Can anyone recommend any Dark Sun supplements that really add to the game? City-State of Tyr? Dune Trader? The monstrous compendiums? Is getting the revised setting worth it? Something else? Flavor, plot hooks, setting information, and so on are more important than game statistics because I'm planning on using the 3e doc anyway once it comes out, and I'll probably buy supplements as opposed to adventures.
Thanks!
Arcane Shadows
Asticlian Gambit
Beyond the Prism Pentad
Black Flames
Black Spine
Campaign Setting
City by the Silt Sea
City-State of Tyr
Complete Gladiator's Handbook
Dark Sun Revised
Defilers and Preservers
Dragon Kings
Dragon's Crown
Dune Trader
Earth, Air, Firre and Water
Elves of Athas
Forest Maker
Freedom
Ivory Triangle
Marauders of Nibenay
Merchant House of Amketch
Mind Lords of the Last Sea
Monstrous Comp.
Monstrous Comp. 2
Psionic Artifacts of Athas
Road to Urik
Slave Tribes
The Will & the Way
Thri-Kreen of Athas
Valley of Dust and Fire
Veiled Alliance
Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs
First off, though, avoid Mind Lords of the Last Sea, unless you're a complete-ist collector. Windriders of the Jagged Cliff might be as questionable. Expect some inconsistencies in Dune Trader (spellcasting bards, for instance).
That's all I really remember.
Obviously, I'm planning on buying them all when I get a chance.
Just be sure to buy more than $20 worth from svgames, and then use the "dm20" promotional code to get a 20% discount. (Thus, from $4.95 list price, down to $4.74 sell price, to $3.792 discount price.)I'm currently spending this month downloading the Alternity stuff I want (minus the three books they don't have yet, and any others I don't remember but they don't have).
first you have the adventure modules :
Freedom, Road to Urik, Arcane Shadows, Asticlian Gambit, Dragon's Crown, Black Flames, Merchant House of Amtketch, Marauders of Nibenay, Black Spine, Forest Maker.
I 've not played them yet, but some of them detail great evenement in the storyline of Athas.
Then you have the background supplements
_ Dune Trader detail the new Trader class, but you have a description of all major Merchant Houses that i find interesting.
_ Elves of Athas detail the society, psychology ant culture of Elves, and dexcribe a few elven tribes.
_ Thri-Kreen of Athas is very interesting for me, since it was hard to figure how thri-kreens live and think before this book. And you've got a description of the Kreen Empire, a possible threat in the future of Athas...
If you want descriptions of city states and other places, these books are interesting:
_ Ivory TRiangle, for the city-states of Gulg and Nibenay
_ City-state of Tyr
_ Veiled alliance (you've got a short description of each city-state)
Valley of Dust and Fire describes the city-state of Borys. I find it difficult to use because PC must be high level (i think)
IN The will and the Way , you'll find a description of the Order, the organization of very powerful psionicists... check also Dragon's Crown adventure...
Dargon Kings detail the Dragon/Avangion metamorphosis, and metamorphosis for clerics and druids too.
Defilers and Preservers is very interesting if you want to understand magic in Athas. It re-explains the Dragon/Avangion metamorphosis too.
Slaves tribes describe a few tribes. Not very interesting i think
Earth, air, Fire and Water details the clerics. You will find descriptions of Para elemental clerics too (Sun, Magma, Silt and Rain), but they're not intended for PCs.
City by the SIlt Sea describes the lost City state of Dregoth the undead Dargon King. Interesting because Dregoth will play a major role in the future (well he could if you decide it)
Beyond the Prism Pentad details the evenemnt of the Books of Troy Denning. Not very useful.
I hope it will help (sorry for my english, i'm french...)
Veiled Alliance is a must. Describes all the city-states, important NPCs and gives some adventure hooks.
Citystate of Tyr and the Ivory triangle gives pretty good information on Gulg, Nibenay and Tyr as well as the whole ivory plains. Including trade forts and Salt View.
Dune Trader and the Elf book gives a lot of useful info on the region as well.
The Will and the Way is probably the most used book in my campaign, but if you'll be playing in 3e, it's useless. And it got really good psionic powers in it, so it kinda unbalances the game as well.
When it comes to the adventures.. most are so-so mostly.. Arcane Shadows gives some interesting info on Urik and the Asticlean Gambit got some neat tidbits on Gulg.. but you pretty much manage without them untill you've got enough money to get everything.
Black Spine and Dragon's Crown are actually very good adventures, and well worth the money, but they are from high level groups, so you can hold off buying them for awhile.
I have all the DS material, and so I hope that I can add some insight as to what is useful and what is not. Anything that I don't talk about, please feel free to ask me, and I'll let you know what I think about it. Keep in mind, these are only my opinions and nothing more.
