Personally, I'm still trying to finish all 3.5 beta products (and to release the final 3.5 Core Rules) before even thinking about converting.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16031504#post16031504
Mantis-like desert nomads with an alien perspective.
Racial Traits:
Average Height: 6’-7’2”
Average Weight: 125-250 lbs.
Ability Scores: +2 Costitution, +2 Dexterity
Size: Medium
Speed: 8 squares
Vision: Darkvision
Languages: Common, Thri-Kreen
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Nature, Proficiency Gythka, Chatka
Special: May not wear normal armor, must have all armor custom made.
Multi-Limbed: Thri-kreen have six limbs: two are used as legs, two are primary arms, and two are secondary arms. The thri-kreen gains +1 to AC when wielding two weapons, and changing/drawing weapons and retrieving/stowing items are free actions for the thri-kreen. They may carry an item in all four arms, but are still limited to one attack per round unless they have a power that changes this.
Trance: Thri-kreen need only 4 hours of rest during an extended rest. During this time, they remain partially aware of their surroundings, taking a -5 penalty on Perception tests.
Poisonous Bite * Thri-Kreen Racial Power
While they usually rely on weapons, the thri-kreen also has a poisonous bite.
Encounter * Minor Action * Poison
Attack: COS+2 vs. AC
Damage: 1d4+COS
Effect: The thri-kreen makes a bite attack in addition to its other attacks. In addition to damage, the target takes ongoing 2 poison damage (save ends).
Racial Feats:
Crystal Gland
*Thri-Kreen only By sacrificing its ability to use the poison in its bite attack for 24 hours, the Thri-Kreen can generate a sticky substance that hardens in 24 hours to the strength of steel. During the 24 hour time the Crystal can be shaped into any form the Thri-Kreen chooses. The amount generated is enough to create a small dagger or Chatka, the substance cannot be maintained in its glue form.
Making larger items takes building the item in stages, and the Thri-Kreen can only generate his CON bonus in days each month.
Tier: Heroic
Improved Poison Bite
The target takes ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends).
Tier: Paragon
Thri-Kreen Equipment:
Weapon Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties
Gythka +2 1d6 6/12 NA 1lbs Light Blade One-Handed, thown
Chatka +2 2d4 - NA 5lbs Pole Arm Two- HandedReach
Also, a little bit of talk on http://arena.athas.org/
I think most of us are still digesting.
Not sure where to begin on a Dragon or Avangion probably have a think once Psionics are released. Clerics could be a problem to convert along with defiling and healing surges really fit the DS setting.
I like 4th ed but its alot of work to convert over. Alot of things are going to have to be dumbed down to fit (Half Giants, Kreen).
Not sure where to begin on a Dragon or Avangion probably have a think once Psionics are released. Clerics could be a problem to convert along with defiling and healing surges really fit the DS setting.
It does seem like it would be difficult to convert 2e/3e rules for DS into the new 4e rules, (worse even that 2e->3e), so perhaps instead we shouldn't convert, but rather reinvent.
Instead of slavishly copying the rules and forcing a square peg into a round hole, now is yet another chance to take the (good parts of the) flavor and rebuild the rules around them.
Not that I know how to do that off the top of my head! :D
I pity tha foo who tries to convert ToA! Dragons, Avangions, Elemental Clerics, Spirits of the Land would likely be epic destinies aimed at members of the arcane classes (not just wizards maybe?) who have chosen some sort of multiclass option with a psychic-powered class. Since NPCs are by default exception built, the SKs, etc wouldn't have to follow the same rules, and in fact should NOT follow the same rules.
Likewise there is room for other epic destinies based on the material from DK (members of the Order, real warlords, etc).
Defiling could be the default, in that all spells defile, but to get a real benefit from it you need to use a minor encounter (at-will?) power that grants say a +1 to attacks or damage. This paves the way to feats or other powers that increase its potency. Conversely you could have feats that present aspects of preserving (which I can't think of at the moment).
I'm not sure what to do about the races, but the possibility of racial feats and powers makes the options more appealing since you don't have to front-load everything. Basic thri-kreen would be on par with say dragonborn, but by spending some effort on racial feats they could increase their poison potency or make dasl, or maybe gain wings, etc.
Many of the classes seem to port over directly, and paladins might just be able to be turned into templars with some appropriate flavor modifications. Then again, we could reserve the name "templar" as a title and just use the various classes to model different kinds of templars with the paladin class representing the more martial aspected ones.
Just some thoughts...
It does seem like it would be difficult to convert 2e/3e rules for DS into the new 4e rules, (worse even that 2e->3e), so perhaps instead we shouldn't convert, but rather reinvent.
Instead of slavishly copying the rules and forcing a square peg into a round hole, now is yet another chance to take the (good parts of the) flavor and rebuild the rules around them.
