And what about divine spellcasting? Loralon was surely able to recite his prayers in Elvish, so didn't he cast spells in the Elven-tongue as well?
What are your thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Cam
Plus, Onyx in Xak Tsaroth says to Raistlin (when she has him pinned under claw) not to cast "any magic, because I know the language". By introducing a new language, you are forcing them to spend a language slot to not only cast magic, but also to speak with things like Draconians, Lizard Men, or to overhear conversations between two dragons. It is useful to have someone in the party that can do that.
It just seems like an unecessary complication to me.
Plus, Onyx in Xak Tsaroth says to Raistlin (when she has him pinned under claw) not to cast "any magic, because I know the language". By introducing a new language, you are forcing them to spend a language slot to not only cast magic, but also to speak with things like Draconians, Lizard Men, or to overhear conversations between two dragons. It is useful to have someone in the party that can do that.
It just seems like an unecessary complication to me.
Originally posted by ferratus
Plus, Onyx in Xak Tsaroth says to Raistlin (when she has him pinned under claw) not to cast "any magic, because I know the language". By introducing a new language, you are forcing them to spend a language slot to not only cast magic, but also to speak with things like Draconians, Lizard Men, or to overhear conversations between two dragons. It is useful to have someone in the party that can do that.
Magius is the name of the language of magic from previous sources, and it wasn't necessarily something that you would have to spend Speak Language ranks on. It's the language wizards use to write their spellbooks in, cast spells with, etc.
Onyx "knows the language" because she's a spellcaster. It's certainly plausible that they're related, but I would think Magius was a creation of the Gods of Magic and not something they just borrowed from the dragons.
Cheers,
Cam
okay. lame ebonics joke.In any case, I wouldn't say dragons were the first practitioners. The Gods of Magic were the first ones. :-) So dragons were a close second.
In my mind the languange of magic, Magius, comes from the moon gods. I believe there's primal sorcery, which is more undisciplined. to catergorize sorcery into scrolls, to describe them in spell book is a way to "quantify" magic, or in essence, place lawful measures on magic. that's where the moon gods come in. So a language, magius, was give to the first WoHS to promote and share their knowledge.
Originally posted by Granakrs
I call the dragons' language, Dragon, or dragonspeak. Draconic is a PHB convention from book with a world setting aligned to Greyhawk. Also, i don't think it fits DL because one might get confused. Do draconians speak draconics?
Joking aside, where else would the draconian language come from? They were speaking it almost immediately after their creation. If they weren't speaking the tongue of dragons (for which they could have as a race memory) then they should have been speaking the language of their creators, Nerekan.
I've always thought of it as the language of dragons and draconians and lizard creatures and such was Draconic. After all, Bakali and dragons were allies in the past.
You already have my objections to magic in terms of game mechanics, so this is my final one. Magius is a really, really, dumb name for the language of magic, since we already have an iconic wizard by that name. Frankly, if this little tidbit of canon is so vitally important (FR simply opted to forget that the language of magic was Netherese) simply say it was "the language of Magius". The language Magius spoke of course, was Draconic.
They just didn't call it that during the Age of Might or Darkness because Dragons were just fairy tales told to children.The only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that if you force characters to spend skill points or a language slot to use magic, you are penalizing your spellcasting classes. By turning the language of magic into Draconic, 3e made "the language of magic" both flavourful and useful for roleplaying with. To be consistent learning a language of magic should be as taxing as learning any other language. However, you are being ripped off if you need to take the slot simply so you can spout of gibberish when you are casting spells during the game. You follow me?
Besides... Shirak... Sivak.... c'mon!
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
...why don't you just simply give anyone with the wizard clas Magius for free? That's what I did.
That's more or less what I was assuming, too.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by ferratus
The only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that if you force characters to spend skill points or a language slot to use magic, you are penalizing your spellcasting classes. By turning the language of magic into Draconic, 3e made "the language of magic" both flavourful and useful for roleplaying with.
