I've over the past four or so days been working on conversion of the Grand Conjunction series to 4e and thought second or third or nineteenth opinions could be useful both for feedback and because as a collaborative effort, more gets done.
I'll go ahead and toss my first attempt in the ring.
Half-Vistani
Racial traits
Average Height: 5'6-6'2
Average Weight: 135-220 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 wis, +2 dex
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Outcast rating: 2
Languages: Common, patterna or one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 nature, by tribe
Evil Eye: Gain Evil eye as an encounter power
Tribal Bloodline: Giogoto gain benefits based on their bloodline. Further, they count as both human and vistani for the sake of items and feats.
Canjar: +2 arcana. Ritual casting feat
Corvara: +2 insight, thief's luck.
Equaar: +2 endurance. base speed 7
Kamii: +2 streetwise. +5 to saving throws against poison
Naiat: +2 diplomacy. Base outcast rating of 0.
Vatraska: +2 heal. When using a power with the healing keyword, the Vatraska adds their INT to the amount healed.
Zarovan: +2 history. and Vistani insight.
Play a half-vistani if you want...
.....to be a mysterious outsider with an understanding of the land
.....be a gypsy
.....be a member of a race that favors the rogue, warlock, and ranger classes
Knight of the Raven
“The raven is not a god – it’s a symbol. A symbol of virtue, of light in the darkness, of life and vitality in the face of death.”
Prerequisites: Paladin or Cleric class; member of the Order of the Raven organization
Your commitment and dedication to righteousness leads you along the path of the Knight of the Raven. You become the pinnacle of undead bane and a symbol of hope and virtue. With every undead slain the beacon of light grows, and it is your job to keep the crumbling order that keeps this light steady alive. You are one of the proud and few Knights of the Raven.
Knight of the Raven Path Features
Raven’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can also choose an enemy within 5 squares of you. That enemy is surprised until the beginning of your next turn.
Undead Bane (11th level): Whenever attacking undead creatures any roll of 19 or 20 is considered a critical hit.
Searing Blade (16th level): Your attacks ignore the resistance of undead creatures.
Knight of the Raven Prayers
Smite Undead Knight of the Raven Attack 11
Your blade glows for an instant, burning with divine light that pierces undead flesh easily.
Encounter + Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target: One undead creature
Attack: Strength + 4 vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] damage. The target is marked.
Burst of Vitality Knight of the Raven Utility 12
Your heart jump at the shear number of undead surrounding you but something within doesn’t give up.
Encounter + Divine, Healing
Standard Action Personal
Effect: You may spend a healing surge. In addition to the regained hit points, you gain resistance necrotic 5 for a number of rounds equal to your level.
Light in the Darkness Knight of the Raven Attack 20
You unleash radiant light from your blade, burning the flesh of the undead shambling towards you.
Encounter + Divine, Radiant
Standard Action Close burst 5
Target: Each undead creature in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 5d12 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and the target is stunned until the end of your next turn.
Goblyn
Goblyns are vicious and loyal monstrosities created by dark curses, powerful rituals, and ancient artifacts. The transformation changes their appearance and behaviour, causing them to lose any memories of their previous lives. A goblyn is in constant contact with its creator and is severly loyal, doing anything that is commanded of it.
Goblyn Level 2 Lurker
Medium natural humanoid XP 125
Initiative +7 Senses Perception +1; darkvision
HP 30; Bloodied 15
AC 16; Fortitude 14, Reflex 16, Will 14
Speed 6
Claw (standard; at-will)
+7 vs. AC; 1d6 + 3 damage
Bite (standard; at-will)
+5 vs. Reflex; 1d6 damage, and the target is grabbed and takes ongoing 5 damage (until escape). While the target is grabbed, the Goblyn cannot attack.
Alignment Evil Languages Common
Skills: Athletics +6, Stealth +9
Str 10 (+0) Dex 16 (+3) Wis 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1) Int 6 (-2) Cha 8 (-1)
Goblyn Tactics
When not commanded by a creator or more inelligent being goblyns are vicious and unimaginative in their attacks. When faced with one-on-one or other such even odds the goblyn will grab and gnaw on their victims. If outnumbered, goblyns usually shy away from combat until they have some form of advantage.
Carrionette
Carrionettes are evil puppet-like dolls or tiny constructs who act as parasites among humans. Their sole purpose is to acquire human bodies to steal for themselves. Carrionettes can lie still for years, hiding among dolls or puppets that look like them, ready to strike. A carrionette can be constructed of any material and can be of any type (clowns, knights, or something more wild like a dragon).
Carrionette Level 3 Lurker
Tiny natural animate (construct) XP 150
Initiative +7 Senses Perception +7
HP 36; Bloodied 19
AC 17; Fortitude 13, Reflex 16, Will 14
Resist 15 electricity
Speed 4, climb 3
Short Sword (standard; at-will) + Weapon
+7 vs. AC; 1d6 + 3 damage
Slow Needles (standard; recharge 6) + Weapon
Ranged 5/10; +6 vs. AC; 1d6 + 1 damage. On a hit, the carrionette makes a secondary attack against the same target. Secondary Attack: +4 vs. Will; the target is slowed (save ends).
Paralyzing Needle (standard; encounter) + Weapon
Ranged 5/10; +6 vs. AC; 1d6 + 1 damage. On a hit, the carrionette makes a secondary attack against the same target. Secondary Attack: +4 vs. Will; the target is paralyzed (save slows).
Ventriliquism (standard; at-will) + Illusion
Ranged 10. Effect: The carrionette magically throws its voice to sound like anything it desires. It can mimic the voice of a character or NPC, or mimic the sounds of combat to throw off players.
Alignment Chaotic Evil Languages –
Skills: Stealth +8
Str 6 (-1) Dex 15 (+3) Wis 12 (+2)
Con 12 (+2) Int 8 (+0) Cha 10 (+1)
Carrionette Tactics
A carrionette or group of carrionettes will attack when the time is right and they have the upper hand. When a character is alone or when they’re unarmed. The key element to any attack involving carrionettes is surprise. Carrionettes will often focus their attacks and try to overwhelm and hinder one opponent in hopes of switching bodies.
Stuff from the Half-vistani entryEvil Eye
Half-vistani racial ability
Encounter--fear, psychic
Minor action--ranged 5
Target: one creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
1d6+Cha psychic damage and target is dazed until the end of your next turn
Miss: target is dazed for a round
Special: increase to 2d6 at 11th, 3d6 at 21st level
Vistani Insight
Zarovan racial utility power
Daily
No action * Personal
Effect: Add 1d10-4 to initiative for this encounter. Use this power after rolling your initiative
Thief's Luck
Whenever the corvara makes a thievery roll, they can roll twice and take the better result of the two rolls.
The wolfwere is a vicious wolf-like beast that has the amazing gift of being able to appear human. These intelligent hunters often take the guise of travellers, waiting for prey. They will mindlessly strum away or otherwise play instruments that have seemingly no harmful affect. Those who listen, however, will soon find themselves magically infringed by the calming music. That’s when the wolfwere corners them, reveals its true nature, and strikes.
Wolfwere Level 8 Brute
Medium natural beast (shapechangers) XP 350
Initiative +6 Senses Perception +11; low-light vision
HP 104; Bloodied 52
Regeneration 5 (if the wolfwere takes damage from a cold iron weapon, its regeneration doesn’t function on its next turn)
AC 20; Fortitude 19, Reflex 17, Will 18
Speed 8 (6 in human or hybrid form)
Bite (standard; at-will)
+11 vs. AC; 2d6 + 5 damage
Blood Rage
The wolfwere’s melee attacks deal 4 extra damage against a bloodied target.
