Prestige Races? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Prestige Races?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jun 24, 2003 16:16:08 I don't get Dragon magazine, however I've been seeing people talk about something called prestige races. From the sounds of it, they seem to be related to transformation-based prestige classes. I'm wondering if they are just another name for the same thing, or is there some other subtle differences? I'm assuming it's working off some of the ideas presented in Savage Species, of course.
#2
Shei-Nad
Jun 24, 2003 17:29:48 No, not in Savage Species, unless I missed that part.

I'm not sure what that is either, since I don't read Dragon. Why not just make templates for races?

Its a good question though... anyone could point us to the reference for prestige races?
#3
nytcrawlr
Jun 24, 2003 20:56:43 Only thing I have seen them in is Dragon, can't remember what issue though, will look it up when I get home.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2003 21:05:26 Templates can be a little rigid (at least most of the racial ones I've seen). At level X you gain ability Y, with no counter balancing penalty associated. Also, most templates are designed to be taken at the start of a new character.

A prestige race is simple a race (from the magazine, it is any race) that takes the Scultp Self feat (in my setting, yuan-ti and naga both gin this feat for free). From that point, they can spend experience points to gain different abilities, most of which also cause the race to undergo a transformation. Its far too simplistic to use for Advanced Beings. The reason why I liked the concept is that the PC cannot spend so many experience points that he would drop a level. This regulates excactly when the ealiest a PC gain gain a transformation, but not how late. It restricts the PC, but offers a freedom at the same time. Assuming the PC adventures with the same party through out his or her career, he would be lower in level if he continuously purchases new abilities and transformations.

The nice thing about the system is that you can use a branching method when creating new abilities. An example would be:

After purchasing base skill A for the 'transformation group', the PC has opened the option to purchase from ability group B. Once a skill from group B is gained, then C, then D. By routing the pathways from one group to another, you can tailor and customize the groups (as a DM) to fit your campaign, and the player has then the freedom of creating a truly unique PC based on his or her choices. You could reverse the method, add extra ability clusters, or do say it all bites and scrap the whole dang thing anyhow.

I just thought it fit in my setting as a way to make 2 of my PC races truly unique from both the core rules and the DS core. Plus, it added a nice twist to the generic versions of both races (Naga and Yuan-ti) that give them depth. Also, at least in my setting, not every race can gain the scultp self feat that allows access to prestige race alterations. Certain circumstances may allow for it, but not general characters at the start of a new campaign.

Btw, the article from Dragon is OGL, meaning the mechanics are able to be used freely, posted up, printed out, used by other publishers, etc. Hopefully Dragon starts doing doing this on a regular basis. The only other game I know of that uses prestige races is Oathbound: Secrets of the Forge (there are likely a few others, but that was the first one I had seen to have them and I eagerly await picking up this morbid and bizarre book).
#5
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jun 24, 2003 23:21:21
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
No, not in Savage Species, unless I missed that part.

I'm not sure what that is either, since I don't read Dragon. Why not just make templates for races?

Its a good question though... anyone could point us to the reference for prestige races?

They are from Dragon magazine. What I meant is maybe it's a derived concept by combining the idea of "monster classes" to make "prestige races", much as how there are base & prestige classes. I was just curious about more information on the subject.
#6
Pennarin
Mar 25, 2004 2:50:48 Using the right combination of words in the search engine, I found about six threads that mentionned prestige races, none that offered new abilities.
Mach's thread is included in the lot, although I couldn't find an XP cost for his abilities.

So it means people don't like it and don't want to share about it.

Anyway right now, since I'm utterly drained of imagination and can't write my Farcluun write-up fpr FoA for a while, I'm adapting the prestige races concept more in the line of what xlorep said, for something I'm working on.

Class - Prestige Class
Race - Prestige Race
Any Race - Prestige Race (transformational)

So I end up having this PC race that can take racial levels in its own 3-level racial class (a concept fom Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed: A Variant Player's Handbook), and can if it has prerequisites (mainly levels in the racial class) get levels in another 3-level racial class, making it a prestige racial class (not to confuse with racial prestige classes, from Races of Faerun).

Free racial levels for all generic-D&D races are made to download on Monte's site, Malhavoc Press. The stuff is OGC in its entirety.
#7
Kamelion
Mar 25, 2004 3:05:24
So I end up having this PC race that can take racial levels in its own 3-level racial class (a concept fom Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed: A Variant Player's Handbook), and can if it has prerequisites (mainly levels in the racial class) get levels in another 3-level racial class, making it a prestige racial class (not to confuse with racial prestige classes, from Races of Faerun).

Cool ideas - keeps it all class-based and easy to calculate. Monte's racial classes were snapped up for UA as well but they're called paragon classes in there. I had it mind to rustle up some DS-specific versions of these but gotta get ToA stowed first.

I've also been thinkin about using prestige races from Dragon to create advanced beings, but like Mach says it's a tad tricky. To accurately represent a fully-transformed dragon, you'd need a lot of these alterations which might end up just being too expensive in xp. There's always the option that the metamorphosis spell might help in this respect (allow you to apply several alterations at once or decrease the xp xost depending on how many hd of creatures or magic items you sacrifice - not too sure about the balance on that, though...)

Times like this I wish I were a Beeblebrox. The extra head would really come in handy - heh.
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 25, 2004 4:26:58
Times like this I wish I were a Beeblebrox. The extra head would really come in handy - heh

Trying to work out 4 different styles of yuan-ti in prestige race fashion left me spouting off like Marvin . . .