I don't mean to nitpick, Ferratus, but Draconic isn't the language of magic. It's definitely a magical language, but (to me) it sounds like you mean 3E wizards speak Draconic to cast spells. A human wizard can cast spells if he only knows Common.
If the DLCS has Magius as the language of wizardly magic, then it's safe to say that wizards & some others will get that language for free.
Originally posted by Eidolon
I don't mean to nitpick, Ferratus, but Draconic isn't the language of magic. It's definitely a magical language, but (to me) it sounds like you mean 3E wizards speak Draconic to cast spells. A human wizard can cast spells if he only knows Common.
Agreed. The same can be said for sorcerers. Having dragon blood is one explanation for the ability to cast arcane magic spontaneously. Then again, it could be irda blood. Or, it could just be that DL sorcerers draw upon the power of Chaos, or the elemental and creative energies of the world.
Originally posted by Eidolon
I don't mean to nitpick, Ferratus, but Draconic isn't the language of magic. It's definitely a magical language, but (to me) it sounds like you mean 3E wizards speak Draconic to cast spells. A human wizard can cast spells if he only knows Common.
Wizards gain Draconic as a bonus language and is the language they cast spells and write scrolls in. It specifically says so in the PHB. Hence my objection that you are penalizing your mages by reducing the effectiveness of that bonus language. If you have a mage in the party in any other campaign world, you can negotiate and parley or plead for your life with sadistic kobolds. You can trade with lizard men. You can overhear the plots of dragons. Magius on the other hand, would only be useful for roleplaying allowing you to speak gibberish at the gaming table. That's why they made the bonus language of magic that wizards get Draconic rather than some new made-up language when designing the 3e PHB.
I don't understand why everyone is so desperate to defend "Magius" as the language. It's a dumb name. No one disagrees that is a dumb name. It is already the name of one of history's most powerful mages, who is not a founder of the conclave. Why is this so sacred when you have a penalty to the class mechanics that would otherwise not be there, and "Draconic" fits the campaign setting so perfectly?
Do humans speak Humanese?
gah. this goes back to my rant as to why i hate common tongue.
If you want to call it draconic, fine. As far as i'm concerned, magius and draconic serve teh same purpose, but magius isnt a racist name. Its all about the flavor here.
Originally posted by ferratus
I don't understand why everyone is so desperate to defend "Magius" as the language. It's a dumb name. No one disagrees that is a dumb name. It is already the name of one of history's most powerful mages, who is not a founder of the conclave. Why is this so sacred when you have a penalty to the class mechanics that would otherwise not be there, and "Draconic" fits the campaign setting so perfectly?
I disagree. Magius is not a dumb name. :P
While Magius may not be a founder of the Conclave, he was certainly one of the greatest heroes of the WoHS. How better to remember his triumphs in magic and his sacrifice by naming the language of magic after him?
Yes, draconic fits DL fairly well. However, you can't just throw out parts of established DL canon just because you think it is dumb (save in your own games, of course). Now, you can redefine Magius to be the same language as draconic, just with a different name.
Age of Dreams, early: High Ogre = Common
Age of Dreams, late: Silvanesti Elvish=Common
Age of Light: Ergothian = Common
Age of Might: Istarian Church Tongue = Common
Age of Darkness/Mortals: Abanisanian=Common
Basically, Latin was the "Common" tongue in Europe and the Roman Empire, just as Greek was the Common tongue in the Mediterranian in the Hellenic world.
Abanasanian would the common tongue for the same reason English is, due to trade and colonialism. As far as I can see from the old Totl map, Abanasania has a bunch of city states who sail the Newsea. Being a pidgin of Solamnic, Elvish, Kharolian, and Ergothian it basically became a natural "common tongue".
As for racial tongues it has never bothered me, particularly in Dragonlance. Humans have the largest population and are spread over a much larger area. Thus, their language mutated. Minotaurs on the other hand, live relatively close together in Mithas and Kothas. Blode and Kern as well. Hobgoblins and Goblins only really control Throt. Dragons only have their own little lairs, or the dragon isles. The last don't really engage in much of anything that makes a mutating language really all that feasible (such as extensive socializing and trade), especially given their 1,000 year lifespans. But I myself would prefer if languages were handled nationally, rather than racially myself. There is no reason why Seeker goblin guards wouldn't speak Abanasanian.