The Prisim Pentad novels are the only books really worth going out of your way to read. There are some "silly" things that happen in the books, but overall those books best describe the dark and gritty world of Athas the best.
Outside of the campaign boxed sets, I can only really say that the Ivory Triangle is "important" to have. The other boxed sets aren't bad, their use is just questionable to the average campaign.
Forest Maker is TERRIBLE. DO NOT buy that pile unless you want to collect it all. The adventures that really are worth their weight in water are the Dragon's Crown and Black Spine. The rest aren't terrible, but their value is so-so.
The books that are really worth getting are: Preserver's and Defilers, Earth Air Fire and Water, The Will and the Way (for 2nd edition psionics), and the City State of Tyr.
As I said, this is an abbriviated post, but it basically says the same things I wrote earlier. Let me know if you have any questions about specific books.
As I said to someone else: after reading Denning's books I understood what Athas was all about; after reading Abbey's books I felt like I'd been there.
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The whole bit about the Druid / hippie community just didn't jive very well with my vision of Athas.
Also the ending of RaFoaSK was rather silly and contrived. I did like the insight into how Hamanu would think and react. I am able to use that, but the rest just seemed too contrived....
Originally posted by Quarion
The only problem that I had with Lynn Abby's books was that there were some inconsistencies in how the world worked.
The thing with Lynn Abbey's novels is that at that time, the TSR Novels department wasn't on speaking terms with the TSR Games department. Lynn got absolutely NO guidance from the Games department on what fits the setting and what doesn't.
Don't blame poor Lynn about the inconsistencies. She did the best with what little info she was given.
- Campaign Setting (obviously)
- City-State of Tyr (If you base you campaign there, gives a heck of a lot of campaign stuff and background. Really helps to make an urban city-state game)
- Dark Sun Revised (If you haven't read the novels, and want to see what happens, and if you want an update on the new stuff going on on athas and a few new places)
- Defilers and Preservers (Neat stuff on magic, new sources of magic and lots of character kits for mages, which can transfer as Prestige Classes in DS3e, and a bunch of spells)
- Dune Trader (If you are into the mercantile aspect of Dark Sun, gives good info and trade routes and supply points for different material. Can make great and different campaigns (I did one and it rocked, using player decisions, random encounters and lots of roleplay as only criterias)
- Earth, Air, Firre and Water (This one is a must. Introduces paraelemental clerics, how divine magic works, bunch of powers for clerics as they gain levels, bunch of spells)
- Monstrous Compendiums (Combat is one of the 2 main tings of D&D (the other being roleplaying, in that order for D&D) You can never have enough monsters. Note however that athas.org will surely release conversions of all these monsters, so...)
- Thri-Kreen of Athas (If you have Thri-kreen PCs (or NPCs), this is definately a must. Gives A LOT of info on their abilities and affinities, roleplay-wise and mechanics-wise)
- Veiled Alliance (Does have a lot of campaign material and a surprisingly extensive description of the city states for a book dwelling on the veiled alliance. Lot of hooks for adventures centered around magic and preservers/fight against evil)
DON'Ts
- Beyond the Prism Pentad (Pretty useless if you have the 2ed of Dark Sun or/and if you read to Prism Pentad) Doesn't give you much to work with anyways.)
- Dragon Kings (unless you play epic-level campaigns, no real need for this, as it works with advanced beings and Battlesystem units)
- Mind Lords of the Last Sea (interesting, but almost useless unless you want to run a very different campaign, having players go on a... special trip ;))
- Psionic Artifacts of Athas (Almost to weird to use with life-shaped items. Interesting reading, but rarely used, unless you are in a habit of powergaming.)
- Slave Tribes (not particularily helpful. No real campaign ideas.)
- The Will & the Way (not if you use 3e, and anyways Dark Sun 2e revises psionics altogether)
- Valley of Dust and Fire (Interesting reading, but hardly usable for less than epic level campaigns, and obsolete in the late Age of Heroes)
- Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs (Too isolated to be of any real use)
Here you go.
-Where would you rather base a low to mid level Athasian campaign, the City-State of Tyr or the Ivory Triangle? (I'm currently leaning towards buying the Triangle, if only because it seems to cover a lot more material.)
-Do you recommend starting a campaign after the new events detailed in the revised campaign setting, or is it just as well to begin before them? I own the non-revised setting and am trying to decide whether buying the revised version is worth it for a 3e campaign. Do said events affect any of the other supplements in a major way (looks like they affect Tyr quite a bit)?
