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3.5 and epic rules

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ferratus
Jun 23, 2003 2:32:02 Well, it seems that 3.5 will include a few pages to take the players into their 5th epic level (level 25).

Does this mean then that Gellidus and Sable are no longer untouchable? Perhaps this means that an epic campaign can be built around the destruction of Sable. (Despite Chris' assurances, I still can't conceive of Gellidus as an epic villain.)

Would anyone be interested in such a uber-high level campaign? If so, what would you do with the area when these massively powerful creatures are gone?
#2
sweetmeats
Jun 23, 2003 7:18:26 I'm not convinced that the Epic level rules work with Dragonlance. It just doesn't seem to fit the feel of the setting.
#3
cam_banks
Jun 23, 2003 7:43:35 Not only Gellidus and Sable, but Cinder, Fume, Pitch, Pyro, Ice & Freeze, etc etc etc. Many mighty dragons to worry about. Perfect opportunity for Joe Epic to mix it up with the big bads.

Of course, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather the mid-level PCs who're around 12th-15th level end up defeating these foes through other means, as is the usual method in Dragonlance.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
ferratus
Jun 24, 2003 17:39:20
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Not only Gellidus and Sable, but Cinder, Fume, Pitch, Pyro, Ice & Freeze, etc etc etc. Many mighty dragons to worry about. Perfect opportunity for Joe Epic to mix it up with the big bads.

If my favourites Fume, Thunder and Iyesta are still around, I'm not going to write an adventure killing them! Cinder on the other hand... ;)

Of course, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather the mid-level PCs who're around 12th-15th level end up defeating these foes through other means, as is the usual method in Dragonlance.

I'm not a big fan of epic levels myself, both because I overdose on the uberness and because after 12 or 13 levels I start yearning for a new and different character much less 20.

12th level you say? That sounds about right for my "City of the Sun" adventure roasting Gellidus. ;) Of course, that's probably the only dragon in the setting that I currently feel "absolutely has to die". Cinder, Pyro, Pitch Ice and Freeze are generally one-shot adventure villains for high level play. Fume, Thunder, and Sable, I feel, could carry an entire campaign.

See, what differs Sable from Gellidus is that Sable is reclusive and clever. Thus, she took the delta valley where the Thon-Thalas meets the Newsea, then used her plant growth ability to create a completely new ecosystem filled with her created creatures. She is also surrounded by several hostile neighbours such as Blode, Abanasania, Sanction, Iyesta, Blodeheim and the New Coast. So what you have then is opportunity to fight her agents in the neigbouring lands at low levels, then her creatures, and you are inexorably drawn into her swamp and towards greater and greater horrors. Then finally you would meet Sable herself, and her lair in the middle of the heart of darkness.

Gellidus in contrast has no agents, no horrors. He just sleeps in the snow until he feels like he should wake up and go terrorize people.

Fume can carry an entire campaign because he is both an nasty threat of evil, yet a competant ruler presiding over traditionally hostile enemies that are making the woods and mountains of Larue a generally pleasant place to live. Sort of like a Doctor Doom kind of thing. So what the adventurers are fighting against there is a gilded cage. Plotlines galore can flow from that.

See, so the dragonlords and overlords not only need a personality, but a personality that makes them condusive for a storyline that cannot be resolved by simply becoming as powerful as they are (or in Cam's case coming up with a suitable artifact) but so that it is a character that will be remembered by your players after you triumph over it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ferratus Jun 23, 2003 2:32:02	Well, it seems that 3.5 will include a few pages to take the players into their 5th epic level (level 25). Does this mean then that Gellidus and Sable are no longer untouchable? Perhaps this means that an epic campaign can be built around the destruction of Sable. (Despite Chris' assurances, I still can't conceive of Gellidus as an epic villain.) Would anyone be interested in such a uber-high level campaign? If so, what would you do with the area when these massively powerful creatures are gone?
#2 sweetmeats Jun 23, 2003 7:18:26	I'm not convinced that the Epic level rules work with Dragonlance. It just doesn't seem to fit the feel of the setting.
#3 cam_banks Jun 23, 2003 7:43:35	Not only Gellidus and Sable, but Cinder, Fume, Pitch, Pyro, Ice & Freeze, etc etc etc. Many mighty dragons to worry about. Perfect opportunity for Joe Epic to mix it up with the big bads. Of course, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather the mid-level PCs who're around 12th-15th level end up defeating these foes through other means, as is the usual method in Dragonlance. Cheers, Cam
#4 ferratus Jun 24, 2003 17:39:20	Originally posted by Cam Banks Not only Gellidus and Sable, but Cinder, Fume, Pitch, Pyro, Ice & Freeze, etc etc etc. Many mighty dragons to worry about. Perfect opportunity for Joe Epic to mix it up with the big bads. If my favourites Fume, Thunder and Iyesta are still around, I'm not going to write an adventure killing them! Cinder on the other hand... ;) Of course, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather the mid-level PCs who're around 12th-15th level end up defeating these foes through other means, as is the usual method in Dragonlance. I'm not a big fan of epic levels myself, both because I overdose on the uberness and because after 12 or 13 levels I start yearning for a new and different character much less 20. 12th level you say? That sounds about right for my "City of the Sun" adventure roasting Gellidus. ;) Of course, that's probably the only dragon in the setting that I currently feel "absolutely has to die". Cinder, Pyro, Pitch Ice and Freeze are generally one-shot adventure villains for high level play. Fume, Thunder, and Sable, I feel, could carry an entire campaign. See, what differs Sable from Gellidus is that Sable is reclusive and clever. Thus, she took the delta valley where the Thon-Thalas meets the Newsea, then used her plant growth ability to create a completely new ecosystem filled with her created creatures. She is also surrounded by several hostile neighbours such as Blode, Abanasania, Sanction, Iyesta, Blodeheim and the New Coast. So what you have then is opportunity to fight her agents in the neigbouring lands at low levels, then her creatures, and you are inexorably drawn into her swamp and towards greater and greater horrors. Then finally you would meet Sable herself, and her lair in the middle of the heart of darkness. Gellidus in contrast has no agents, no horrors. He just sleeps in the snow until he feels like he should wake up and go terrorize people. Fume can carry an entire campaign because he is both an nasty threat of evil, yet a competant ruler presiding over traditionally hostile enemies that are making the woods and mountains of Larue a generally pleasant place to live. Sort of like a Doctor Doom kind of thing. So what the adventurers are fighting against there is a gilded cage. Plotlines galore can flow from that. See, so the dragonlords and overlords not only need a personality, but a personality that makes them condusive for a storyline that cannot be resolved by simply becoming as powerful as they are (or in Cam's case coming up with a suitable artifact) but so that it is a character that will be remembered by your players after you triumph over it.