Now, if I am correct looking at the Minotaur writeup we will get our wish. The minotaur language I beleive is now known as "Kothian". There has always been Silvanesti, Kagonesti, and Qualinesti elvish languages.
But Draconic still works as a racial language due to the points I raised above. As such, it makes sense even more as language of Magic on Ansalon since that organization is as unchanging as the dragons themselves are.
And "Magius" is still a dumb name. If the arguments about the unecessary penalty and uselessness of a seperate mage tongue don't sway anyone, then at least call it "Arcanspech" or Incantish" or something. I mean, why not call the High Church tongue of Istar "Belindas" or call Solamnic "Huma". It amounts to the same thing.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Yes, draconic fits DL fairly well. However, you can't just throw out parts of established DL canon just because you think it is dumb (save in your own games, of course).
Sure you can. Dumb ideas are made to be disposed of, especially when they penalize players. That's why Gnomes on other worlds now have Bards as their favoured class. That's why Kender can take more classes than just "handler". Sacred cows make for tasty steaks.
That's basically my attitude towards the DLCS. I'm not going to be concerned if they retcon a lot of things as long as the campaign setting they build on the ashes is strong, coherent and cohesive.
I see the DLCS as the "Ultimate Spider-man" series run. You take the coolest stories and villains and ideas from the jumbled and confused continuity, clean it up, streamline and modernize it, and forget about what is stupid.
Sometimes you don't have forget about them, but merely tweak them. Take "Ace the Bat Dog" from the Batman mythos. "Batman Beyond" brought him back, but rather than putting him in a dumbass cape and cowl, they just made Ace a huge black great Dane that rips people apart on command. Much, much better, I think we can all agree.
Originally posted by ferratus
Sure you can. Dumb ideas are made to be disposed of, especially when they penalize players. That's why Gnomes on other worlds now have Bards as their favoured class. That's why Kender can take more classes than just "handler". Sacred cows make for tasty steaks.
Terry, when you design for a world, you cannot throw out continuity, whether it is good or bad. Like the 5th age or not, it happened. Like Magius or not, it is established.
Use the War of Souls as an example. Sure, Weis and Hickman could have just said that the 5th age was an alternate reality, or just a dream, or whatever. That would have cheapened the 5th age, ruined continuity, etc. etc.
Only a poor designer would ignore this basic tenet of game world design. When you start messing around with continuity, then suddenly your fan base will start losing respect for you. When that happens, then you start losing sales. Plus, you hazard the chance of changing the world so much that it becomes unrecognizable.
Magius is the established language of magic on Krynn. Just because you think it is dumb, that does not mean that it will be changed.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Terry, when you design for a world, you cannot throw out continuity, whether it is good or bad. Like the 5th age or not, it happened. Like Magius or not, it is established.
Netherese was established as the Language of Magic on Faerun. Kender can't be spellcasters was established as continuity on Krynn.
Both have changed, and both for the better.
Continuity is not about accepting everything and being unable to change obvious mistakes and errors. It is about making a cohesive and enjoyable world view that suits the tastes and preferences of the majority of the people who consume it.
Yes, continuity must be followed whenever it is possible to do so. However, continuity should be tweaked, redefined, trimmed, and cleaned on a regular basis, especially if a series runs for decades, as Dragonlance has, as the Marvel or D.C. universes have, etc.
My objections to "Magius" still stand. It does penalize wizards. It is a confusing and redundant proper noun to attach to the language. It can be easily tweaked by calling Draconic "the language of Magius" by the wizards during the era when Dragons were considered a fairy tale by most, including most wizards. Canon is preserved, and the integrity of the game mechanics is maintained. It is a minor ability, all things considered, but it extremely important when a bunch grinning kobolds have your character tied up and hanging upside-down above a spiked pit.
