I think some time ago, there was someone, who proposed to join efforts to get some lexicon or compendium together.
The idea was, that while reading a novel, you note down every person mentioned by name in the novel with (as far as mentioned) some notes about his/her race, gender, class, rank, deeds, appearance, crests/clan, date of birth and death incl. how they died (or by whom) and the novel, where they are mentioned.
Other stuff would be inns, villages, sites, ships, organizations etc. mentioned with also a brief description.
While reading a novel one surely steps upon some interesting details concerning a certain people, nation or race... I'd say that it's possible to deal with a novel in this way in about 2 pages (US Letter).
While it's strange at the beginning to have a pencil an paper while reading, it doesn't hurt that much the joy...
Well, I've done it with the last of my readings ("reavers of the blood sea") and it works!
Perhaps someone's interested in compiling the stuff (Trampas?Cam?John?Christopher) till we have an assorted lexicon to hand over to sovereign press to make something out of it - or leave it as a free net-based compendium on dragonlance.com.
So what about it?
Greets and regards,
M's Claw
Is anyone else interested in this kind of project, or does someone (i.e. Granak) already have this done?
Originally posted by Eidolon
Is anyone else interested in this kind of project, or does someone (i.e. Granak) already have this done?
There was an Encyclopedia project started by TSR years ago, prior to SAGA. While it covers a lot, it isn't up to date.
I've talked with Paladin some on the idea of an encyclopedia project, perhaps in a different format, so that there is one cohesive entry for each character, place, etc.
We had a lady contact us on this at one point, but I haven't heard from her since.
Basically, I'd love to have an encyclopedia up on DL.com, that had comprehensive entries of all the people, places, and things of DL. At the moment, we don't have the resources to pursue such a project.
I'm open to ideas and suggestions.
What about this:
I offer to receive and store any contributions made by anyone wanting to participate in the project.
With some time, we should be able to gather some information.
I could prepare the stuff roughly till we got someone with time and knowledge to edit the Lexicon (utmost an non MS-Word layout and honing the use of the english language).
If there is enough assembled for a first version Trampas will put it on Dragonlance.com with perhaps the effect, that more of the community will contribute. (I guess starting such a project ex nihilo with the whole community will choke it from the beginning..)
Comments?
M's Claw, willful german archivist for the compendium to come
I'll probably start this week, but the note-gathering will take awhile. Heh.
In order for this to succeed, we're going to need a few things.
1. Dedicated people - This means having someone (or a group of people) who is willing to read every DL novel, every gaming product, etc. and write an entry for it. This is a HUGE project, and will require lots of time. I consider this project to be a long-term one (read: years).
2. Standardized format. Each entry must look the same, and be easily readable. Paladin and I had talked some on this. We were thinking about 750 words per entry, although we may up it to 1,000.
3. Attention to Detail - This can't be sloppy. You have to be very thorough. This may be where Granak's timeline comes into play.
You get the idea.
Provided that the above can be met (especially #1), then I'd be willing to open up an area on DL.com for such a project. This would not only gain a lot of viewers, but also a lot of notoriety for the individuals involved.
I will, of course, have to talk to Paladin about the details.
Basically, we need somebody we can count on to do this sort of project. We haven't had that yet, so I'm a bit nervous about such a project, especially considering how huge it would be.
I'd like for this Encyclopedia/Lexicon to replace the old one, and be open as a resource for both fans, Sov. Press, and WotC.
Anyway, please continue this discussion. Paladin and I will talk tonight, and we'll see where this goes.
Thanks for the interest, everyone!
1. Dedicated people - This means having someone (or a group of people) who is willing to read every DL novel, every gaming product, etc. and write an entry for it. This is a HUGE project, and will require lots of time. I consider this project to be a long-term one (read: years).