Change Shape (minor; at-will) + Polymorph
A wolfwere can alter its physical form to appear as a charming humanoid or a werewolf-like hybrid (see Change Shape, page 280 of the Monster Manual). It cannot use its bite attack in humanoid form and can only use its Song of Lethargy in human form.
Song of Lethargy (standard; recharge 5 6) + Implement
Close burst 5; +9 vs. Will; the target is slowed (save ends).
Alignment Evil Languages Common
Skills: Bluff +11, Insight +10, Intimidate +11, Nature +10
Str 16 (+7) Dex 14 (+6) Wis 12 (+5)
Con 14 (+6) Int 12 (+5) Cha 14 (+6)
Wolfwere Tactics
A hunting wolfwere will often take the guise of a traveling minstrel, monk, bard, or the like. The appealing humanoid will welcome prey to a meal and song, comforting them to lower their guard. When their guard is lowered, the wolfwere will strike, turning into its hybrid form or its true form, (that of a wolf) and attack with its vicious maw.
Caliban
Racial traits
Average Height: 5'6-6'2
Average Weight: 150-255 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 str, +2 wis
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Darkvision
Outcast rating: 5
Languages: Common and one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 intimidate, +2 perception
Human blooded: Caliban count as human for the purposes of all feats and abilities.
Necrotic Resistance: Caliban recieve necrotic resistance equal to 5+1/2 their level.
Rage of the Downtrodden: Once per encounter, when bloodied, a caliban can use Rage of the Downtrodden.
Oversized: Caliban can use weapons of their size or one size category larger without penalty.
Play a caliban if you...
....want a character who uses brute force and blind rage.
....want a character strong against the energy draining attacks of the undead.
....you enjoyed The Tempest
....you want a race that favors the fighter or rogue classes
and Rage of the downtrodden
Rage of the Downtrodden
Caliban Racial Power
Encounter
Standard action*Close Burst 1
Attack: Str vs. AC
Requirement: Must be bloodied
Hit: 2[W] + Str. Push each target 1 square.
Special: 3[W] + Str at 11th and 4[W] + Str at 21st.
A 9th level spell in 3.5 with the evil and necromantic descriptor was 18%, a 17th level ability with the necrotic descriptor would be a 17% (same level). I could see doing half level rounded down for a power with the necrotic (or possibly fear) descriptor and maybe 1% per level for necrotic and fear? or conversely, 1% per level period.
Even looking at most of those, the only class more than occasionally effected is Warlock, wizard has a couple things, as do cleric and paladin. Does half level rounded down make more sense?
The 3rd edition multiclass rules worked perfectly for Ravenloft. I know that the 4th edition multiclass rules prevent munchkins players from cherry picking 3+ classes (I must confess, I have done it myself), but it was wonderfull for flavoring npcs.
Like Strahd, he was a warrior before he became a vampire and a necromancer. Thus Strahd had a few fighter levels to fit his background. While Strahd in 2nd edition was just a necromancer 16, in 3rd he was fighter 5 / necromancer 16. The way multiclass works now in 4th edition, I dont think I will ever be happy with Strahd being Fighter taking Wizard instead of a paragon path (or the other way around).
I am concerned about one thing in Ravenloft.
The 3rd edition multiclass rules worked perfectly for Ravenloft. I know that the 4th edition multiclass rules prevent munchkins players from cherry picking 3+ classes (I must confess, I have done it myself), but it was wonderfull for flavoring npcs.
Like Strahd, he was a warrior before he became a vampire and a necromancer. Thus Strahd had a few fighter levels to fit his background. While Strahd in 2nd edition was just a necromancer 16, in 3rd he was fighter 5 / necromancer 16. The way multiclass works now in 4th edition, I dont think I will ever be happy with Strahd being Fighter taking Wizard instead of a paragon path (or the other way around).
Being as Strahd is an enemy of the PCs and not a playable character, I don't see him taking levels in anything at all.
I think either Lurker or Controller would work well for him. When I ran EtCR for 3.5E, Strahd was always popping out of hiding to smack the PCs with a powerful spell, then slink away to attack again at the next time. Definitely a Solo monster, definitely looking at the Vampire Lord Elite template.
Much of the rest of the module looks like it can be run by simply using core monsters from the MM with only minor tweaking.
Being as Strahd is an enemy of the PCs and not a playable character, I don't see him taking levels in anything at all.
I think either Lurker or Controller would work well for him. When I ran EtCR for 3.5E, Strahd was always popping out of hiding to smack the PCs with a powerful spell, then slink away to attack again at the next time. Definitely a Solo monster, definitely looking at the Vampire Lord Elite template.
So his background being a general fighting a war was for nothing. Just because he isnt a player he didn't learn a thing.
Back in 2nd edition, monsters didn't have class levels, Ravenloft changed that presenting a Vampire Necromancer. That is one of the things that makes Ravenloft great IMHO. Darklords are villains, and most of them are (at least were) created just like players.
Strahd being a Lurker or a Controller without class levels don't explain his background.
Using class features should not prompt a powers check, either. I understand that it represents the corrupting effect of certain powers, but it takes some fun out of the game when you're constantly worrying about having your character draw one step closer to NPC every time you use Infernal Wrath. I think that for 4e, the ideals need to shift towards the attitude that even though some abilities may be questionable, it's what you do with them that ultimately matters.
Also, I think that you did great with the half-vistani (though I would consider making them a wis/cha race instead of a wis/dex), and the Caliban are pretty good too. I had my own versions of these two (It's a bit scary. I had the same encounter power exactly) and they're posted in another thread that I started this morning before I noticed this one. As far as the Caliban race goes, though, I think that your encounter power wouldn't see much use outside of melee classes. I think that a Caliban should be encouraged to be played aggressively, so consider the following power instead:
Curseborn Fury: Encounter, minor. Your next attack, if it hits, also gives the target a -2 to all defenses until the end of your next turn. If you use an area attack, this ability only affects one target within the area.
Another idea I had was changing the star pact warlocks to mist pact. All that changed mechanically was switching all radiant damage to cold damage and cold damage to poison damage. The rest is all flavor. If any of you guys have ideas on this, please speak up.
Being as Strahd is an enemy of the PCs and not a playable character, I don't see him taking levels in anything at all.
I think either Lurker or Controller would work well for him. When I ran EtCR for 3.5E, Strahd was always popping out of hiding to smack the PCs with a powerful spell, then slink away to attack again at the next time. Definitely a Solo monster, definitely looking at the Vampire Lord Elite template.
I've actually been doing some thinking on some of the darklords. I think you'd want to build them all from scratch. No base race, no templates, no classes. It'd be the toughest method, but I think that in the end it would be the one that would allow the most accurate representation of these notorious villains.
One rule of thumb that I'm going by is that all darklords (the plurality of them, actually) are elite monsters at a minimum, and the more powerful ones (Strahd, Azalin, Drakov, Soth [He's still around in MY campaigns]) are solo monsters.
