Seeing as how some lucky folks seem to have the DLCS book already I was wondering if they might spill the beans so to speak on a few of its contents.
I'd be primarily interested in seeing just how moon magic and the WoHS prestige class works. Also if anyone could post stats on the Staff of Magius it would be much appreciated.
yours Salthanas
The moons: page 94
You start the game by rolling a d20 then looking to see where the moons are according to what you rolled they have a pie chart (sort off) and what you roll tells you where the moons are.
Example a 20 means the game starts with a night of the eye.
You can then follow the chart day by day or just roll again at the start of each game.
Wziard of High Sorcery:
*They all use the same PrC chart
*They gain +1 existing class for spells each level
*They cast spells from their school at +1 level and get +1 to saves vs these spells.
*They must give up another spell school used by another high tower. It can't be on he already gave up, so you have 3 no no classes for spells.
*They get an item of power (magic item value 2000-4000) but he doesn't know what it does he has to figure it out. This would work well with the rules from Rokugan about awken magic abilities in katanas.
*They also all gets secrets at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th
Depending on what color is what you get to pick
Hope that helps
(_|_) <---- that's me mooning you.
Lol .. just teasing. As soon as I get mine I will be coming back on here to gloat. So is there some nice artwork inside the book?
I read on the EN World message boards that the Knights of the Thorn are cleric-knights and the Knights of the Rose are wizard-knights in the 3e DLCS.
Is that true?
Thanks in advanced
Originally posted by The Magian
Hi,
I read on the EN World message boards that the Knights of the Thorn are cleric-knights and the Knights of the Rose are wizard-knights in the 3e DLCS.
Is that true?
Thanks in advanced
No, the poster typed a few things incorrectly. Thorn Knights and Rose Knights still hold their traditional roles.
any evil (black), any good (white) or neutral (red)
Base Will save +4
Ability to cast and prepare 2nd level arcane spells
Specialization in a school:
abjur or divin (white)
Ill or trans (red)
Enchant or Necro (black)
Spellcraft 7 ranks
Feats: Spell focus (any) any 2 item creation or metamagic feats
Special: The test (There are some basic rles and ideas but no test)
Since I can't draw it would have to be really bad for me to say anything against it. So yes the artwork is nice. Nothing that jumps off the page and grabs me, but that doesn't mean it's bad but then again artwork has never been a major draw for me.
I wonder because, otherwise, Evokers -- the one school of magic specialization left out -- seem likely to be killed on sight!
(kinda sucks in a way, since I wanted an LN Ftr/Evoker/WoHS/Eldritch Knight, assuming the convential connection of evocation to the Red Robes was intact...)
EDIT: Don't mean to sound snarky, just wondering how the rules for WoHS cover Evocation...
What sort of benefits do spell secrets give and how many are there for each order to choose from?Alot more on the Order of High Sorcery, the Tests, and renegades will be in the Towers of High Sorcery sourcebook.
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
Just because you do not have the Wizards of High Sorcery (or the Solamnic Knight/Nerakan Knight) prestige class does not mean that you are not a part of their order. The prestige classes are just further specializations. You can be a non-spellcasting Knight of the Sword, although you will not have the Knight of the Sword prestige class.
Right. As I understand it, all that's required of you is that you pass the Test when your spellcasting ability reaches the point at which you're no longer just a dabbler. You can take the Test and continue as a base class wizard, but you won't gain any of the additional special abilities and class features of the other Wizards of High Sorcery.
You'd most likely still wear the robes of a certain color, of course. You need to abide by the Orders' restrictions or you'd risk being branded a renegade even if you did pass the Test earlier.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by talinthas
i'm assuming that there are tradeoffs between taking and not taking the PrC, right?
As there are with taking or not taking any PrC. It all depends on how you wish to tackle what you're playing.
If one wanted to, they could play most (if not all) of the roles in Dragonlance using base classes.
Originally posted by talinthas
i'm assuming that there are tradeoffs between taking and not taking the PrC, right?