Oh yeah. I can't stress this enough. IT is a huge project, and a never ending one. When i started working on my own timeline, I didn't have a clue how much time and effort was really needed. I started in 2000, and i'm still working on it. Everytime a new book comes out, that's new information. And we're not even going into books like Bretrem's Guides which are nearly encyclopedias in themselves. John grubber and many others tried starting a project like an encyclopedia after TSR/WotC/Saga. I wish everyone luck on this, because honestly the thought of re-reading every book *again* to help with an encyclopedia as well as my timeline hurts my brain. :-)
3. Attention to Detail - This can't be sloppy. You have to be very thorough. This may be where Granak's timeline comes into play.
Heh. Well, thanks, I think. I personally consider my timeline sloppy, especially since i didn't have a clue what I was getting myself into. As a timeline, I'd had revise parts once an inconsistency was found. A wise friend pointed out that citing your source is really important, and don't plagerize. people can be sued for it. Make sure credit and your bibliographies are accurate. That means, if neccessary, you might need to include page numbers and book. And then compile a bibliography. And give authors and designers their due. It's an important lesson. My bibliography for the timeline will be at least 16 pages, and still isn't finished and that's causing me at least a 6 month delay on updating my timeline.
I'd also like to propose
4. Canon and Inconsistency determination and politics involved.
One of the problems i faced in my timeline is figuring out how to deal with inconsistencies. Do i pretend they don't exist? do i choose one over another? How do i deal with complaints by those who wished I'd choosen differently? What happens when i get completely conflicting material, or philisophical issues? A good example would be Darkness and Light. How would you include Kitiara and Sturm's trip to the moon? would you include it at all? You can see different sides of the issue begin arguing about it.
Personally, with my timeline, i made a rule that I'd include everything with an official stamp from TSR/WotC. No exceptions. So Tracy's unofficial DL adventure won't be included (even tho it's an awesome module). D&L would be included. DL computer games, modules and comic books go in. Fan material and fan fiction won't be included. I'd present the source as its own set of facts. If there were inconsistencies, I'd make a "granak's notes" which would be places where i can mention the inconsistencies, what other material causes the inconsistency (it usually takes two or more sources) as well as point out personal beliefs of what i think, and hopefully present various sides of the inconsistency and why people believe what they believe. You can see from my entries, a synopsis of D&L's plot is written into the timeline accurately. I then follow up with a Granak's note which has his in-world opinion (which can be dead wrong to official rules, and allow some to ignore my opinion) and a reporting of what other scholars feel about the story. (i.e. getting everyone's viewpoint.)
Those were my own personal rules set up for one guy doing one project. It'll be different for a group project like an encyclopedia instead of an in-world timeline. But i think whatever rules of inconsistency should be set up immediately so everyone is on the same "page" as it were.
I wish everyone interested good luck. if you need help, I'll see what I can do.
Granak Red-Silver
I'm a bit worried about "setting canon", as it were. I want this to be open to both creators and fans, and I don't want our opinions on things to mislead anyone, or cause anyone to get upset if their favorite story isn't considered canon.
However, there will be inconsistencies. Perhaps some sort of entry with a primary section, and a secondary for things that are inconsistent.
Hrm...lots to think about.
Btw, Trampas, when you say 700-1000 word entries, what kind of entry are you referring to? I'm assuming setting wide where we have:
Laurana
Found in: source x, source y, source z, etc.
Description: a mix of all information of all sources above.
Originally posted by Richard Connery
Btw, Trampas, when you say 700-1000 word entries, what kind of entry are you referring to? I'm assuming setting wide where we have:
Laurana
Found in: source x, source y, source z, etc.
Description: a mix of all information of all sources above.
Paladin and I haven't settled on a format yet, but your example is pretty much what we're thinking.
Just something that tells who the person is, what sources their info comes from, and a summary of their life.
Thanks, Richard!
Trampas and I haven't had a chance to discuss yet, but you all make very good points. In my mind, the basics of any such project would be to include a short write-up (750 - 1000 words) on any particular subject. Each write-up would be in Encyclopedia format (3rd person, etc.), and would be required to include references to any product(s) where the information was found.
I'm not sure I want to get into the canon debate, so the best course may be to use the source as the determining factor... In other words, based on the source used those reading it could make their own determination of the reliability of the information.