Speaking "Rulak esta husta killok da" (please don't kill me great one) at the gaming table doesn't do much good if that kobold doesn't understand you.
Originally posted by ferratus
Sure you can. Dumb ideas are made to be disposed of, especially when they penalize players. That's why Gnomes on other worlds now have Bards as their favoured class. That's why Kender can take more classes than just "handler". Sacred cows make for tasty steaks.
But who should host the barbecue? Who should say this is dumb and this is good? The current designers? The current license holders? The current copyright holders? The fans? What fans? You? Me? If SP would make the desolation twice the size it is now wouldn't you be mad?
I do agree with you when you said ppl should look at the upcoming DLCS and just realize this is the base to build a campaign on and bury the war hatchet for once. Use the DLCS and change whatever they don't like for their home games.
P.S. For the record, I also disagree that Magius is a dumb name.
Oh and its 1 friggin skill point. Stop being a powergamer. Dragonlance is about the roleplaying not the rollplaying.
Clerics can choose Infernal, Celestial, etc the same way. Druids can choose Sylvan. Sorcerers, ironically enough, don't get any of these and have to stick to the usual list.
In Dragonlance, one assumes this applies to Magius for wizards. In fact, perhaps they can have both - Draconic and Magius. Or maybe, as you say, Magius is just a dialect of Draconic. More likely, however, it's the spoken language used in spells from the Orders of High Sorcery, the written language of scrolls and spellbooks, and not something that permits a casual conversation.
Draconic wasn't spoken by anybody for hundreds and hundreds of years, given the absence (and mythic status of) dragons. Food for thought, there. "What are you speaking?" "Draconic." "Sure you are."
As for the origin of Magius' name, it's becoming apparent to me that the word was used early on as a generic cool-sounding word for things associated with the series' wizard character, Raistlin. He has a Staff of Magius (who probably didn't have any real history until they stopped to make it up later), and speaks Magius. The Staff of Magius gets its name from the Staff of the Magi, and Caramon announces early on in response to odd looks from people about his brother, "He is magi."
I'd suggest in this case that Magius himself took his own name from the language/term/role, not the other way around. Kind of an egocentric thing to do, but then Magius was something of a narcissistic egomanic with a few screws loose.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Richard Connery
But who should host the barbecue? Who should say this is dumb and this is good? The current designers? The current license holders? The current copyright holders? The fans? What fans? You? Me? If SP would make the desolation twice the size it is now wouldn't you be mad?
The current designers host the barbeque. The copyright holders make sure it is properly cooked. The fans pay their money and eat the food.
If the barbeque is good, the fans eat and they go away satisfied. Sure, you may have a few fussy people who didn't get exactly what they wanted, or prefer to wax nostolgic about how much better the barbeque was last year, but all in all if the majority are satisfied and are repeat customers, then it is a success.
But what everyone is basically telling me is that if you cook the burgers in a particular way that is distasteful to many people and causes explosive diarrhaea, then it should be made that way every year, because that's just the way it has always been made. No exceptions! Franky, with that attitude, most are going to check out the barbaque being hosted in Faerun. That is one of the reasons their fanbase is so much larger.
(and yes I do know how to stretch a metaphor)
As for me being a "rollplayer", consistent and balanced game mechanics are important for both rollplayers and roleplayers alike (both I find, have their merits at the gaming table). As for the "dumb name" argument, that is all about making for a more esthetically pleasing campaign setting. I think that technically falls under "roleplaying".
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Draconic wasn't spoken by anybody for hundreds and hundreds of years, given the absence (and mythic status of) dragons. Food for thought, there. "What are you speaking?" "Draconic." "Sure you are."
Right, that's what I said. I gave that as an example of how you can preserve canon by tweaking it.
