Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2003 15:36:11	Being a long time advocate of the true history of Krynn as told be the dwarves the apparent new definition of scion given the sample of DLCS has given me worry. Of course it is too early to tell, but will the DLCS present a revised history of Krynn that will set down the authoritative events or will the different racial tales remain?!?!?
#2 talinthas Jun 30, 2003 17:29:55	racial tales are just that- tales told by the races. Authoritative history won't change what dwarves say about their past, because, frankly, their legends ARE their history. This is just so that readers have a baseline to build off of.
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2003 17:41:55	Yeah, but there was always just enough evidence so that you never knew the whole story. Up until that sample, scions were golden skinned dwarves who were transformed by the greygem, but the sample gives a new definition. This would contradict dwarven history and the appearance of scions in novels and other gaming products. Up until now the history of Krynn was always presented as, this is the history according to Astinus or the history of the Elves, or the history by the Irda. The true history was never presented because it was always biased by one race or another. Dwarven histories biggest bonus is that is was written by a scion who was there to wittness it.
#4 talinthas Jun 30, 2003 19:03:51	not necessarily. The only scions we've _seen_ thusfar have been gnomes =)
#5 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2003 22:10:21	The Last Thane had a dwarf scion in it.
#6 talinthas Jun 30, 2003 22:26:26	... at the point of scion creation, the only demihuman race alive was the proto gnome. The scions are sufficiently magical that they can be dwarves or gnomes or cattle or whatever.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2003 1:14:52	A scion's true form is that of a golden skinned dwarf. If a scion reveals that form to any person that person will always see the scion in his true form regardless of what form the scion takes. I am not familiar with any references that says scions are gnomes. The tale of scions comes from the dwarven histories which state they were proto-dwarves "the smiths" that were transformed by the greygem.
#8 talinthas Jul 01, 2003 1:36:36	the smiths. who were they, again? Oh yes, humans that reorx took to his forge. Humans that shrunk down into technologically minded folks, who all took on the appelation smith. These folks are the precursor to what we now know of as Gnomoi. The true gnomes. Now, legends say that a tribe of humans grew proud and were cursed by reorx. They assumed the form of these smiths, but a lesser form, and were known as Minoi. To redeem these cursed children, Reorx gave the knowledge of the machine of perpetuity to the lowest of these, one Milgas Kadwar. He freed the Greygem and released it to the world. A few gnomoi tried to stop this. They were charged by magical energies and became what were known as scions. They became golden skinned, and infused with the energies of Chaos. However, these were not the only scions. For, as we know, the greygem changed many people and traveled for many years. Long after the transformation into dwarf and kender, the gem still wandered. Legend has it that a poor dwarven fisherman by the name of Kalin Fishtaker tried to stop the gem. He also became infused with the gem, essentially gaining the powers of the scions. Other members of other races were granted these powers chaotically as well, particularly the irda ogre. These are all proto sorcerors and mystics, and essentially scions. However, those that truly bore the scion name were gnomes. However, when the transformations occured, they were left in charge of tribes of dwarves. The ogres rose up and enslaved these dwarves, and the scions rose to fight back. These scions loaded barges with dwarves, and sailed the rough courraine ocean from taladas to north eastern ansalon. The trip was dangerous, and only thirteen barges survived. The dwarves, enraged by the senseless deaths, rose against the scions and destroyed them until only one scion remained alive per barge that survived. these remainder were emasculated and otherwise defaced, and told never to return again, on the threat of death. These thirteen survivors all have mastered the art of hiding, and have golden skin and eyes, and other distinct features. They've been whittled down over the millenia, but their gnomish heritage remains. Dwarven legends were written by a scion, tis true, but again, in the context of his audience, they were mentioned as dwarves, for no self respecting dwarf would admit to being the throwback descendant of a gnome.
#9 jonesy Jul 01, 2003 1:37:35	I faintly remember a third version stating that the smiths were originally humans favored by Reorx who transformed them. Oh Talinthas posted just before I did.
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2003 10:43:30	I see what you are saying, but I have never seen that particular version of events in print.
#11 talinthas Jul 01, 2003 12:43:26	Sure you have, since all i did was combine a bunch of books. Look at the Time of the Dragon box, the Tales of the Lance box, the Dwarven Kingdoms of Krynn box, the Dwarven Nations Trilogy, the Dawning of a New Age trilogy, the Fifth age box set, the Last Thane, and all the various short stories dealing with the grey gem. Its all there =)
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2003 14:48:37	Talinthas, DKK says the smiths were the ancestors of the dwarves and presents Chisel Loremaster as a scion. TotL also says the smiths and scions are dwarvenfolk quote: Wild magic was released into the world into the hands of some reborn Smiths. They became the dwarven mages called Scions. The problem is of course the smiths which some sources say were the ancestors of gnomes like DLA (although it doesn't introduce that exact term) while others say they were the ancestors of the dwarves.
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2003 15:54:14	The way I see it, up until now scions came from dwarven history and filtered down into the history of the other races in various versions. The original explanation of who the scions are comes from TotL, DKK and the Dwarven Nations trilogy. They are "smiths" who are transformed by the greygem and provide the link to High Socerery. This of course contridicts the history of the other races and the WoHS. Which it is meant to since the origins of the world are lost to all the races. Regardless, up until the sample from DLCS a scion was a smith/dwarf/gnome/human who was transformed by the greygem as it was let loose upon the world. The sample we have says, "select mortals learned to tap into this source of power...these wild mages and mystics were known as scions."
#14 ferratus Jul 02, 2003 13:40:39	My advice would be to not worry about contradictions, and accept the current DLCS book as being the "canon" of the world. There have been so many contradictions and oversights and just plain wonkiness in Krynn. This was due to the fact that we have never, ever, had a decent core sourcebook. Seeing the table contents on this message board gives me hope that we will. (How long is that geography chapter anyway? ;) ) The way I see it, Scion is too cool a name to be locked up and used only by the dwarves. We also needed for the Age of Dreams a root for these wild sorcerers and mystics that the 5th Age material put there. The source that the 5th Age used as a justification for this old magic existing was the dwarven scions. So it only makes sense that the "old magic" practiced by the "scions" would be broadened out to include other races.