Strahd is the one I've been working on lately. I've looked at his tactics, and I have him set as a level 27 solo controller/skirmisher. He kills slowly, but he kills. He should have an attack, I think, that is similar to the poison fog that surrounds Barovia. This would be his primary method of battlefield control. He'd be able to blanket the area in rings or walls of this mist to try and control where the party moves, and entering them would result in some pretty nasty ongoing poison damage. Furthermore, he'd have several necrotic damage powers that have moderate damage and nasty debuffs attached to them. He's always been good at escaping, so I figure that as a minor action he can go into gaseous form and shift several squares, ignoring difficult terrain and gaining a fly speed. That's all I've got so far, but I've also been playing with the idea of giving him the alternate form presented in the 3e update of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. In this case, he would have his standard form (controller), his feral form (brute), his werebat form (skirmisher), and his dire wolf form (soldier?)
I am concerned about one thing in Ravenloft.
The 3rd edition multiclass rules worked perfectly for Ravenloft. I know that the 4th edition multiclass rules prevent munchkins players from cherry picking 3+ classes (I must confess, I have done it myself), but it was wonderfull for flavoring npcs.
Like Strahd, he was a warrior before he became a vampire and a necromancer. Thus Strahd had a few fighter levels to fit his background. While Strahd in 2nd edition was just a necromancer 16, in 3rd he was fighter 5 / necromancer 16. The way multiclass works now in 4th edition, I dont think I will ever be happy with Strahd being Fighter taking Wizard instead of a paragon path (or the other way around).
Remember, NPC's don't have to be statted up as PC's. In the case of Strahd, one possible way of going about things would be to write him up as a Wizard NPC (although the upcoming Necromancer class would be far better), then apply the Vampire Lord template to him, making him an Elite. Then you can slap another template on him to represent his fighter skills. Battle Champion would be a good one. Or hell, would it be alright to slap a class template on a classed NPC? If so, you can make him a Warlord. And there you go. You got a vampire who's a powerful spellcaster and is also a superlative combatant as well as war leader.
Remember, NPC's don't have to be statted up as PC's. In the case of Strahd, one possible way of going about things would be to write him up as a Wizard NPC (although the upcoming Necromancer class would be far better), then apply the Vampire Lord template to him, making him an Elite. Then you can slap another template on him to represent his fighter skills. Battle Champion would be a good one. Or hell, would it be alright to slap a class template on a classed NPC? If so, you can make him a Warlord. And there you go. You got a vampire who's a powerful spellcaster and is also a superlative combatant as well as war leader.
Your idea is good mechanic-wise. This approach would give Strahd the powers of a Fighter, a Necromancer and a Vampire. I will probably use something like this for the time being.
I still have a problem with the background. He started his career as a Fighter, not as a Wizard. I am trying to come up with a different multi-class method for npcs, one that allows the flexibility of 3rd edition, so the npc´s flavor and background really be 'built' into his sheet.
As far as designing him goes, I think that the controller roll is perfect for him. The DMG says that controllers have abilities to control the battlefield and their enemies, and many of the debilitating of effects found in necromancy fall into this category. Strahd could conceivably weaken or immobilize targets with his necromantic spells, not to mention giving them some nasty penalties to attacks and saves. Furthermore, he could have domination or dazing from his vampiric powers, and a more local version of his choking fog could create blankets of areas that cause ongoing poison damage.
Controllers are also supposed to have decent melee abilities, if not outstanding. Here you could put a bastard sword in his hand and, taking a page out of one of his minion's books, make one attack with the sword and an energy draining slam with his other hand each round he's in melee. Personally, I think that the cautious approach to combat that he's had in previous editions also lends itself to giving him some lurker or skirmisher elements.
I think you guys are reading too much into the backstory and trying to place it into mechanics. The backstory is great, but it's roleplaying, and creating him by making him as you would an NPC just isn't going to yield a solo monster. As far as the history of the game goes, Strahd has always been a caster in combat, and he's always been cautious. Design him from the ground up. If you want to reflect some of his war history in his statistics, make his basic attack a swing with his bastard sword and make it nasty (that's what I'm doing), but leave most of his other powers as spell-like effects. Remember, in 3e he was a 16th level necromancer, but only a 4th level fighter. Which of those levels do you think would have more of an impact on his combat strategy?
Of course his 4 level of fighter didnt gave him much, especially compared to his 16 levels in necromancer. And it is obvious that in a fight, Strahd would use necromantic spells and not depend on Weapon Specialization (if he ever had that feat). But he was a fighter, those levels reflected his background. Just like other darklords had in 3rd edition, levels in Npcs classes (which are basically a waste of levels) just for background.
I know that as a DM I can give Strahd whichever powers I like. I can give him any classes, paragon paths, templates, or even make him dance a tango in combat.
What made Strahd and the other Darklords great, were their class levels (which most Darklord had). You never face a simple monster, or a monster with more hit points and weird powers when facing a Darklord.
I like villains that follow the same rules (or at least close to) as the players. We often make fun of other worlds when there is this major npc or villain that has a super special power that no one else has and it is impossible to obtain. That didnt happen in Ravenloft, although the Darklords special powers are kind of unique, it is possible for a player to obtain such powers to same level thanks to the Dark Powers.
I just cant get used to the idea of 'reverting' back to the way it was in the 2nd edition with Strahd being just a Vampire Necromancer. Or even worse just a monster without any class whatsoever.
I realize that he did start his career as a warrior, but when you're designing him at a high level, you can say what came first and what came later without that actually being the case in his build.
and creating him by making him as you would an NPC just isn't going to yield a solo monster.
Not quite. Making an NPC will give you a Standard Monster. Applying a Template (like Vampire Lord) will make it an Elite. Applying a second template, like Battle Champion, will make him a Solo. Quick and easy and you do end up with a Solo.
The only solution I could come up with that would allow a person to play a lock is to alter the fluff on a few of the fey pact powers and give them two alternative pacts instead of Star and Infernal: Mists and Primal. The Primal pact is a pact made with one of the primordial entities, so it is basically an "elemental" pact. The Mists Pact is pretty self explanatory.
I guess I'll start trying to design the two alternative pacts. That's going to take a little while though.
Personnally, in the 4e edition, I would consider Strad like a warlord of level between 16 to 20 multiclass in warlock infernal pact. After all, in his background, he made a pact with the darkpower and that's quite similar to an infernal pact. I think it fit his personnality better since it is said in his background of the 2e and 3e edition that he was an amateur necromancer when he was transformed into a vampire. So, so he is basically more a fighter (or more accurately a warlord since he was the leader of his army) than a necromancer. His necromancer part was more a way to justify that he was able to create undead minion.
That may have been true when the character was first conceptualized, but since then he has grown and developed. Strahd is now identified as being a necromancer more than any other class. Remember too, that even in the initial AD&D module, he was a base vampire with the spellcasting ability of a 10th level wizard. He has never been a melee character in any of his appearances.
Yeah, but remember that in the 2e and 3e edition, wizards, and paticularly necromancers, were the ultimate vilain class. After all, in the ancients edition wizard was the ultimate class passed the level 10. So, it was difficult with these editions to create a high level vilain that was not a wizard or at least a priest. Few high level vilain were fighter or thief for example. And Strahd just wasn't excluded by this rule. But in the 4e edition, class being more equal even at high level, he doesn't need to be a wizard (or a necromancer) anymore to be a feared caracter.
Did the necromancer class of Strahd is a particular aspect of the character or just a way to transform the caracter into an ultimate vilain? It's a good question. 2e and 3e edition doesn't give the choice to put him in the necromancer class since otherwise it was impossible for him create and control so many undead minion. 4e edition open new possibility for the class of the caracter. Putting him into a martial class just make him more like Dracula, is litterature counterpart (that could be a good or a bad thing, it's just a question of point of view).