Wizards are wandering around, speaking the language of magic known as "the tongue of dragons". After awhile, for hundreds of years, people start thinking that dragons are just fairy tales told to children. There is no such thing as dragons. So instead they look to a wizard in the past who crafted a lot of magical items, and left a lot of spellbooks behind that are written in his name, in the language that wizards use. So they start calling it "the language of Magius". There are some charming folk tales about him and Huma the so-called dragonslayer, but that's just superstition that built up around this powerful mage.
As for Magius naming himself after his role as a "Magi", how did Huma know him by that name instead of something like Chucky?
You are correct about needing a slot, I was turned around and confused for a moment. I orginally made that point at the beginning of the thread about needing an intelligence slot, so I just contradicted myself. Sorry 'bout that.
Druids need sylvan to talk to fairy creatures, and thus it is useful in encounters. Mages use Draconic for spellcasting, but it is also useful for encounters as well. For rules consistency, languages should be handled the same way. If you just give it away for free, now that becomes an advantage rather than a penalty, which is also a problem.
As for casual conversation, the way Raistlin first made the "Staff of Magius" light up in Soulforge certainly looks like it could support casual conversation to me. I beleive he said "For Lunitari's sake, light damn you!" in the tongue of magic.
Originally posted by ferratus
But what everyone is basically telling me is that if you cook the burgers in a particular way that is distasteful to many people and causes explosive diarrhaea, then it should be made that way every year, because that's just the way it has always been made. No exceptions! Franky, with that attitude, most are going to check out the barbaque being hosted in Faerun. That is one of the reasons their fanbase is so much larger.
(and yes I do know how to stretch a metaphor)
Heh, no kidding. But I think what's happening is that someone called the hospital saying they got diarrhoea after eating some beef so everybody else who attended the barbecue must suffer from it too.
As for me, I ate
;)
Dragonhelm's Hint of the Day: Gates BBQ. Simply the best.
The problem with this metaphor is that the name of something can't be served differently year after year. We don't change Raistlin's name to Ralph, after all.
"Hi, I'm Ralph Majere, and I'm going to defeat Takhisis and become a god."
"Weren't you known as Raistlin last edition?"
"Hrm, yes, well, someone didn't like my name. I'm Ralph now."
How does this work in-world? How does it work in novels? Dragonlance isn't just a gaming world, after all.
I mean, we don't call the alphabet by a different name just because we don't like it. English is still English, and French is still French.
This isn't about rules, which can be redefined. This is about a proper name which was defined from day one. This isn't about how you want your hamburger served, it is about the fact that the meat patty you hold before you is still called a hamburger.
And remember...
You put your big toe in, you take your big toe out, you put your big toe in, and you shake it all about.
You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself about. And THAT is what it's all about. :D
Mmmm....Gates......
Originally posted by Richard Connery
Heh, no kidding. But I think what's happening is that someone called the hospital saying they got diarrhoea after eating some beef so everybody else who attended the barbecue must suffer from it too.
I think its more of a case of one person preferring onions instead of relish, and annoyed because he has to scrape the relish off and add his own onions. ;)
It is a minor irritant, all things considered (since I'll be running the Dragonlance game) but I don't look forward to having this argument all over again when I have a Dragonlance DM. I don't want to spend an language slot on a language I can't use. I need those 2 skill points for my Spellcraft skill thank you very much.
Originally posted by ferratus
I need those 2 skill points for my Spellcraft skill thank you very much.
You won't be able to use that language slot for 2 ranks in Spellcraft, but I'm sure you already knew that. If you don't spend the language slot on Magius, you're going to have to spend it on some other language. Like Draconic. So you can talk to dragons, but can't read magical writing.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by ferratus
Well, if I had my way the "Common" tongue would be handled thusly:
Age of Dreams, early: High Ogre = Common
Age of Dreams, late: Silvanesti Elvish=Common
Age of Light: Ergothian = Common
Age of Might: Istarian Church Tongue = Common
Age of Darkness/Mortals: Abanisanian=Common
Actually...this was what I always assumed when reading the novels...until I actually started checking out AD&D material and reailzed there is a completely seperate language called "Common." I agree with you...it's quite absurd. "Common" should be the most "common" tongue of the time.