With the prestige class, you get the Secrets, which truly boosts the strength of your magic above and beyond. However, you do have three restricted schools of magic.
Without the prestige class, you don't get the secrets (and the technicalities about the Item of Power, Order resources, and the like are up to DM's discretion), but you do get to be more of a generalist.
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
With the prestige class, you get the Secrets, which truly boosts the strength of your magic above and beyond. However, you do have three restricted schools of magic.
Without the prestige class, you don't get the secrets (and the technicalities about the Item of Power, Order resources, and the like are up to DM's discretion), but you do get to be more of a generalist.
Christopher
Or just two schools if you're a diviner
Well, besides that I am definitely going to be leery about taking the prestige class, but since I am a white robe at heart being a diviner without necromancy and illusion won't be too terrible.However, it isn't at first level, and the cost of the item (if it is indeed 2,000-4,000 stp) is very, very cheap as far as magical items go. A minor wand, a lengthy scroll, or a minor ring (such as water-walking) would pretty much cover it. Heck, you could even give it as magical treasure as part of "the test" adventure if you choose to roleplay it out.
As long as the secrets aren't horribly unbalanced with metamagic feats, it looks pretty good. More guidelines on the benefits and disadvantages of belonging to the WoHS will be handy when the "Magic sourcebook" comes out in January. A much needed chapter of that is specifically how and why renegades are hunted. Obviously, a "detect renegade" spell isn't feasible (or much fun) so I'm interested in seeing what the WoHS handles problems such as this.
I'm guessing these offenses will brand you a renegade:
Attaining Lichdom: When you have an organization, not clearing room for younger blood is bad for the health of an organization. People get frustrated with a lack of advancement. Plus, it probably means that Chemosh has his skeletal hand in there, and the moon gods wouldn't like the poaching.
Actively undermining the conclave: This would include things such as establishing rival schools of magic, teaching pupils outside of the conclave's juristiction, formenting mistrust of the conclave among the civilian population.
Attacking magic itself: Doing things like sucking magic dry out of other mages, trying to prevent the flow of magic to Krynn, burning down magical libraries to prevent others from learning the spell secrets, etc.
Serious Breech of Protocol: Killing mages on "neutral" zones such as the Towers of High Sorcery.
There are probably other offenses that wouldn't have you branded as a renegade, but might lead to a slap on the wrist or something, such as:
- Carrying a weapon other than a dagger or staff
- Refusing to take an apprentice, or ducking the duty as long as possible
- Destroying magical items or spellbooks of a different alignment
- Not treating fellow mages with the respect their rank and power accords them
Some things would be considered normal, such as:
- Killing other conclave members in battle when you are in rival camps
- Praying to dieties other than the gods of the moon
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
No, the poster typed a few things incorrectly. Thorn Knights and Rose Knights still hold their traditional roles.
Ah, I was surprised when I saw that. I was also kind of excited about this particular retcon, given that the 1e version of the Knight of the Rose is no longer feasible. See, we had something similar to the Unearthed Arcana Cavalier that was the "Knight of the Crown". We had something similar to the Paladin/Cleric with the "Knight of the Sword". The "Knight of the Rose" basically gained weapon proficiencies up the wazoo... but since fighters already have that in 3e, it sort of makes a straight translation kinda difficult. The change to a type of wizard would have been extreme (too extreme for me to have considered it) but if someone else would have taken the heat, it would have added an extremely fresh perspective on the Solamnic Knighthood.
I hope the "Knights of the Rose" aren't just another Paladin variant. We already have the Knights of the Sword for that. I'm very curious to see what they have gained though. Leadership abilities? Combat skills which are particularly handy when fighting alone as Knights Errant? Legal expertise? I'm very curious to see what they will look like.
I just hope they got rid of that "Rank is based on glorious deeds" thing that the 5A put in. That attitude essentially means two things:
1) You have to argue about how good you are everytime three knights come together to find out who is in charge. Otherwise, who would decide? High command? That's just promotion based on merit. That's what militaries always do, and what the Solamnic Knighthood has always done. There are/were Solamnic Crown Knights that had a higher rank than Rose Knights after all.