Strahd could also be a wizard or warlock with a multiclass in warlord or fighter. Like in the second edition, his principal class just swap over time when he got more practice in his new class.
I'm not arguing that point. It seems to me, though, that Strahd is identifiable as a spellcasting villain, and I just don't see any reason to change that when there are plenty of other great warrior-type villains out there, just in Ravenloft alone (Drakov, Adam, Soth). Furthermore, changing him to a warlord or a fighter would also involve tossing all of Strahd's classic tactics out the window, and he would be adopting a completely different approach to combat that, to my eyes, is very unbefiting of Strahd. He fights cautiously, and would be loath to remain in melee with the party for more than a few rounds.
Actually, in From teh Shadows module (apart of the Grand Conjuction) Strahd was defined as a, I believe, 20th level fighter in life, and using second edition rules, he could of easily changed to a mage and partook of necromancy.
Of course, all that has changed now since the advent of 3rd and now 4th edition. I can easily see Strahd as a Fighter with Wizard multi-class feat, swapping several of his warrior based powers for wizard spells, or even better, a warlock for warlock pacts, which would make even more sense now.
I also imagine the Domainlords being of epic level to begin with, so a minimum of level 21, as paragon level would probably be a cluster lord, and heroic level either an island of terror or a pocket domain.
Not quite. Making an NPC will give you a Standard Monster. Applying a Template (like Vampire Lord) will make it an Elite. Applying a second template, like Battle Champion, will make him a Solo. Quick and easy and you do end up with a Solo.
Keep in mind, you only need to add two templates to make a solo for existing monsters. For new solo monsters you can just design them from the ground up, although templates will give good ideas.
Azalin, when I designed him as a test, I used the Controller type. He's a person who would fight with many pawns and continually summon extra. He's also a leader that would empower his foes. But most of his attacks should be standard wizard fare and designed to hinder people and attack groups.
Strahd, is a textbook lurker. He comes out of shadows and attacks. He would still be a leader, and boost the allies in the combat, but he should be more focused on quick hit-and-run strikes.
To reflect the martial background, he should have a solid basic melee attack and a weapon (sword?) but he should have a series of necromantic attacks and nasty surprises, mostly against single targets. All this, in addition to the ability to summon allies.
For Castle Ravenloft, when running it for 4e, I would have most of the encounters considered easy or moderate, few hard encounters. Then just have Strahd periodically strike, which raises the difficulty and level of the encounter, but wouldn't change the xp awarded as Strahd wouldn't be killed.
Strahd, is a textbook lurker. He comes out of shadows and attacks. He would still be a leader, and boost the allies in the combat, but he should be more focused on quick hit-and-run strikes.
To reflect the martial background, he should have a solid basic melee attack and a weapon (sword?) but he should have a series of necromantic attacks and nasty surprises, mostly against single targets. All this, in addition to the ability to summon allies.
Yes! Exactly! I had pegged Strahd as a solo lurker/controller hybrid, with lot's of mobility and ways to escape the battle (there's the lurker), and a lot of debilitating necromancy spells (that's the controller part). For his melee attack, I would give him a bastard sword that puts some sort of minor curse on a character. Maybe a penalty to attacks or defenses for one turn. I'm working on a major ability for him that allows him to create a persistent zone of poisonous mist once per round as a minor action. The only significant difference in the approach I've been taking to building him is the way he interacts with his minions.
I had Azalin labeled as elite and plan for him to have hordes of undead minions at his disposal (or maybe solo with a wide array of abilities to create and summon minions). Strahd, on the other hand (in my game, I mean) would fight the party alone, or with only one or two allies. He would be a solo monster without the leader designation, but he would not engage them until his minions had already spent a good portion of the adventure wearing down the party's resources.
Azalin (I'd peg him as a L23 solo) would be 25,500 xp. But an epic L25 encounter (tough for 5 L22 or 23 PCs, but do-able) could feature Azalin and 9,500xp worth of other critters.
Perhaps two L21 undead and three L21 minions (100xp short of a 4th minion, but one could be added and the encounter could just grant a *tad* more XP than standard).
So the fight would end up as Azalin and six other undead (4 minions) likely laying down some PC pain.
Cross posted from the FoS...
Knight of the Raven Path Features
Raven’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can also choose an enemy within 5 squares of you. That enemy is surprised until the beginning of your next turn.
Effect: You may spend a healing surge. In addition to the regained hit points, you gain resistance necrotic 5 for a number of rounds equal to your level.
Here is some constructive criticism. These two powers are highly problematic. For example, what exactly happens to a "surprised" creature DURING a combat round? Surprise is something that should only happen at the start of a fight. Pick a different, pre-existing status effect from the book and use that instead of "surprised." This surprised business is way to clunky and interpretable.
Second, remove the "resistance for a number of rounds equal to your level." That is how 3e powers work, not 4e powers. It should last until your next turn, and perhaps have a sustainable clause (which should cost some sort of action, such as a minor for example, which must be spent every round to maintain the power). That, or it should state that it lasts until the end of the encounter.
Actually, in From teh Shadows module (apart of the Grand Conjuction) Strahd was defined as a, I believe, 20th level fighter in life, and using second edition rules, he could of easily changed to a mage and partook of necromancy.
That's the one and only time he's been portrayed as a straight fighter, and it directly contradicted all his other 2E-era descriptions. His original 2E write-up pegged him as a 5th level wizard, at the time of his fall from grace, IIRC.
Why does everyone assume that "great battlefield commander" necessarily has to mean "kick-butt tank"? Strahd was, and is, a genius. Who's to say that he didn't simply out-think his enemies? Sure, he would have had warlords as officers in his army, in 4E terms, but there's no reason he had to have been one himself.
That's the one and only time he's been portrayed as a straight fighter, and it directly contradicted all his other 2E-era descriptions. His original 2E write-up pegged him as a 5th level wizard, at the time of his fall from grace, IIRC.
Why does everyone assume that "great battlefield commander" necessarily has to mean "kick-butt tank"? Strahd was, and is, a genius. Who's to say that he didn't simply out-think his enemies? Sure, he would have had warlords as officers in his army, in 4E terms, but there's no reason he had to have been one himself.
Actually, no it's not. 2nd edition rules, humans could not dual class like say elves and dwarves could. It's been easily explained in the 2nd edition rules and parameters, and it pains me tha tpeople have forgotten this much.
If a human wanted to multi-class, they had to completely abandon their old class. They could not touch any of their abilities and powers. This is a foolish assumptiont o believe that a military commander and someone described as a warrior in life, was not himself a warrior, considering he is described as having started to learn sorcery and magic AFTER his retaking of his ancestral homes.
If you are going to try and use facts, I suggest grabbing all the facts first. Strahd was a warrior in life up and until he took back Castle Ravenloft. After that he started dabbling in magery stuff from books that him and his officers had procured. Want further proof? Read the novel I, Strahd by P. N. Elrod.
By the time his brother, Sergei, had gotten to Barovia, Strahd was roughly the levle 20 former fighter, but now a 5th level mage. When he made his pact with Death as he claims, and he and the lands became the first known domain in ravenloft, he devoted himself whole heartedly to necromancy, and thus worked to learn more.
By the time of the end of the official print run of Ravenloft (I don't consider the Arthaus run Ravenloft in the slightest) Strahd had become a 16th level necromancer. According to the rules of 2nd edition AD&D, if Strahd had achieved level 21 as a necromancer he could fully use his 20 levels of fighter skill and knowledge without a single problem.