Besides those, I'll be mulling over Veiled Alliance, Preservers and Defilers, Earth/Air/etc, and Dune Trader. Hrm...
Thanks again for the responses!
Originally posted by Ropp'cht'cht
Thanks very much for the replies, you're all quite helpful. I have a few follow up questions:
-Where would you rather base a low to mid level Athasian campaign, the City-State of Tyr or the Ivory Triangle? (I'm currently leaning towards buying the Triangle, if only because it seems to cover a lot more material.)
I've always wanted to do one in the Ivory Triangle area, it does have alot more info and is more spread out, plus I just prefer the Nibenay and Gulg atmosphere more than Tyr's.
-Do you recommend starting a campaign after the new events detailed in the revised campaign setting, or is it just as well to begin before them? I own the non-revised setting and am trying to decide whether buying the revised version is worth it for a 3e campaign. Do said events affect any of the other supplements in a major way (looks like they affect Tyr quite a bit)?
I usually begin a campaign a few years before the events of the first PP and go from there.
I've recently decided to run from the same time and let the PCs change the world and not neccessarily what happened in the PP.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Some of your don'ts make no sense whatsoever, but to each his own I guess.
Why?
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
DON'Ts
- Mind Lords of the Last Sea (interesting, but almost useless unless you want to run a very different campaign, having players go on a... special trip ;))
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's completely useless. Some of the flavor elements need to be tweaked a little like the surfing druids and such, but other than that I liked it, I especially liked it for being different.
It's closed off from the rest of the world, it's not suppose to be the same.
- Psionic Artifacts of Athas (Almost to weird to use with life-shaped items. Interesting reading, but rarely used, unless you are in a habit of powergaming.)
Not sure how life-shaped items equate to powergaming. There are some artifacts in there, but that's not neccessarily power gaming if given out at the appropriate levels. But if you never plan to run a high level campaign or even epic campaign then I will agree that there is no point getting this book other than for flavor and history purposes.
- Slave Tribes (not particularily helpful. No real campaign ideas.)
Don't think you read this accessory then, this was one of the better ones out of the bunch, I got tons of ideas for it back in the day.
- Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs (Too isolated to be of any real use)
I was able to have fun with it, ah well I guess.
Then, here is my choice and an answer to your question of campaing.
1- Veiled alliance : Excellent city descriptions. And lot of useful information regarding cities of the tablelands.
2- Ivory Triangle : Detail (IMO) one of the most interesting place to start as PC. See below for more. The box contain maps, goods charts, city charts and more. Excellent choice.
3- Dune Traders : Detail something you NEED to add to your campaing. Traders more than flavour to your campaing, it add a constant motion. Everything you PCs will do will eventually touch a Merchant Houses. They usually own most of the caravans running from town to town as well.
4- Slave Tribes : Of course, no adventure is included, BUT you have tons of adventure plots you can run just with these. You can easely start campaing with these excellent tribes descriptions.
Here is the BELOW :D I wouldnt start your campaing in Tyr. They will obviously and eventually get there. Right now, I started a campaing where the PCs start as peoples of different slaves tribes which got caught by slavers and sold at Fort Inix. Starting them as slaves will give them the athas flavour and even more if they dont know anything about the tableland as they never adventured. You will be able to introduce almost everything as new and unknown to them.
So what's important are Veiled alliance (for cities info), Ivory triangle (for Nibenay or guld information and campaing starting), Dune traders (for information on trading and Merchant Houses) and slave tribes (to have ideas on how and where to start PCs without too much knowledge of the tablelands). Made them never been in a major town. It will be fun.
*grummore out*
Originally posted by Heretic Apostate
Don't blame poor Lynn about the inconsistencies. She did the best with what little info she was given.
I don't blame her. I don't think that the books are "bad", but they just aren't Athas to me. :D
Originally posted by Ropp'cht'cht
-Where would you rather base a low to mid level Athasian campaign, the City-State of Tyr or the Ivory Triangle? (I'm currently leaning towards buying the Triangle, if only because it seems to cover a lot more material.)
-Do you recommend starting a campaign after the new events detailed in the revised campaign setting, or is it just as well to begin before them? I own the non-revised setting and am trying to decide whether buying the revised version is worth it for a 3e campaign. Do said events affect any of the other supplements in a major way (looks like they affect Tyr quite a bit)?
To your first question: you'll find more information in general about Tyr in all of the DS books. So if you're going on campaign material I'd go for Tyr. However, if you want to be able to expose the characters to a wider array of locals, I'd go with the Ivory triangle.
The second question: If you want to play a game that is brutal and oppressive, definately set the campaign before the events in the PP. Events after the PP aren't as focused, and therefore will allow you the DM to make a little more up about the world as you see fit.