2) The knight who charges an ogre by himself gets command, while the smarter knight who takes along ten buddies to take on the ogre does not.
But then they wouldn't be secrets would they?
Do you really want them, don't you want to be surprised by anything when you finally get the book?
1.) I'm poor. Well, lower-middle class, actually, but I myself have no form of income. I'm too young for a summer or part-time job, and I don't have an allowance. The only time I get money is when my mom or grandma give me 5 or 10 dollars for food, on a band trip, and I get to keep what's left over. And, you can get really hungry after marching, and food is expensive, so it's usually only a buck or two.
2.) There really aren't many haobby shops around, and I can't drive to them anyway. I live in the country, and there's one in the nearby town of Salem, but I've enver seen D&D books in it. I haven't been in it too often, though, only a couple times, because I never go to Salem, anyway. My uncle, who's played earlier editions(and a part-time 3E player, but only a couple times), says that he used to buy D&D books there, but the closest I've seen is a puzzle portraying Lord Soth. There's a Sam Goody about 30 minutes away(driving), but the only time we go there is when we go to Walmart(it's right next to it), and we usually go to a different Walmart. There's a Barns & Noble about an hour away, a mall with a Walden Books that sometimes has RPG books in it sometimes(but they're hard to find, because they hide fantasy RPGs within the sci-fi section, sci-fi within fantasy, and ones that don't really fit, like d20 Modern, in the nonfiction. It's wierd) that's near there, and anothwer mall near there that has a Walden Books too, which sometimes has D&D, and a hobby shop, that doesn't really have that much d20 material. They have a self for d20, a shelf and a half for Palladium, and the other two shelves for lesser-known ones, like In Nomine and Lord of the Rings.
Sorry for the long-winded speech, but I'm trying to show that I am poor and unfortunate. I only have the core books from Christmas presents(and it took two years to get all 3), DotF and TaB by pitching in with friends, and the MM2 because my aunt and uncle paid me and my brother around $50 in books, because at the time, they didn't have small enough bills to pay us in cash, and that's what we'd spend it on, anyways. I might be able to get more books, because one of my uncles works at Barns & Noble, but he lives 2 or 3 hours away, so that might be problemetic.
How old are you, by the way? I am sure if you brainstorm enough you can find a way to come up with the money.
I wish I could just stop eating lunch at school to save money...but, unfortunately, I have free lunch. Well, wait, that's kinda good...but you know what I mean.
Please tell me that wizards/sorcs are indeed Allowed and capable of using more weapons than just a dagger and/or quarterstaff.
-Robert
Originally posted by Robert N.
Do me a favor.
Please tell me that wizards/sorcs are indeed Allowed and capable of using more weapons than just a dagger and/or quarterstaff.
-Robert
Wizards & Sorcerers, yes.
Wizards of High Sorcery? Nope
Not that they lose their skill, or that they cannot use such weapons, but such is greatly frowned upon except in dire emergencies.Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
Wizards & Sorcerers, yes.
Wizards of High Sorcery? Nope
And considering the benefits they gain, I don't think they're in any position to gripe about it!
Cheers,
Cam
In FR, gnomes are gunsmiths, though everyone else doesn't quite like guns.
In DL, do gnomes (or anyone else) have access to gunpowder/guns?
If so, if not, are they/can they be created by gnome tinkering type stuff?
evil thought...
Gnomish tinker/WoHS
-Robert
Originally posted by Robert N.
Hey,
In FR, gnomes are gunsmiths, though everyone else doesn't quite like guns.
In DL, do gnomes (or anyone else) have access to gunpowder/guns?
If so, if not, are they/can they be created by gnome tinkering type stuff?
evil thought...
Gnomish tinker/WoHS
-Robert
Ulin discovered a substance similar to gunpowder...and ended up blowing up the Academy of Sorcery to prevent Beryl and her minions from gaining access to the magic and artifacts stored there....