If you are going to follow that then, I would place Strahd at about a level 26 fighter with multi-classs wizard (focussing on necromancy rituals and such) with the majority of his at-wills, dailies, encounters and utilities being replaced with magic. He shoudl still have one or two fighter based attacks, but most of them should be repalced with magic.
Actually when you think about it, Strahd should probably be a 26th levle warlord with multi-class to warlock as a feat. That would make more sense in 4th edition.
Azalin (and most lords) are textbook solos, except for a few weaker non-combat lords. They'd still fight with minions, but this would just boost the level of the encounter.
Azalin (I'd peg him as a L23 solo) would be 25,500 xp. But an epic L25 encounter (tough for 5 L22 or 23 PCs, but do-able) could feature Azalin and 9,500xp worth of other critters.
Perhaps two L21 undead and three L21 minions (100xp short of a 4th minion, but one could be added and the encounter could just grant a *tad* more XP than standard).
So the fight would end up as Azalin and six other undead (4 minions) likely laying down some PC pain.
Azalin I would peg as a level 28 demi-lich giving his actions in the novel, if we are using 4th edition rules. Remember, Azalin's curse is he can't learn new magic or spells, and thus any new ritual or spell he could potentially learn is instantly forgotten the minute he tries to memorize it. Of course, according to the novels, Azalin was suffering from this curse long before he entered Ravenloft, but that only heightened the effects of the curse.
If you are going to follow that then, I would place Strahd at about a level 26 fighter with multi-classs wizard (focussing on necromancy rituals and such) with the majority of his at-wills, dailies, encounters and utilities being replaced with magic. He shoudl still have one or two fighter based attacks, but most of them should be repalced with magic.
Which is fine for a continuity-based Strahd.
But Strahd has always been portrayed as a necormancy and wizard-vampire first, whose background is that of a fighter and general.
Sure, I6 mentions that he was a warrior and the general of an army in the Tome of Strahd section, but his game-stats peg him as a 10th level Necromancer.
Of course, the original Strahd used the 1st Edition AD&D dual class rules, which were similar to the 2e rules described above. And there's no sign he was ever a fighter.
And the novels should be taken with a grain of salt. They're written by writers and don't always reflect the game rules or canon.
Besides, when designing 4e monsters, PC rules like class and multi-class do not matter. At all. The class templates in the DMG (like all templates) are really only for adjusting existing monsters.
Strahd's background belongs there, in the background. It has no bearing on him game stats.
But Strahd has always been a vampire necromancer. I really don't see the benefit of making him mostly a fighter with a couple wizard tricks just because that's how he'd be designed as a PC. He should be designed based on his role in combat and what a brilliant Dracula-type character would do.
Azalin I would peg as a level 28 demi-lich giving his actions in the novel, if we are using 4th edition rules. Remember, Azalin's curse is he can't learn new magic or spells, and thus any new ritual or spell he could potentially learn is instantly forgotten the minute he tries to memorize it. Of course, according to the novels, Azalin was suffering from this curse long before he entered Ravenloft, but that only heightened the effects of the curse.
The ArtHaus products (and the Kargatane website just prior to that) both returned Azalin to regular lich-hood.
And Ravenloft really isn't an epic-friendly campaign setting. Adventures there don't lend themselves to the craziness of epic levels and the god-like monsters encountered at that tier, to say nothing of the expected planar travel. Ravenloft should probably max out in the paragon tier, with PCs just hitting 20 or 21.
So a L23 Azalin and L24 Strahd are all but invincible.
The ArtHaus products (and the Kargatane website just prior to that) both returned Azalin to regular lich-hood.
And Ravenloft really isn't an epic-friendly campaign setting. Adventures there don't lend themselves to the craziness of epic levels and the god-like monsters encountered at that tier, to say nothing of the expected planar travel. Ravenloft should probably max out in the paragon tier, with PCs just hitting 20 or 21.
So a L23 Azalin and L24 Strahd are all but invincible.
I would have to say your assumptions of Ravenloft are way off base. Furthermore the Kargatane website, a fansite, hasn't been in operation in over 5 years, long before the Arthaus publications were halted. All that's left of the Kargatane fansite are basic get a hold of info and little things like that.
Saying Ravenloft doesn't lend itself well to an epic campaign setting is bull. Ravenloft itself can trap gods and demi-gods a like. Remember, before that horrible splash story they tried to create right at the end, ravenloft even held Vecna imprisoned.
There is plenty to make Ravenlfot an epic level campaign setting, and the darlords themselves would be in the epic level power range easily. Azalin would fall in that area because what he did was of epic scope, afraid of death, always pursuing the easy way to stay alive. Hence he became a lich. Strahd, was an epic warrior in life, dabbled in magery, then became a great necromancer (though the term great is used in it's loosest definition).
Saying Ravenloft doesn't lend itself well to epic campaign stories is like saying Forgotten Realms doesn't lend itself well to heroic tier stories.
Finally, darklords are invincible for all intents and purposes. These excuses you keep coming up with, yes excuses, of why not because you think the players should overcome, easily, one thing or another to fit a paradigm is silly. In all cases, the darklords only have one weakness that a player character would even have a chance of bringing them down, for instance Strahd's weakness is the artifact: The Holy Symbol of Ravenkind as well as his unhealthy infatuation for Tatyana. Azalin's weakness is his desire for escape and his inability to learn more things. Killing either of these indivudals is close to impossible.
Finally, I think any publication by Arthaus is null and void at this point. It is not very popular among fans of Ravenloft, from what I have read, what White Wolf did to Ravenloft, and I cna probably expect, when an actula Ravenloft printing comes to pass, that anything White Wolf did will be retconned out of the continuation. In fact, the 3.5 edition Ravenloft module adventure didn't even mention the Arthaus books, or use any of it's materials, which further cements the notion that any future Ravenloft publications will completely ignore anything White Wolf printed, which, form my viewpoint, is a good thing considering the White Wolf run was an attrocious travesty and insult to the name of Ravenloft.
Actually, no it's not. 2nd edition rules, humans could not dual class like say elves and dwarves could. It's been easily explained in the 2nd edition rules and parameters, and it pains me tha tpeople have forgotten this much.
I've been playing D&D since the 1E era, Ravenspyre, and I remember quite well how (badly) the old "dual-classing" rules worked. I also remember that Strahd's 1E and 2E statistics weren't consistent with a dual-class build. Otherwise, he'd have had a heck of a lot more hit points.
It's impolite to assume that others must not know how the game works, or used to work, just because they disagree with you.
By the time his brother, Sergei, had gotten to Barovia, Strahd was roughly the levle 20 former fighter, but now a 5th level mage.
And this 25th-level character nearly got himself killed in a skirmish with some petty bandits in I, Strahd, the same novel you're citing as proof he was a super soldier? Funny, Sergei didn't have any trouble disarming their leader, and his military experience was zilch.
If Strahd had been the powerhouse warrior you're claiming, then by the old-school rules you're citing as proof, Alek Gwylym wouldn't've needed to stop Strahd's fall from the cliff, because he'd have had so many hit points that he'd probably bounce. In any case, I, Strahd is presented as a work of self-exonerating propaganda, not history ... else, why would it blame all the wedding guests' deaths on Leo Dilisnya, when we see Strahd ripping them to bits in the 5th Grand Conjunction module?
I've been playing D&D since the 1E era, Ravenspyre, and I remember quite well how (badly) the old "dual-classing" rules worked. I also remember that Strahd's 1E and 2E statistics weren't consistent with a dual-class build. Otherwise, he'd have had a heck of a lot more hit points.
