be know that we don't like what they've come up with. This isn't the military, and we don't have to just follow orders. If we leave, there's nothing they can do about it. So, if they have a good reason for this, then the best thing would be for them to come on here and explain to us what that good reason is. That will make it easier for us all to get on with the positive stuff that you wrote about.
#4
agathokles
May 22, 2008 15:23:29
If there are a few things that I've learned in the four years since I enlisted into the military its that (1) there is a reason for everything, even if (2) the common person doesn't understand. In most instances (3) when the common person doesn't understand it's because they don't have all the pertinent data.

This isn't the army, Roger, and we're not enlisted (well, at least I'm not). So, it's not like we're forced to post here -- if the quality of service drops, we simply move somewhere else.

Also, note that it is totally irrelevant whether WotC had a reason for the "re-organization" or they just randomly rolled it. What matters is the effect it has on the quality of the service provided. The simple fact that we would have to keep track of posts by hand marks a clear decrease in the quality level.

And, BTW, if we wanted to have a larger community we would have posted in the Out Of Print board which served (and still serves) exactly that purpose.

GP
#5
orc_kirin
May 22, 2008 16:19:55 An unproductive post have been removed. along with the replies it spawned.

A few reminders:

* Vulgarity, even when masked is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

* Baiting or belittling other patrons also violates the Code of Conduct.

http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
#6
Greyson
May 22, 2008 19:12:05
An unproductive post have been removed. along with the replies it spawned.

I certainly hope that our right to voice our frustration is not curtailed. Sure, it is incumbent on posters to be tactful and courteous. But, our message must be conveyed to Wizards of the Coast with abundant clarity: This consolidation of the Other Worlds forums was a horrendously bad decision and short-sighted in the extreme.

It feels like Wizards of the Coast has lifted a big middle finger to the myriad patrons and users of legacy settings, carelessly wiping out disparate setting identities that were created over years of work. I hope that Wizards of the Coast is not so indifferent as to not understand the magnitude and acuteness of the frustration they have caused by ambushing a segment of its customers like this.

Wizards of the Coast, as custodian of these classic settings, has failed in its duty to protect the identity of its classic settings in its own online community. And further, they have insulted the patrons and supporters of those settings. Then, they have the nerve to send out their apologists to assert the need for specific, quantified usage that seems arbitrary and not based on any historical data - forgetting about the two to three decade's worth of patronage that these settings have enjoyed.

Given all of this, I think we can give the Code of Conduct mantra a rest, and apply some understanding of how much a generation of gamers has effectively been shown the door. Yeah, people are gonna swear and express their disappointment and outrage - what did you expect?

Again, I call for the former arrangement of the Other Worlds forums to be restored without talk and excuses of bandwidth, metrics or number of posts per day. Allow us to come back "home."
#7
culture20
May 22, 2008 19:28:23 Thanks for keeping things civil, WizO, you've got your work cut out for you for a bit. ;)

Back to topic, I think one of the lessons learned for WoTC/Gleemax is that providing warnings is _useful_. We were warned ahead of time with other major board changes in the past; this one was out of the blue, and seems to be generating ill will (even in myself) as a result.
#8
gawain_viii
May 22, 2008 21:41:20
I certainly hope that our right to voice our frustration is not curtailed. Sure, it is incumbent on posters to be tactful and courteous. But, our message must be conveyed to Wizards of the Coast with abundant clarity.

The removed post was quite irrational and vulgar. Whoever made the post had created a new account, with a blatantly obscene username just to make that post. The poster used leet-speak to bypass the "censor sensors".

