half-giants are LARGE, scary badasses, but pretty dumb :p
2) 4th ed has no ECL! in 3rd ed, ECL usually screwed characters up badly if they had racial hit dice.
IMHO, racial hit dice = bad, for characters. As it reduces their character abilities.
Hence, your minotaur hero, even with racial advantages, would be not nearly as effective as an equivalent fighter.
Thus, racial hit dice should not be used, IMHO, in 4th ed, if it can be avoided.
4th ed is about bonuses, not penalties. But some creatures are not very bright etc.
However, some form of ECL is needed for balancing powerful creatures. it's FUN to play some nasty critter, within limits, and half-giants are a valid character race in Dark Sun.
3) My suggestion for Dark Sun half-giants in 4th ed.
HALF-GIANT
SIZE = LARGE (reach 2)
Str +6, Con +6, Dex -2, Int -2 (min 5) Wis -2 (min 5) Cha -2
half-giants are incredibly strong and tough, but a bit dim and usnure of themselves around others.
Half-giants are 1 level lower than normal characters, due to their bonuses. Example, if the party is all level 2, a half-giant fighter should start at level 1.
Half-giants have an unstable aligment, tending to vary based on their companions. Thus, the general bent of their alignment is fixed on creation, but varies each day one step towards their comrade's mien.
For example a Lawful Good halfgiant, with Good friends, would veer to Good each day.
Racial ability: Unstoppable
Your bestial rage and enormous size let loose in an orgy of unstoppable destruction!
Encounter Minor
Gain resistance 2 to all attacks until end of your next turn
Equipment:
most human-sized armour and weapons cannot be used by halfgiants, except versatile and two handed wepaons, like greatswords, which can instead by used 1handed.
Halfgiants are so big they can use battleaxes as throwing axes (heavy thrown, range as per handaxe)
gear made for a halfgiant costs 5 times what it does for a human and gives the usual bonuses, though being Large sized, their weapons will have greater damage, as per rules for larger wepaons.
(note, double the cost for large creatures, as is often given in 3rd ed, is not sufficient, as a half giant has about 9 times the mass of a man! thus, sheer volume, rarity of suitable craftsmen etc, makes it expensive ot get gear).
They also use 9 times as much water as a human, however, they can carry far more equipment and provisions than ordinary folk can.
Half-giants tend to be around 10' tall, but extremely muscular, and with dark tan to brown skins.
They tend ot take on the habits of those aorund them, although socially a bit awkward, halfgiants make lasting friendships and are rarely decietful or cowardly. They favour the fighter class, rarely they maybe clerics
There are halfgiants who live by hunting, and would thus be suitable for the "Archer" Ranger using javelins or slings, rarely bows, but very few though, have the necessary dexterity and wits to be a Two-Blade Ranger.
When later Player's Handboks are relased, halfgiants would also be good barbarians, psychic warriors or even psions..
All 1/2 giants must have atleast 18 strenght and Constitution but may never start with higher than a 14 in Int and Dex or a 16 in other stats. after racial bonuses.
then give them a +4 Strenght, +4 Con.
they are also large and can carry double what a medium character can.
in 4e a hill giant only has a 21 strenght and even most huge giants dont get much past 25 so huge strenght bonuses are not needed.
hm, interesting take on that
*grabs his Monster Manual*
fire giant 23
hill giant 21
storm giant 30
Hm..well, an 18 Str character by lvl 12 could have 21 strength (and +3 to other stats).
Are there rules in 4th ed for carrying weights? in Dark Sun, water consumption and weight carrying are vital. Maybe go with the original boxed set for water consumption rates, but halfgiants can sure as heck carry more than x2 human weight!! ;)
otherwise, I think you maybe right in general, cheers mate!
so strenght 20 human carrys 200 without any real trouble and 400 for a short time say moveing furnature.
hmm mabye x3 for 1/2 giant then
the core books dont bother given modifiers to larger than human creatures for carrying simply due to it being a issue is so rare in most games its better just as a DM's call.
Ability Scores: +2 Stregth, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Giant
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Oversized: You can use weapons of your size or one size
larger than you as if they were your size. You also carry as much as a large creature, however in exchange you eat as much as a large creature
Unstable Alignment: Half-giants have an unstable alignment, tending to vary based on their companions. Thus, the general bent of their alignment is fixed on creation, but varies each day one step towards their comrade's mien.
Racial ability: Unstoppable
Your bestial rage and enormous size let loose in an orgy of unstoppable destruction!
Encounter Minor
Gain resistance 2 to all attacks until end of your next turn
*edited for brain fart, cha instead of str*
+4 Str, +2 Con
Half Giants are large and use weapons as a large creature
That's it, no special abilities. Humans only get one +2, Half-Giants can have three, and make up for it by giving up special abilities. The only special ability that they have in the DS book is extra hp. If the above HG proves to be too weak they can be given some bonus hp either per level or at first level.
I haven't found much specific on what the effects of a size transition are, like it was enumerated in 3.5. I haven't spent an enormous amount of time with the MM yet, however. And it might be buried in the DMG.
But, at the very least, large gets you: reach 2, and bigger weapons.
Now, MAYBE, it'll work out alright, with just reach and the bigger weapons, plus a modest (not 3.5 extent) bonus to str and con. But, remembering what a headache players with reach can be, I'm not confident.