It's impolite to assume that others must not know how the game works, or used to work, just because they disagree with you.
And this 25th-level character nearly got himself killed in a skirmish with some petty bandits in I, Strahd, the same novel you're citing as proof he was a super soldier? Funny, Sergei didn't have any trouble disarming their leader, and his military experience was zilch.
If Strahd had been the powerhouse warrior you're claiming, then by the old-school rules you're citing as proof, Alek Gwylym wouldn't've needed to stop Strahd's fall from the cliff, because he'd have had so many hit points that he'd probably bounce. In any case, I, Strahd is presented as a work of self-exonerating propaganda, not history ... else, why would it blame all the wedding guests' deaths on Leo Dilisnya, when we see Strahd ripping them to bits in the 5th Grand Conjunction module?
Actually the novel cited that he had not used those skills in sometime and he chided himself for bieng caught so unaware and basically with his pants down. I suggest re-reading the novel.
Well, he would say something like that, wouldn't he, whether he was 25th level or 5th?
Regardless, a great warrior and leader of a vast army would not be level 5, and I doubt would be below level 15 in his career. However, I would, at best say he was level 10, and once he settled in, he multi-classed into warlock, using 4th edition rules, and feated out most of his warlord based skills and abilities for warlock ones. I would assume he might have at least one of his warlord at-wills, most likely the wolf pack tactics, and he would most definitely be a tactical warlord. I would also put him at level 26 (basically giving him ten more levels for 4th edition) as to reflect his tne level sin life, and his 16 levels in un-death studying and his years of entrapment.
I would have to say your assumptions of Ravenloft are way off base. Furthermore the Kargatane website, a fansite, hasn't been in operation in over 5 years, long before the Arthaus publications were halted. All that's left of the Kargatane fansite are basic get a hold of info and little things like that.
The Kargatane was the Official Fansite, recognised by WotC. Their contributions were canon.
The site itself shut down because the people running it were too busy writing 3e Ravenloft for S&S/ArtHaus to maintain the site.
Saying Ravenloft doesn't lend itself well to an epic campaign setting is bull. Ravenloft itself can trap gods and demi-gods a like. Remember, before that horrible splash story they tried to create right at the end, ravenloft even held Vecna imprisoned.
Ravenloft is a low-power, low-magic campaign of Gothic horror. The villains are recognizably human with human drives, flaws, and emotion (as you point out, Strahd’s lust of Tatyana or Azalin’s desire for freedom). There's not much room for fighting primordial living weapons, undead god foetuses, elder dragons, or all-powerful demon princes. There's no room for powers that begin "once per day, when you die" or PCs on their way to becoming demigods.
Ravenloft is a horror campaign setting where the PCs should be challenged and frightened, and when you're epic level there's very little that can justifiably terrify you.
Just look at what the PHB says about the epic tier:
"You travel across nations in the blink of an eye ... The success or failure of your adventures has far-reaching consequences, possibly determining the fate of millions in this world and even planes beyond.
You navigate otherworldly realms and explore neverbefore-seen caverns of wonder, where you can expect to battle savage pit fiends, the ferocious tarrasque, sinister sorrowsworn deathlords, bloodthirsty lich archmages, and even demon princes. The dragons you encounter are ancient wyrms of truly earthshaking power, whose sleep troubles kingdoms and whose waking threatens the world."
None of that seems particularly relevant to Ravenloft where you explicitly cannot "travel across nations in the blink of an eye" or "navigate otherworldly realms".
And look at the archtypical Ravenloft hero, Rudolph van Richten. The number one, most recognised name in Mist heroics. And he was a L10 rogue. In 4e terms he barely made it to the paragon tier!
I'm not saying it would be impossible to have a campaign hit epic in Ravenloft. Deep explorations of Bluetspur or the Shadow Rift would certainly be epic, as would confronting Vecna or new, more planar lands. But it's not easy and should not be the default.
The setting plays best at low levels, in the heroic tier when the PCs should be expected to be concerned with saving small villages and being local heroes. And the big dramatic end to campaigns is saving nations and being in the mid-paragon tier.
And anyhoo, if a handful of lords are low-epic (L21-24) then most epic play is still accommodated. It takes 30 seconds to adjust monsters up and down 5 levels. So a L23 Azalin could easily be tweaked for levels 18-28.
Finally, darklords are invincible for all intents and purposes.
Tell that to Duke Gundar, Camille Boristi, the Black Wolf, and Claude Renier.
These excuses you keep coming up with, yes excuses, of why not because you think the players should overcome, easily, one thing or another to fit a paradigm is silly.
No, I think the players should be challenged. But adequately.
In all cases, the darklords only have one weakness that a player character would even have a chance of bringing them down, for instance Strahd's weakness is the artifact: The Holy Symbol of Ravenkind as well as his unhealthy infatuation for Tatyana. Azalin's weakness is his desire for escape and his inability to learn more things. Killing either of these indivudals is close to impossible.
Which has no bearing on their level.
A L23 lich is unstoppable to a L19 or 20 party. Advancing him to 28 just means he can be squished by a group of five L30 adventurers. And that puts him on par with the demon-god of gnolls, which Azalin certainly is not. L28 or 29 might have been fine for Vecna when he was imprisoned, but not Azalin.
Keep in mind L20 in 2e or 3e does not translate to L30 in 4e. It translates to 20 in 4e. Epic in 3e has simply been added to the Core books and the formerly optional stuff is now standard.
Finally, I think any publication by Arthaus is null and void at this point.
That’s nice.
I could say the same about any TSR publication as well.
It is not very popular among fans of Ravenloft, from what I have read, what White Wolf did to Ravenloft, and I cna probably expect, when an actula Ravenloft printing comes to pass, that anything White Wolf did will be retconned out of the continuation.
Funny. Every single Ravenloft fan save two or three I have ever talked to in the last five years adores ArtHaus' Gazetteers. The game rules were ass, but the fluff was amazing. And now, with the rules obsolete, the books are even more valuable, opposed to most of the 2e stuff that was rules-heavy and ignorable.
And I can expect an uproar if they did retcon (the very few) additions from ArtHaus. To attract the maximum number of fans (both of the 2e and 3e versions of the setting) WotC would have to accommodate both or alienate half.
In fact, the 3.5 edition Ravenloft module adventure didn't even mention the Arthaus books, or use any of it's materials, which further cements the notion that any future Ravenloft publications will completely ignore anything White Wolf printed, which, form my viewpoint, is a good thing considering the White Wolf run was an attrocious travesty and insult to the name of Ravenloft.
Yes. But the 3.5 book also didn't mention Azalin, the demiplane, or anything at all even remotely related to the Campaign setting.
That's a bit like saying "because Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins didn't mention Tehn or the Pale they won't be in a 4e Greyhawk book."
Regardless, a great warrior and leader of a vast army would not be level 5, and I doubt would be below level 15 in his career.
He was a hereditary general. He wasn’t a Conan that was a former slave who fought his way up the ranks and became king by his own hand.
And generals, who stay back and direct troops, generally don’t see a lot of action themselves and, in-game, wouldn’t gain much xp.
However, I would, at best say he was level 10, and once he settled in, he multi-classed into warlock, using 4th edition rules, and feated out most of his warlord based skills and abilities for warlock ones.
Which is what Player Character Strahd would do in the campaign where you play General von Zarovich fighting off the Tergs.