And the gnomes, I'm sure, have come up with quite a few explosive substances themselves ;)
Oh, and Slith's got his own alchemical brew that makes big bangs....
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
Ulin discovered a substance similar to gunpowder...and ended up blowing up the Academy of Sorcery to prevent Beryl and her minions from gaining access to the magic and artifacts stored there....
one of the lamest things ever, imo... Not only destroying the AoS, but doing it essentially off screen, in a short story. At least when weis and hickman wasted the mystics, it was major part of the story...
And yes, i've discussed this with both of them in person. I understand why, but i dont have to like it =)
btw chris, did you sign my DLCS? Cause if you did, then i can assume it shipped ;)
Originally posted by talinthas
And yes, i've discussed this with both of them in person. I understand why, but i dont have to like it =)
Great. Can you pass on what they said? What is the "why"?
I honestly don't remember what excuse they gave, aside from me accepting it at the time, and then kicking myself for not arguing =)
And as i see it, Palin is symbolic of the "dragonlance fan" who has become embittered by events on krynn. In the end, Palin realized that magic lead to the loss of his family. in the end, he choose to give up the magic, because his friends and family were more important.
Dalamar, however, is a completely difference symbol of the embittered dragonlance fan. :-) Cast out of the Tower of High sorcery, but he has his magic back.
Did I miss something somewhere? Why aren't they allowed into the Towers? Or am I misunderstanding something?
I don't know about any others.
The odd thing about all this is that the Tower of Wayreth was a sentient being during the Age of Mortals, and inhabited by sorcerers. It evaded Beryl constantly, but served as the base of operations for a number of Ansalon's arcane types. I don't know if, given the return of the Gods of Magic, the Tower will revert to being silent, or if the sorcerers will get kicked out. I'm assuming this is going to get the full treatment in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Dalamar's the only wizard who isn't allowed to set foot inside the Tower of Wayreth. The Gods of Magic forbade him. Other wizards, and sorcerers for that matter, are probably as able to do so as they had been throughout the Age of Mortals. I don't think there's any restriction on entering the Tower in Nightlund for Dalamar, assuming he can get through the hordes of undead.
The odd thing about all this is that the Tower of Wayreth was a sentient being during the Age of Mortals, and inhabited by sorcerers. It evaded Beryl constantly, but served as the base of operations for a number of Ansalon's arcane types. I don't know if, given the return of the Gods of Magic, the Tower will revert to being silent, or if the sorcerers will get kicked out. I'm assuming this is going to get the full treatment in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book.
Cheers,
Cam
Dalamar cannot return to the "Tower of High Sorcery he once occupied (Nightlund), by order of Nuitari, as a condition of his resurrection and return of his magic.
Wayreth...well, there are other problems.
Christopher
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Dalamar's the only wizard who isn't allowed to set foot inside the Tower of Wayreth. The Gods of Magic forbade him. Other wizards, and sorcerers for that matter, are probably as able to do so as they had been throughout the Age of Mortals. I don't think there's any restriction on entering the Tower in Nightlund for Dalamar, assuming he can get through the hordes of undead.
The odd thing about all this is that the Tower of Wayreth was a sentient being during the Age of Mortals, and inhabited by sorcerers. It evaded Beryl constantly, but served as the base of operations for a number of Ansalon's arcane types. I don't know if, given the return of the Gods of Magic, the Tower will revert to being silent, or if the sorcerers will get kicked out. I'm assuming this is going to get the full treatment in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book.
Cheers,
Cam
I believe that Dalamar was forbidden from entering the Tower of High Sorcery in Nightlund (formerly of Palanthas). That would make more sense, since he was the master (or so he thought) of that tower.
The Tower of Wayreth should still be open for him to use.
As for the sorcerers there, I imagine some of them will be the first "converts" to the ways of High Sorcery.
the wording of the mystic class leads me to believe that DL is going to look at mystics like wayward rebellious heretics, and that the clergy is the right way.
And now sorcs 'converting'...
Honestly, i hope that in future products the fifth age doesnt become the bad guy...