+2 Str, +2 Con, Half Giants are large (with all associated weapon, carrying capacity, water/food requirements, etc...), Half Giants can change alignment each morning.
in dark sun all the races will be stronger than in the bace game add a extra +2 somewhere and a Psion power to each of them to make them fit the setting.
so 1/2 giant with +4 Strenght and +4 Constitution isent that much better than humans who will have +2 to two diffrent stats and mabye a extra bonuse or two on that.
in dark sun all the races will be stronger than in the base game
I'm not sure that needs to be true for 4E
In 4E all the races are already designed to be stronger, and the 1st level characters aren't so helpless. I don't really see the need for starting at 3rd level in 4E
4E is a lot more like dark sun when it comes to starting characters
then again all pc's will need some sorta wild talent abilitys eventualy if we want to retain that aspect of the setting so they will be a bit stronger.
And if we can fit half giants in, the rest are easy.
And if we can fit half giants in, the rest are easy.
Well half-giants and thri-kreen and aarakocra!
Wild talents? Training into psion. Taking a class that way is not necesarly 'training', fluff wise...
I'd like a fourth ed. version of the Tri-kreen myself, nice 'alien' race.
aarakocra... well that's a tough nut to crack. 4E in very stingy with flight. Though limiting it to overland flight (aka zero aerial combat) and giving a speed of 6 might do the trick.
And lose any stat penalties, in line with 4th ed.
no racial "ability" (their strength and size is that) so remove the "Unstoppable" power.
so +4 Str/Con. Large size, Rach 2.
Until further info, go with RL common sense stuff based on mass and simplification. Halfgiants have about x8 to x10 Human mass beng 10' to 12' high, but also massively built, (double size 2x2x2= 8, but for simplicty and massive build say x10).
base gear cost of size so x10 cost for gear. That cost and water useage is a penalty in DS!!
Halfgiants NEED Large sized equipment, non large sized weapons give -2 hit penalty. (in 4th ed most penalties are -2 as standard, or -5 if severe).
Human 2 hand wepaons can be used 1 handed at that penalty.
A greatsword would still have too thin a handle etc for halfgiant comfort, though they would use it 1 handed.
ALso, size is a problem, they'd be "squeezing" or whaetever in many instances, as Human builngs are moslty 7' to 10' ceiling, so DM's need ot kepe note on that. Simpel rule would this:
Halfgint size means that unless a roof is 15' or more high, they suffer a -2 attack penalty due ot insufficent space, unless they use a Light weapon.
ALignment left ot a "fluff" item. As IMHO, it is more like long term ethical shifts than morals.
So, new rules in toto
HALF-GIANT
SIZE = LARGE (reach 2)
Str +4, Con +4,
half-giants are incredibly strong and tough, but tend to be a bit dim and usnure of themselves around others.
No penalty to other scores, but using methods #1 and #2 for stats will keep personality scores low anyway, usually.
Half-giants are 1 level lower than normal characters, due to their bonuses. Example, if the party is all level 2, a half-giant fighter should start at level 1.
Half-giants have an unstable aligment, tending to vary based on their companions. Thus, the general bent of their alignment is fixed on creation, but varies each day one step towards their comrade's mien.
For example a Lawful Good halfgiant, with Good friends, would veer to Good each day.
Racial ability: Unstoppable
Your bestial rage and enormous size let loose in an orgy of unstoppable destruction!
Encounter Minor
Gain resistance 2 to all attacks until end of your next turn
Equipment:
most human-sized armour cannot be used by halfgiants.
Human sized weapons can be used where appropriate but with a -2 penalty.
Twohanded human melee wepaons can be used 1 handed, but with the usual -2 penalty.
Halfgiants require specially built arms and armour for their size and mass.
Gear made for a halfgiant costs 10 times what it does for a human and gives the usual bonuses, though being Large sized, their weapons will have greater damage, as per rules for larger weapons.
Typically many free halfgiants are only armed with a large greatclub or large spear, due to the cost.
However, those wealthy enough to have halfgiant guards and slaves usually go to the trouble of suitably equipping them to get best use from them.
Most halfgiant guards have hide or leather armour, and a large morningstar, or large spear, or a heavy shield and large battleaxe or large mace.
(note, double the cost for large creatures, as is often given in 3rd ed, is not sufficient, as a half giant has about 10 times the mass of a man! thus, sheer volume, rarity of suitable craftsmen etc, makes it expensive ot get gear).
They also use 10 times as much water as a human, however, they can carry 10 times the weight of equipment and provisions than ordinary folk can.
Their gear weighs x10 normal.
Half-giants tend to be around 10' to 12' tall, but extremely muscular, and with dark tan to brown skins.
They tend ot take on the habits of those around them, although socially a bit awkward, halfgiants make lasting friendships and are rarely decietful or cowardly. They favour the fighter class, rarely they maybe clerics.
There are halfgiants who live by hunting, and would thus be suitable for the "Archer" Ranger using javelins or slings, rarely bows, but very few though, have the necessary dexterity and wits to be a Two-Blade Ranger.
When later Player's Handboks are relased, halfgiants would also be good barbarians, psychic warriors or even psions..
that seem ok?
see the DMG for damage tables for creating NPCs etc.
simply by letting them lift and carry a much larger amount compared to other beings of there strenght will give the impression of strong creatures without vastly inflateing there attack and damage rolls.
something like 1/2 giants due to there size and dense musctles can lift and carry 4 times a normal humans carrying capacity.
this makes them super strong without giveing them huge combat bonuses.
I was never a fan of 12' tall half-giants, so the first is a medium-sized version.
Half-Giant
Average Height: 7'6"-8'
Average Weight: 350-400 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Giant Fury: When you are bloodied, you gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls.
Oversized: You can use weapons of your size or one size larger than you as if they were your size.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.
If you are fan of the large size, then there is this.
Half-Giant
Average Height: 10'-12'
Average Weight: 1400-1600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Large: You have a reach of 2, may use weapons of your size and your base unarmed attack is 1d6. Also, your carrying capacity is doubled.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.