Monster Strahd would be a straight solo monster that can have unique abilities unrelated to anything PC Strahd could ever do. Such as summoning undead.
But he could also have at-will powers that resemble PC powers, so he could have a warlord encounter power, a fighter encounter power, and a whole wad of necromantic powers similar to those of a wizard’s and cleric’s.
The Kargatane was the Official Fansite, recognised by WotC. Their contributions were canon.
The site itself shut down because the people running it were too busy writing 3e Ravenloft for S&S/ArtHaus to maintain the site.
My gues sis, since you can't be bothered to actually go read messages, that the actual reason for the official sites closing down was because the people running it didn't care anymore? Maybe you should, isntead of actually making up claims, go read the actual statement made, which is quite readable now. In fact the actual line of the letter is;
"There are many contributing factors, but in the end it comes down to the fact that the Kargatane no longer have the collective enthusiasm and energy to make this site live up to its own standards as a Ravenloft fan site. To keep something this big going, it requires constant ongoing revision and attention to keep it fresh. In this site's heyday, the Kargatane were producing netbooks, regularly writing reviews, running competitions and creating other useful downloads for fans. Lately, updates have come much less frequently, and the running of the site has become more of a chore and less of a joy."
Ravenloft is a low-power, low-magic campaign of Gothic horror. The villains are recognizably human with human drives, flaws, and emotion (as you point out, Strahd’s lust of Tatyana or Azalin’s desire for freedom). There's not much room for fighting primordial living weapons, undead god foetuses, elder dragons, or all-powerful demon princes. There's no room for powers that begin "once per day, when you die" or PCs on their way to becoming demigods.
Again, you obviously have never ran or particpated in a Ravenloft campaign if you believe any of that claptrap you just spat out. Ravenloft was a low-magic campaign setting, it was not a low powered one.
Ravenloft is a horror campaign setting where the PCs should be challenged and frightened, and when you're epic level there's very little that can justifiably terrify you.
If you believe that, then you just don't know horror then.
None of that seems particularly relevant to Ravenloft where you explicitly cannot "travel across nations in the blink of an eye" or "navigate otherworldly realms".
That adds to the horror. Imagine being an epic level person that can't use your epic powers to isntantly blink somewhere. I think you get trapped too much and don't bother actually thinking outside of the box much. You seem to be caught up too much in the worries and rules lawyering than actually enjoying the game setting.
And look at the archtypical Ravenloft hero, Rudolph van Richten. The number one, most recognised name in Mist heroics. And he was a L10 rogue. In 4e terms he barely made it to the paragon tier!
Actually, for a correction since you evidently never had the books, Rudolf van Richten was a level 20 thief in teh red box. In the black box he was a levle 1 thief. So between blacka nd red box he gained 19 levels. Yes, he was epic level, so I suggest you review before commenting again.
I'm not saying it would be impossible to have a campaign hit epic in Ravenloft. Deep explorations of Bluetspur or the Shadow Rift would certainly be epic, as would confronting Vecna or new, more planar lands. But it's not easy and should not be the default.
The setting plays best at low levels, in the heroic tier when the PCs should be expected to be concerned with saving small villages and being local heroes. And the big dramatic end to campaigns is saving nations and being in the mid-paragon tier.
Your argument is flawed since that's exactly what you are saying that it would be impossible. The fact you really know so little about what make's Ravenloft, Ravenloft is evident in every one of your comments. The fact that I believe one of the articles for 4th edition D&D was stating that they built 4th edition tier system with the advent that they expected people to retire their characters before they even reached the epic tier, that speaks something already.
And anyhoo, if a handful of lords are low-epic (L21-24) then most epic play is still accommodated. It takes 30 seconds to adjust monsters up and down 5 levels. So a L23 Azalin could easily be tweaked for levels 18-28.
Actually, again, this is where your lack of knowledge on the demiplane shines through quite readily. The amount of will and evil to be a core domain lord would require them to be epic level in power. Since Ravenloft and the bastardization done by White Wolf was using rules that did not include the level spread that was present, you can not presume the levle spread as it stood in Ravenloft before the 4th edition, since you tried to railroad the "this is not second" monicker in a previous thread demonstrating your actual lcack of knowledge about Ravenloft as a whole previously. In this instance, beings such as Strahd would be the equivalent of epic levle beings, Strahd himself would be at least level 26, and I outlined the reasons why, which you obviously have not read, and Azalin would be almost assuredly 25+ placing closer to 28. Considering one of the things it says about darklords in the Core rulebook for Ravenloft is that Darklords are powerful, almost godlike in their power, I believe it's fairly easy to believe these characters are in the epic level ranges.
Tell that to Duke Gundar, Camille Boristi, the Black Wolf, and Claude Renier.
And you are pointing out characters that, in second edition, never had a level rating.
No, I think the players should be challenged. But adequately.
And again your knowledge of Ravenloft shows you don't know the setting very well at all.
Which has no bearing on their level.
A L23 lich is unstoppable to a L19 or 20 party. Advancing him to 28 just means he can be squished by a group of five L30 adventurers. And that puts him on par with the demon-god of gnolls, which Azalin certainly is not. L28 or 29 might have been fine for Vecna when he was imprisoned, but not Azalin.
Keep in mind L20 in 2e or 3e does not translate to L30 in 4e. It translates to 20 in 4e. Epic in 3e has simply been added to the Core books and the formerly optional stuff is now standard.
Again, you know very little aobut the setting or the characters within that setting to even present the idea. In you actually understood Ravenloft, you would actually know it's not typical D&D where players go after the big bad evil of the realm and vanquish it. Most of the time they won't even know Strahd is a vampire.
That’s nice.
I could say the same about any TSR publication as well.
Fact, and this one you will have to get over, the TSR publication is owned by WotC. Fact, White Wolf had to gut the majority of the WotC liscense to use it. Fact, it was not renewed and any future publication about Ravenloft ignored any continuation effect that Arthaus had even created.
Funny. Every single Ravenloft fan save two or three I have ever talked to in the last five years adores ArtHaus' Gazetteers. The game rules were ass, but the fluff was amazing. And now, with the rules obsolete, the books are even more valuable, opposed to most of the 2e stuff that was rules-heavy and ignorable.
And I can expect an uproar if they did retcon (the very few) additions from ArtHaus. To attract the maximum number of fans (both of the 2e and 3e versions of the setting) WotC would have to accommodate both or alienate half.
Now if that wasn't the biggest lie ever told. You really do not know Ravenloft and have no place commenting here, especially if you consider 2nd edition Ravenloft rules heavy. The crap spewed out by White Wolf had twice as many rules as the 2nd edition run so I suggest you get your facts straight before you pretend you know what you are talking about. Furthermore, I can already state with confidence that the 2nd edition version of Ravenloft sold better than the White Wolf run of it.
Yes. But the 3.5 book also didn't mention Azalin, the demiplane, or anything at all even remotely related to the Campaign setting.
That's a bit like saying "because Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins didn't mention Tehn or the Pale they won't be in a 4e Greyhawk book."
Yea, because it was only mentioning things relevant. Again I suggest you get the facts first.
He was a hereditary general. He wasn’t a Conan that was a former slave who fought his way up the ranks and became king by his own hand.
And generals, who stay back and direct troops, generally don’t see a lot of action themselves and, in-game, wouldn’t gain much xp.
Oi, Strahd fought in his wars, he wasn't the back field commander. In fact he was a soldier long before he was promoted to general. You previously talked about the history and fluff and stuff, but you don't know much about one of Ravenloft's most prominent figures.