And as for the Magius language vs. Magius the man:
For some reason...I was thinking that the language of magic was Magus not Magius. But I could be mistaken. And if I am...one can always assume that Magius' namesake was just the name of the language.
Originally posted by ferratus
I don't want to spend an language slot on a language I can't use. I need those 2 skill points for my Spellcraft skill thank you very much.
Sorry, but I don't see how the "wizards are getting penalized" argument can hold -- it's based on the assumption that the DLCS lists Magius as a separate language that wizards have to take, as well as (if I understand you correctly) your belief that all wizards should speak Draconic to cast their spells.
Given the expertise of Sovereign Press, I would imagine the following scenario to be more likely: A wizard automatically gains the language Magius. A wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to her.
Nice & easy, and it doesn't "penalize" anyone.
The best solution to this might be to find a kind soul who already has the DLCS, and have them shed some light on the topic. Is Magius listed as a language? Is it referenced in the wizard class description?
What language would a written version of 'Read Magic' be in? (Assuming the Krynnish version of the spell would allow you to read Magius.)
Originally posted by Cam Banks
You won't be able to use that language slot for 2 ranks in Spellcraft, but I'm sure you already knew that. If you don't spend the language slot on Magius, you're going to have to spend it on some other language. Like Draconic. So you can talk to dragons, but can't read magical writing.
Yeah, but you're completely missing my point here Cam. If the only thing I can use Magius for is reading magical writing, then it isn't worth the language slot or the 2 skill points I would need to get it. You see, it is nothing more than a roleplaying gimmick. It doesn't affect what you can do in the game at all.
Now, if you give it for free, then that's another problem. If you give it to wizards, then they gain another special ability without penalty, namely to talk to other wizards without fear of discovery (after all, they are the ones with the tongues spell. As a utility spell, most sorcerers won't take it.) Plus you have the problem of where and when you give it. Not a huge ability, but it is an irritant when spellcasters are powerful enough already. Draconic (or perhaps Abyssal for Nuitari's magic or Celestial for Solinari's) is worth spending the skill points on, so you don't need to grant a special ability to mages.
Now, as for Magius, I did some research. It isn't mentioned in DLA or Totl... in fact the only place it is mentioned is on Raistlin's character sheet. I know we have never had a decent core book, and have to find our canon based on little snippets, but that's beyond ludicrous. We can remove the 18th level limit, make kender spellcasters, but if it's written on Raistlin's character sheet then it is sacred unchangeable canon?
Bah!As to whether Magius is a dumb name because you are using a proper noun for two different things... well this is the last thing I can do to convince you. Take the passage from "Brothers in Arms" in which has Raistlin trying to figure out how to make the staff light up. Replace "language of magic" and "arcane tongue" with the proper noun "Magius".
I beleive you'll have a line that goes something like this:
"Elvish," Raistlin sneered, "the scribe was a fool. Obviously the language Magius spoke was Magius".
This doesn't convince anyone? Anyone at all?
Now, if you give it for free, then that's another problem. If you give it to wizards, then they gain another special ability without penalty, namely to talk to other wizards without fear of discovery.
Wait but you can't use the language of magic for regular communication?
(unless you use it to cast a spell that does that)
Originally posted by jonesy
Wait but you can't use the language of magic for regular communication?
(unless you use it to cast a spell that does that)
Everything I've seen of "the language of magic" described in the novels has a grammar and vocabulary. If so, you can use it to communicate with.
Now, if we want to retcon that and make it simply a bunch of discordant syllables, then you wonder why you would even waste ink on it. Wizards use gibberish while chanting? Wow, that's a big shock.
So when do we give this language for free anyway? Do we give it to 1st level mages or to the WoHS?
Everything I've seen of "the language of magic" described in the novels has a grammar and vocabulary. If so, you can use it to communicate with.
That's not what I meant. What I mean is that in the novels the mages are always talking about how the spells can get mixed up if they utter them in the wrong way and how precisely every syllable has to be said. How could you possibly use it for regular communication when everytime you try to say something coherent frogs leap out your mouth and fireballs shoot from your fingers?