Good job KiRin,
Roger

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gawain_viii May 21, 2008 21:59:03	If there are a few things that I've learned in the four years since I enlisted into the military its that (1) there is a reason for everything, even if (2) the common person doesn't understand. In most instances (3) when the common person doesn't understand it's because they don't have all the pertinent data. Ok, so it's pretty crappy that this reorganization was thrown upon each of us and, at least for the time being, we'll have to deal with a bit of lost identity--but another lesson from the military--this one from the Air Force--is that if we are to succeed and thrive in a changing environment for the years to come, we must learn to overcome and adapt: only by these means will be continue to exist as we do today. Ok, so that one's a bit of propaganda--but the argument is valid. Instead of moaning and complaining, we chould utilize this new LARGER community to project a unified voice to WotC, Gleemax, and Community Mgt. In that vein, I say we all stop [female dogging] to each other and just tag our posts with the proper setting: GH, DS, DL, RL, PS, SJ, BR, or MYSTARA (see, guys? we are the biggest setting--everyone else has only 2 letters). This can even give us the oportunity to have intra-setting discussions on topics like cosmology--look for the good things, because if you just look at the bad you'll only get [urinated] off, and that's not good for your blood pressure. Okay, I'm done with my anti-rant. Roger
#2 Greyson May 22, 2008 0:50:21	Roger, good post. Thanks for sharing your patient and mature comments. Even-tempered comments like yours are actually what separate our older setting users from others. I've never seen acrimony or huge flame wars on our older setting boards. I've posted as a total, clueless, newbie on the Mystara board and got helpful answers. Same with the old Ravenloft and Dragonlance boards. Good people have inhabited these boards - credit to all of us who game in the "old school" settings. And yes, this is a great opportunity to expose our disparate settings to each other. I've never touched Dark Sun or Birthright - ever. Maybe now I'll get a chance to poke my head into a thread or two of these different places. So, here goes the great experiment in the Other Published Worlds soup that Wizards of the Coast has created. Oh, I'm from the Greyhawk crowd, by the way. Been there since The Temple of Elemental Evil came out in 1986. But, as noted above, I've dabbled in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Mystara and Eberron. My new great love is actually Pathfinder. I still stick up for my alma mater, though - Greyhawk. Happy gaming and coexisting here.
#3 Brom_Blackforge May 22, 2008 13:53:01	Roger, good point. I will say, though, that before we get all caught up in making that silk purse out of the sow's ear we've been handed, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to let the powers that be know that we don't like what they've come up with. This isn't the military, and we don't have to just follow orders. If we leave, there's nothing they can do about it. So, if they have a good reason for this, then the best thing would be for them to come on here and explain to us what that good reason is. That will make it easier for us all to get on with the positive stuff that you wrote about.
#4 agathokles May 22, 2008 15:23:29	If there are a few things that I've learned in the four years since I enlisted into the military its that (1) there is a reason for everything, even if (2) the common person doesn't understand. In most instances (3) when the common person doesn't understand it's because they don't have all the pertinent data. This isn't the army, Roger, and we're not enlisted (well, at least I'm not). So, it's not like we're forced to post here -- if the quality of service drops, we simply move somewhere else. Also, note that it is totally irrelevant whether WotC had a reason for the "re-organization" or they just randomly rolled it. What matters is the effect it has on the quality of the service provided. The simple fact that we would have to keep track of posts by hand marks a clear decrease in the quality level. And, BTW, if we wanted to have a larger community we would have posted in the Out Of Print board which served (and still serves) exactly that purpose. GP
#5 orc_kirin May 22, 2008 16:19:55	An unproductive post have been removed. along with the replies it spawned. A few reminders: * Vulgarity, even when masked is a violation of the Code of Conduct. * Baiting or belittling other patrons also violates the Code of Conduct. http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
#6 Greyson May 22, 2008 19:12:05	An unproductive post have been removed. along with the replies it spawned. I certainly hope that our right to voice our frustration is not curtailed. Sure, it is incumbent on posters to be tactful and courteous. But, our message must be conveyed to Wizards of the Coast with abundant clarity: This consolidation of the Other Worlds forums was a horrendously bad decision and short-sighted in the extreme. It feels like Wizards of the Coast has lifted a big middle finger to the myriad patrons and users of legacy settings, carelessly wiping out disparate setting identities that were created over years of work. I hope that Wizards of the Coast is not so indifferent as to not understand the magnitude and acuteness of the frustration they have caused by ambushing a segment of its customers like this. Wizards of the Coast, as custodian of these classic settings, has failed in its duty to protect the identity of its classic settings in its own online community. And further, they have insulted the patrons and supporters of those settings. Then, they have the nerve to send out their apologists to assert the need for specific, quantified usage that seems arbitrary and not based on any historical data - forgetting about the two to three decade's worth of patronage that these settings have enjoyed. Given all of this, I think we can give the Code of Conduct mantra a rest, and apply some understanding of how much a generation of gamers has effectively been shown the door. Yeah, people are gonna swear and express their disappointment and outrage - what did you expect? Again, I call for the former arrangement of the Other Worlds forums to be restored without talk and excuses of bandwidth, metrics or number of posts per day. Allow us to come back "home."
#7 culture20 May 22, 2008 19:28:23	Thanks for keeping things civil, WizO, you've got your work cut out for you for a bit. ;) Back to topic, I think one of the lessons learned for WoTC/Gleemax is that providing warnings is _useful_. We were warned ahead of time with other major board changes in the past; this one was out of the blue, and seems to be generating ill will (even in myself) as a result.
#8 gawain_viii May 22, 2008 21:41:20	I certainly hope that our right to voice our frustration is not curtailed. Sure, it is incumbent on posters to be tactful and courteous. But, our message must be conveyed to Wizards of the Coast with abundant clarity. The removed post was quite irrational and vulgar. Whoever made the post had created a new account, with a blatantly obscene username just to make that post. The poster used leet-speak to bypass the "censor sensors". Good job KiRin, Roger