Which is what Player Character Strahd would do in the campaign where you play General von Zarovich fighting off the Tergs.
Monster Strahd would be a straight solo monster that can have unique abilities unrelated to anything PC Strahd could ever do. Such as summoning undead.
But he could also have at-will powers that resemble PC powers, so he could have a warlord encounter power, a fighter encounter power, and a whole wad of necromantic powers similar to those of a wizard’s and cleric’s.
There is a lot Strahd could do since I've got about 25 books that could tell me rituals, ideas and much more just on Strahd alone.
Again, you obviously have never ran or particpated in a Ravenloft campaign if you believe any of that claptrap you just spat out. Ravenloft was a low-magic campaign setting, it was not a low powered one.
He very clearly has. That you keep repeating these accusations doesn't make them true. It just makes you guilty of the sort of ignorance that you accuse him of. Difference is that yours is willful ignorance.
Actually, for a correction since you evidently never had the books, Rudolf van Richten was a level 20 thief in teh red box. In the black box he was a levle 1 thief. So between blacka nd red box he gained 19 levels. Yes, he was epic level, so I suggest you review before commenting again.
Wildly incorrect on both counts. On page 114 of Realm of Terror (black box) he's a 3rd-level Thief. On page 91 of Domains and Denizens (red box) he's a 10th-level Thief. In Bleak House he's once again described as a 10th-level Thief. In Chilling Tales he's a 10th-level Thief. In the article The Sea Wolf in Dungeon #55, he was described as a 5th-level Thief. Rudolph Van Richten has never, ever, been described as being above 10th-level, let alone 20th-level.
The amount of will and evil to be a core domain lord would require them to be epic level in power.
There is no such requirement. Going by the red box...
Azalin is 18th-level
Ivana Boritsi is 0th-level (!)
Dominic d'Honaire is 7th-level
Ivan Dilisnya is 0th-level
Vlad Drakov is 14th-level
Hazlik is 12th-level
Sir Tristen Hiregaard/Malken is 7th-level
Harkon Lukas is 7th-level
Frantisek Markov is 0th-level
Victor Mordenheim is 0th-level
Yagno Petrova is 11th-level
Alfred Timothy is 6th-level
Count Strahd Von Zarovich is 16th-level
Certainly some of them can and should be epic level threats (Azalin and Strahd among them), but there's clearly no requirement that they be epic, as none of them are epic. In fact, out of all the ones which have levels, over half of them are below level 10, and 1/3rd of them are 0 level!
Though I will say, after getting a look at the epic rules in 4E, I'm not as concerned about their implementation into Ravenloft as I was beforehand. Beforehand, I heard things about being able to summon up hordes of dragons and so on. But aside from that, epic levels aren't so bad at all. Naturally Demigods wouldn't be an option. And there won't be any travel to the Astral Sea or Elemental Chaos (they're features of epic play, but not requirements). But there still could be a Shadowfell and Feywild version of Ravenloft, which would be fairly interesting.
As for "once per day, when you die...", I think that's great. Your character essnetially becomes a ghost. What's not to love about that? One can imagine seeing such a character working in the halls of a Darkonese university. A former adventuring scholar who's body was lost and is now trapped in his spirit form, unable to access the greater part of his powers, until he can find someone to properly resurrect him. Nevermind that it'd be an... interesting... way of exploring Il Aluk.
He very clearly has. That you keep repeating these accusations doesn't make them true. It just makes you guilty of the sort of ignorance that you accuse him of. Difference is that yours is willful ignorance.
Don't bother, he's not listening and obviously can't be bothered to fact-check himself. Not worth my time.
Though I will say, after getting a look at the epic rules in 4E, I'm not as concerned about their implementation into Ravenloft as I was beforehand. Beforehand, I heard things about being able to summon up hordes of dragons and so on. But aside from that, epic levels aren't so bad at all. Naturally Demigods wouldn't be an option. And there won't be any travel to the Astral Sea or Elemental Chaos (they're features of epic play, but not requirements). But there still could be a Shadowfell and Feywild version of Ravenloft, which would be fairly interesting.
As for "once per day, when you die...", I think that's great. Your character essnetially becomes a ghost. What's not to love about that? One can imagine seeing such a character working in the halls of a Darkonese university. A former adventuring scholar who's body was lost and is now trapped in his spirit form, unable to access the greater part of his powers, until he can find someone to properly resurrect him. Nevermind that it'd be an... interesting... way of exploring Il Aluk.
Well, personally, I wouldn't feel right running a paragon game with epic heroes. Sure they'll have epic powers, and be epic level, but if they're just fighting amped-up paragon threats and doing paragon stuff, it's not much of an epic game.
It's a bit disappointing if you're paragon level, and able to slaughter dragons, but you're still treated as nobodies and the adventure has you guarding caravans and protecting small hamlets. Same thing.
Funny. Every single Ravenloft fan save two or three I have ever talked to in the last five years adores ArtHaus' Gazetteers.
Now if that wasn't the biggest lie ever told. You really do not know Ravenloft and have no place commenting here, especially if you consider 2nd edition Ravenloft rules heavy. The crap spewed out by White Wolf had twice as many rules as the 2nd edition run so I suggest you get your facts straight before you pretend you know what you are talking about.
Honestly, to find a RL fan that hates that much the RL Arthaus era is somewhat unusual, as my experience is also that nearly all I know loved it (except of course the well known flawed books (CoD, PHB3.5, etc.), but basing a judgement solely on these books would be unfair).
But if you really want to set this matter about "this biggest lie ever told"
, that's something I could suggest for you: make a poll about this question! You can make polls at the FoS site, you're invited.
Fact, it was not renewed and any future publication about Ravenloft ignored any continuation effect that Arthaus had even created.
First, are you solely basing this "fact" on Expedition to CR?
One book?
That's the kind of "fact" you really think is solid?
Second, did you know the EtCR authors said EtCR was solely a remake of the stand alone adventure I6, and their focus not at all based on the RL setting?
From the online interview:
Why did you choose not to include any references to or materials from the larger Ravenloft campaign setting as developed in both 2nd edition (from TSR) and 3.0/3.5E (from S&S/Arthaus)? And was there anything from those that you would like to have added if you could?
The decision was to focus solely on I6,because it had more than enough information, obviously, to fill a 200+ page book with the new format and other information we included.
The idea was to revisit, reimagine, whatever... the original, classic adventure. It's been 20some years since that adventure shook up the D&D universe, which is longer than much of our audience has been alive. (Gasp!) We wanted to pass that experience on to the next generation!
So much of the focus of the later Ravenloft material was on lands beyond Barovia, I don't think there's a whole lot I would have looted. We were very tightly focused on Castle Ravenloft.
I did look at the House of Strahd adventure and the various implementations of Strahd's stat block as we went along, though.
I know there was a lot of good stuff in the expanded Ravenloft setting, but it just wasn't our focus.
Has the work that S&S did on the Ravenloft 3rd ed been used in revising the adventure, or was it ignored? Why?
As we noted earlier, we wanted to focus only on I6, so including anything that came after I6 would have messed up that vision.<
James> Well, as we said before, our focus for this book was almost entirely on Castle Ravenloft and the immediate surroundings--what's covered in the original I6. Yeah, what Bruce said.
Regards,
Joël
Saying Ravenloft doesn't lend itself well to an epic campaign setting is bull.
Yeah, and maybe you're a cow. Moo!
I enjoy trolls from time to time, but the ramblings of this one take too much time to read.