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I don't know if, given the return of the Gods of Magic, the Tower will revert to being silent, or if the sorcerers will get kicked out. I'm assuming this is going to get the full treatment in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book.
I don't know...it could get harry.
I was hoping this would all be addressed in The First Conclave...but who knows if that book will even be written now.
Originally posted by talinthas
see, i'm not sure i like that.
the wording of the mystic class leads me to believe that DL is going to look at mystics like wayward rebellious heretics, and that the clergy is the right way.
And now sorcs 'converting'...
Please don't take my words out of context, either. Basically, I see a struggle about ready to ensue between focused and ambient magic-users.
In the process, you will see many "converts", but it will be in both directions. I'm sure that there will be a fair number of mystics who become clerics (such as the ones at the Citadel of Light), and some sorcerers who become wizards.
At the same time, there will be those who balk at the gods, or try to follow the ways of the gods and find it isn't for them.
Personally, I didn't see the mystic as becoming a "wayward rebellious heretic". I saw the mystic as someone who took another path. Due to the conflict of magic, mystics will sometimes clash with clerics.
Honestly, i hope that in future products the fifth age doesnt become the bad guy...
I highly doubt that. Age of Mortals has tons of great info on the 5th age, and I think you'll see many elements that will appeal to you.
Originally posted by Stormprince
Dalamar cannot return to the "Tower of High Sorcery he once occupied (Nightlund), by order of Nuitari, as a condition of his resurrection and return of his magic.
Wayreth...well, there are other problems.
That's even more interesting.
Thanks for clearing that up (and Trampas too, who seems to have said the same thing but Chris beat him to the "Submit Reply" key).Cheers,
Cam
I have a feeling that the 'conversion' issues will be a big conflict in my extended campaign =)
Now i just have to figure out how to make it more of an adventure and less of a railroaded story...
Actually, thats my main problem so far. My game sucks because i keep getting stuck in a dungeon crawl rut. I need to figure out how to make a cool dragonlancy adventure with things like clergy and stuff.
what we need is a guide on how to run dragonlance for people who are unfamiliar.
or even better, someone to run a DL game for me so i can see how its done.
i continually run into the problem of trying to do too much, since i know DL in and out. My players have the barest knowledge of the setting, so frequently get lost. And we end up crawling again...
The open classes of 3.0 just blows some things away...
Mike
Originally posted by talinthas
what we need is a guide on how to run dragonlance for people who are unfamiliar.
I believe the DLCS has a section on how to run a DL campaign.
or even better, someone to run a DL game for me so i can see how its done.
If you're making it to GenCon, there are some demo games.
i continually run into the problem of trying to do too much, since i know DL in and out. My players have the barest knowledge of the setting, so frequently get lost. And we end up crawling again...
It is never easy.
My old DL games used to take place across the continent, rather than in dungeons (although there was the rare exception).
The problem I ran across was running Dragonlance without there being a war going on. Granted, Dark Lance was set up as the "next generation" WotL in my game, with a new generation of heroes fighting a new foe.
Nowadays, I don't want to do a war, as that's been done to death. I'd like to move on to other things. I think my main interest is in the conflict of magic, so I may go that way.
Good luck with the game, Tal.
Originally posted by qstor
Why kender wizards? *argh*
The open classes of 3.0 just blows some things away...
Well...technically...kender could always in the past be wizards...just not Wizards of High Sorcery, which made them Renegade Wizards (if a Kender Wizard ever existed). Which I assume is still true...I don't think the Order has gone mad in the last 45 years...although kender have proven themselves to be adept Sorcerers...so perhaps the WoHS will rethink their racisim. Perhaps not...
The setting should take precedence over the rules IMO.
Originally posted by SweetMeats
Yeah... Kender wizards... its the same argument I've been having for a while now.
The setting should take precedence over the rules IMO.
There are ways to adapt the rules to the setting, without having to change the rules.
Look at the Ogier from Wheel of Time for an example. They are unable to use the One Power.
Just a thought.