As for opening the project up... Initially, I think it should be a core group, but once it begins to expand and certain people put together the "core" articles, then I would like to see the public at large submit articles that haven't already been included by the core team... and, honestly, DL is too big for only a select few to be able to make any meaningful progress.
Just some initial thoughts. Trampas and I will discuss further and hopefully we can flesh this out a bit more soon.
I just need a mail adress to send my notes to, and we can let that be a start.
Any comments?
Even though I don't have that much free time, I'd be glad to be of help. :D
I think I have done only a very summarized work though...
Well, 750-1000 words per entry is a real giant task.
My notes so far look more like this:
Wastryk Kite (H ♂)
„The Black Kite“ of Haven, 2-1 PC pupil of Fistandantilus, WotBR in Haven, † 37 AC [killed by Paulus Thwait (smith)]
- Fistandantilus Reborn
or
„Graying Jasi“ (M ♀)
Captain of the ship „Kraken’s Eye“, mate of Hugar, mother of three children (one already captain), killed by Magori in the Chaoswar (grayfurred)
- Reavers of the Blood Sea
For the bibliographical reference, I think that important characters can't be pinned downed to certain pages (think of Caramon even post-Chaoswar!). For minor personalities though, it has some merit.
I'd be glad to contribute and I won't stop now taking notes on the books I read for the first time/again cause I already noticed, that doing this provides me with delicious little bits of info in the details like iron being a favored minotaur symbol for stranght and durability (well, ok, that's what iron is made for, but like this it gets a cultural flavour!).
I've started a similar topic on the "official" german board and I hope to get their lots thrown in as well to further the project under the tutelage of Paladin.
Happily,
M's Claw
http://www.dreadgazebo.com/astinus/
Well, with some minor bibliographical amendments it would be a cool start IMO!
Greets,
M's Claw
Matt and I talked some last night, and I think we have the beginnings of a plan going on. I think we're going to start with a small group at first, and then open it up later on for more people to get involved.
More as we get going!
When it comes to reaccuring characters, you could leave it to the designated editors or the readers to collate the information on them.
I think by splitting the load amonst multiple people, You'll have a better chance at getting all the info!
I think by splitting the load amonst multiple people, You'll have a better chance at getting all the info!
Well, that's the thing, one would assume that the detail is as detailed as everyone would like it.
I ran into the same sort of thing. my timeline could have been finished years ago if i split up the work and if I asked several people to go to certain parts of Krynn's history. However, I found that it's not that simple.
There's always the point where the more people work on a project, the greater the chance someone will miss something. the manager can't be reading everything himself, he's busy organizing everyone). other people have their own assignments, so they won't be catching any mistakes. Hence, projects start gathering "tester/QA" to catch any mistakes. While all that is going on, there are people in the public who will catch mistakes and begin questioning whether the project is in competent hands.
To me, a part of my timeline is also tracking inconsistencies among various works. It's harder me as a human to catalog inconsistencies if i have one person only reading Elven Nations and another only reading Dwarven Nations, and both don't realise there are inconsistencies between them. To make sure I got what i wanted, I would have to end up reading both those trilogies anyway. In the end, I felt it was clear that if i was going to check everything anyway, I might as well just do it myself and pay the cost of a longer involved project. And let my "testing/QA" be the fans in general. I've got plenty of people emailing me about how "wrong" i could be with my timeline. That's one of the reasons the timeline is up on my website but clearly unfinished but publically available. There's always some new thing that makes be go back and check. A perfect example would be DL8 and the Kingpriest trilogy. I went back and made a note that DL8 refers to Kurnos as having died in the cataclysm playing Yarus, but also pointing out that this inconsistency may simply be caused by the inherant inaccuracy of a game module over a novel, etc. etc. etc.
(and thanks for everyone who noticed that. I missed the references myself. that's more my timeline work for me.
)Now, i'm not trying to discourage anyone, but i just want to prepare people. Just be prepared for any missed material and be ready to adapt and quickly compensate if people send in comments about missed material.