I still like the idea of them, its just not my type of design work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jun 24, 2003 16:16:08	I don't get Dragon magazine, however I've been seeing people talk about something called prestige races. From the sounds of it, they seem to be related to transformation-based prestige classes. I'm wondering if they are just another name for the same thing, or is there some other subtle differences? I'm assuming it's working off some of the ideas presented in Savage Species, of course.
#2 Shei-Nad Jun 24, 2003 17:29:48	No, not in Savage Species, unless I missed that part. I'm not sure what that is either, since I don't read Dragon. Why not just make templates for races? Its a good question though... anyone could point us to the reference for prestige races?
#3 nytcrawlr Jun 24, 2003 20:56:43	Only thing I have seen them in is Dragon, can't remember what issue though, will look it up when I get home.
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2003 21:05:26	Templates can be a little rigid (at least most of the racial ones I've seen). At level X you gain ability Y, with no counter balancing penalty associated. Also, most templates are designed to be taken at the start of a new character. A prestige race is simple a race (from the magazine, it is any race) that takes the Scultp Self feat (in my setting, yuan-ti and naga both gin this feat for free). From that point, they can spend experience points to gain different abilities, most of which also cause the race to undergo a transformation. Its far too simplistic to use for Advanced Beings. The reason why I liked the concept is that the PC cannot spend so many experience points that he would drop a level. This regulates excactly when the ealiest a PC gain gain a transformation, but not how late. It restricts the PC, but offers a freedom at the same time. Assuming the PC adventures with the same party through out his or her career, he would be lower in level if he continuously purchases new abilities and transformations. The nice thing about the system is that you can use a branching method when creating new abilities. An example would be: After purchasing base skill A for the 'transformation group', the PC has opened the option to purchase from ability group B. Once a skill from group B is gained, then C, then D. By routing the pathways from one group to another, you can tailor and customize the groups (as a DM) to fit your campaign, and the player has then the freedom of creating a truly unique PC based on his or her choices. You could reverse the method, add extra ability clusters, or do say it all bites and scrap the whole dang thing anyhow. I just thought it fit in my setting as a way to make 2 of my PC races truly unique from both the core rules and the DS core. Plus, it added a nice twist to the generic versions of both races (Naga and Yuan-ti) that give them depth. Also, at least in my setting, not every race can gain the scultp self feat that allows access to prestige race alterations. Certain circumstances may allow for it, but not general characters at the start of a new campaign. Btw, the article from Dragon is OGL, meaning the mechanics are able to be used freely, posted up, printed out, used by other publishers, etc. Hopefully Dragon starts doing doing this on a regular basis. The only other game I know of that uses prestige races is Oathbound: Secrets of the Forge (there are likely a few others, but that was the first one I had seen to have them and I eagerly await picking up this morbid and bizarre book).
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jun 24, 2003 23:21:21	Originally posted by Shei-Nad No, not in Savage Species, unless I missed that part. I'm not sure what that is either, since I don't read Dragon. Why not just make templates for races? Its a good question though... anyone could point us to the reference for prestige races? They are from Dragon magazine. What I meant is maybe it's a derived concept by combining the idea of "monster classes" to make "prestige races", much as how there are base & prestige classes. I was just curious about more information on the subject.
#6 Pennarin Mar 25, 2004 2:50:48	Using the right combination of words in the search engine, I found about six threads that mentionned prestige races, none that offered new abilities. Mach's thread is included in the lot, although I couldn't find an XP cost for his abilities. So it means people don't like it and don't want to share about it. Anyway right now, since I'm utterly drained of imagination and can't write my Farcluun write-up fpr FoA for a while, I'm adapting the prestige races concept more in the line of what xlorep said, for something I'm working on. Class - Prestige Class Race - Prestige Race Any Race - Prestige Race (transformational) So I end up having this PC race that can take racial levels in its own 3-level racial class (a concept fom Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed: A Variant Player's Handbook), and can if it has prerequisites (mainly levels in the racial class) get levels in another 3-level racial class, making it a prestige racial class (not to confuse with racial prestige classes, from Races of Faerun). Free racial levels for all generic-D&D races are made to download on Monte's site, Malhavoc Press. The stuff is OGC in its entirety.
#7 Kamelion Mar 25, 2004 3:05:24	So I end up having this PC race that can take racial levels in its own 3-level racial class (a concept fom Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed: A Variant Player's Handbook), and can if it has prerequisites (mainly levels in the racial class) get levels in another 3-level racial class, making it a prestige racial class (not to confuse with racial prestige classes, from Races of Faerun). Cool ideas - keeps it all class-based and easy to calculate. Monte's racial classes were snapped up for UA as well but they're called paragon classes in there. I had it mind to rustle up some DS-specific versions of these but gotta get ToA stowed first. I've also been thinkin about using prestige races from Dragon to create advanced beings, but like Mach says it's a tad tricky. To accurately represent a fully-transformed dragon, you'd need a lot of these alterations which might end up just being too expensive in xp. There's always the option that the metamorphosis spell might help in this respect (allow you to apply several alterations at once or decrease the xp xost depending on how many hd of creatures or magic items you sacrifice - not too sure about the balance on that, though...) Times like this I wish I were a Beeblebrox. The extra head would really come in handy - heh.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 4:26:58	Times like this I wish I were a Beeblebrox. The extra head would really come in handy - heh Trying to work out 4 different styles of yuan-ti in prestige race fashion left me spouting off like Marvin . . . I still like the idea of them, its just not my type of design work.