It doesn't say that this language is Draconic. It does say that some ancient arcane tomes are written in Draconic, and that many wizards learn it to study those works, but this is not the same as the language all wizards know and use in their spells.
I'm going to make the assumption here that Magius is the name for the language all wizards know and the alphabet in which it is written, set down by the Gods of Magic and used over and over again in scrolls, spellbooks and in glyphs and sigils. Due to the nature of this language, individual wizards won't always be able to read it, and it's not a language you can use to engage in conversations.
So, there it is. Yes, this is something of a roleplaying gimmick, but it hasn't changed anything at all, nor given wizards a new and special ability. It also means that wizards who learn Draconic are making good use of an option on the off chance they need to talk to kobolds and bakali.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by ferratus
Ah, okay. Then I was wrong, and I'll admit it. I still don't like the name Magius though. Can't we just forget that the arcane language has that name? Please?
You are welcome to cover your eyes or ears when the topic is discussed and shout "LALALALALALALA" as often as you like.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Tzudralkor
what about if the spellcasters dont ACTUALLY know what they are saying when casting their spells? unless they spend the skill points. a wizard would learn a string of seemingly meaningless sylables when he learns a new spell, but if he learns to speak Magius, then he could carry on a conversation and know what the incatations for his spells would be in his native language.
That isn't really a solution to anything, because you would just effectively switch the casters native language with the language of magic. And apart from the caster actually needing to know the exact incantations (which seemingly keeps getting pointed out every time a mage does something in the novels), you would now have difficulty speaking in your own language. The language of magic is just that, a language solely for magic.
On Krynn, Draconic isn't the language of magic. Its the language of dragons and lizardfolk. Its a setting specific change. Again, whats the problem here?
As for the Common tongue, as far as I can see Solamnic is the "common" tongue of Ansalon. At the end of the day, following the Cataclysm, there was little communication outside of Abanasinia so that wouldn't be the common language. However, Solamnia being a much bigger nation would have had contact with others.
But by having a base Common language, you don't have to worry about that, because everyone speaks a basic language that lets them communicate with one another.
I did try at the beginning of my current camapign to ditch Common, so that the characters would not always be able to speak with strangers they meet on the road, forcing them to learn local languages. It worked for a while but in the end they ended up without the ranks in skills because they were too busy learning languages to be able to communicate.
I changed that descision, gave them Common and let them take those points back and apply them to skills.
Otherwise, why else would there be that mercenary talk in autumn twilight?
Originally posted by talinthas
solamnic? nah. We have precedence in stories where people speak solamnic and the companions outside sturm can't understand. In 300 years, i'd figure that linguistics would have dispersed enough that there was no real common, but a lot of derivations of istaran, that were close enough to figure out without real trouble.
Otherwise, why else would there be that mercenary talk in autumn twilight?
There are several human languages beyond the common tongue. Solamnic, Ergot, and Istarian come to mind. I believe the various "barbarian" races (i.e. the plainsmen) would have their own tongue as well.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
There are several human languages beyond the common tongue. Solamnic, Ergot, and Istarian come to mind. I believe the various "barbarian" races (i.e. the plainsmen) would have their own tongue as well.
Goldmoon and Riverwind do speak to each other in their own language. They both knew common fluently however, probably due to close contact with Abanisania, which curiously, does not have a language named after it. That's why I've always assumed that Abanasanian was the common tongue.
Originally posted by ferratus
That's why I've always assumed that Abanasanian was the common tongue.
That could make sense. After all, Abanasinia is the great Crossroads of Ansalon. It seems like everyone on Ansalon is there, just left there, is on their way there, was born there, visited there in a past life, or at the very least, has heard about it.
Which is more than I can say for just about any other place (except maybe Palanthas...but they speak Solamnic).Anyway...what better place for a common tongue to crop up than Abanasinia? Aside from it being over used in the past in most novels and games...why not use that as proof that "all roads lead to Solace"?
:D