Not that I know how to do that off the top of my head! :D
This is what I was advocating in 3.5. In 4th ed I woul probably stat out the Dragons as NPCs and give them the Wizard Template and later the Psion one.
Gladiator and Templar may have to become titles or feats for martial type characers and clerics, with the Paladin becoming a Templar Knight. Dragonborn could be renamed Dray and have their flavour text changed.
I would start small anyway and concentrate on getting out a small rulebook beta like Paizo did with Pathfinder. 64 pages or there abouts and maybe get everyone to contribute something even if its only a feat or race conversion.
I would start small anyway and concentrate on getting out a small rulebook beta like Paizo did with Pathfinder. 64 pages or there abouts and maybe get everyone to contribute something even if its only a feat or race conversion.
Well if you've got an extra copy of the 4e books laying around I'll be happy to help! ;)
Well if you've got an extra copy of the 4e books laying around I'll be happy to help! ;)
I thought about this some more and I was thinking about Avangions/Dragons. For PCs I would make an epic destin caled Dragon Ascendent or something like that where you get a variety of powerz or whatever. For full on Dragons a'la the Sorcerer Kings I would make them NPC monsters using the rules in the DMG to design a beastie and probably add the wizard Template and later on the Psionic Template once psionics is done.. Borys would be similar in power to Orcus in the MM.
I don't have any spare 4th ed stuff but PDFs were leaked online apparently. I could start converting stuff if theres demand for it and you can write fluff if you want and I can focus on mechanics. What do people think of the Dragonborn becoming Dray on Athas- change the fluff but mechanically leave them as is from the PHB?
I thought about this some more and I was thinking about Avangions/Dragons. For PCs I would make an epic destin caled Dragon Ascendent or something like that where you get a variety of powerz or whatever. For full on Dragons a'la the Sorcerer Kings I would make them NPC monsters using the rules in the DMG to design a beastie and probably add the wizard Template and later on the Psionic Template once psionics is done.. Borys would be similar in power to Orcus in the MM.
That sounds like what I was thinking of too. I don't know the relative power of the high level monsters though. Are there things tougher than Orcus (i.e. something for Rajaat to aspire to that isn't a TPK everytime)?
I don't have any spare 4th ed stuff but PDFs were leaked online apparently. I could start converting stuff if theres demand for it and you can write fluff if you want and I can focus on mechanics. What do people think of the Dragonborn becoming Dray on Athas- change the fluff but mechanically leave them as is from the PHB?
Well I was kidding, and I don't feel like being sued for downloading a PDF!
As for Dragonborn/Dray, I'm not sure they're a good fit. Dray don't have breath weapons, and to me never really seemed like big brawny types.
That sounds like what I was thinking of too. I don't know the relative power of the high level monsters though. Are there things tougher than Orcus (i.e. something for Rajaat to aspire to that isn't a TPK everytime)?
Well I was kidding, and I don't feel like being sued for downloading a PDF!
As for Dragonborn/Dray, I'm not sure they're a good fit. Dray don't have breath weapons, and to me never really seemed like big brawny types.
Orcus is the toughest monster in the MM and he is around level 33 or 34. I think Dragons are reasonably low in level being around 3-29. Note things in 4th ed have alot more hit points. Level 2 Zombies and Skelitons have around 40+ hit points and a level 3 young white Dragon have somehting like 200 hit points.
Regarding Dray any Dray designed is going to be compared to a Dragonborn. Just give Dray a breath weapon, use the Dragonborn and change the weight of the Dragonborn. I'm really lazy and love modifying work others have done. Heres my version of the 3.5 Kaisharga's I used in my games as opposed to Athas.orgs version I don't like so much.
Lich Varient.
On Athas Lichs are called Kaisharga.
Lose: Phylactery
Gain: Unholy toughness. Gain your charisma modifier to your hit points per hit dice.
The Dracolich template was modified the same way. Dray= Dragonborn change the fluff maybe the weight as well and I don't think the world will end if the Dray gain a breath weapon. Mul is an easy convert, but Half Giants may have to be dumbed down alot tom ake them playable or done as an NPC monster. unless you want to stat them out as a PC for a NPC half Giant I would just use an Ogres stats and change the physical description. A PC Half Giant would probably be +4 strength and I would give a Mul +2 strength and +2 con and then do the rest of their racial abiliites and powerz.
Poisonous Bite * Thri-Kreen Racial Power...
Personally, I would have made the poisonous bite the feat power, and made the basic racial power something along the lines of a multi-attack. Something like encounter/weapon, hit deals 4(W) with light weapons or 2(W) with two-handed weapons? I also wonder if the Crystal Gland feat is something that could be represented by a thri-kreen-only ritual-- I like the time-and-cost model rituals use, and it would free that design space up for super-jumping feats.
Or Dregoth finally got around to creating third generation dray, now with mighty fighting breath weapon action. :D
Do they get the kung fu action grip this time around, or do we have to wait for the fourth generation?