To continue:
Originally posted by Mach2.5
To simply say to someone "Your going to fail." Wow. Thats not just someone being an arse. Thats a complete and total mental nutjob who has serious issues that he or she needs to sit down and think long and hard about. Issues that most likely have nothing to do with gaming, or websites, or Greyhawk at all. Kid, you've got problems. Deal with them. And shut the heck up until you do. That's being more than ignorant, more than rude, and more than stupid.
Too bad you took me out of context on most, if not all of my post. So let me reclarify, without all the quoting.
First, if every single attempted project about GH is abysmally doomed to failure unless it is a fully integrated part of Canonfire, then explain to me and everyone else why there are so many other GH websites out there that are doin just fine. Aeolis(sp?) underwater website seems to not have gone 'belly-up' (pun intended). But, according to you, it should have or will within time. Hmmm, please check your logical view of realism as it is most certainly flawed. Oooohh, lets not forget the Irongate prject. While not as flashy as a PHP designed page (Nuke sucks, sorry, I think it nuke's a webpage), its still around, still being updated. Hmmm . . . logic flaw once again. That's just off the top and its too early for me to think without ample caffine. You get the picture. Yet, you said so yourself. They should have failed by now.
Hmm, not knowing what the hell I'm doing? And of course, since you know everything there is to know about me, that makes you the foremost athority on what I am capable of? No one in this world knows my limitatons, my accomplishments, and my failures like you do? If not, then perhaps your multiple psychological degrees have enabled you to gleen Fruedian insight into my nature and mindset in order to predict an outcome of my actions. Nope? Well, leave the guesswork at home then. I've been around the block in the gaming industry for a while myself kid. I've seen the same things you have (or mostly the same), so please, leave the 'I know it all because I've been there before' shtick.
Stop sticking up for Canonfire. Its not even under debate. Canonfire is fully capable, staffed by dire hards who have given their life's blood to make it come true. I don't even see the issue? I've more than once agreed with you and the rest of the canonfire supporters. This really isn't about canonfire and what it is or what it isn't, what is capable of and what is lacks at. Stop turning things around to make it sound like its a pissing contest over who can make a better wheel. Its not some kind of competition here, at least, it shouldn't be. If it were a matter of making money off something, then okay, I'd more than understand the competative issues, but its not. I've been wanting to do this for quite some time, someone else chalked up a post about it and for me, the timing fit (well, almost, I would have liked it to be next month, but hey, close counts). Personally, I'd rather keep the aspects of the Canonfire message boards for the new site. Message boards are very, very hard to start up and maintain. Canonfire's MBs are quite apt at handling the entire GH community and can more than serve their purpose in that regard.
I never said that CF doesn't cater to fans. I never said anything that was a kick in the teeth to the people running it. Quote or misquote all you want. I NEVER BASHED CANONFIRE AND I"M NOT BASHING IT NOW. Simple as that. Can't make it any more clear. Once again, this isn't an ego tripping pissing contest. Its not about 'I can do it better'. It defintely seems to be that way with you in specific though.
CF is prospering just fine. As it should. Hopefully it will continue to prosper on many levels over the coarse of time.
Now, for the ego influenced misquote.
Chatdemon, I'm sure you were incredibly upset at Techno's blatant bashing of Canonfire. It was wrong. It was also recanted in a mature fashion and redirected constructivly. Just as its not right to flame, its also not right for someone to ignore a sincere apology and dig the whole mess back up. I know what its like to have your hard work get ripped to shreds by someone. It hurts and gets you steamed to no end and rightly so. But take the more mature road here and be more objective
Hmmm, notice something at the top there. First word, eh? None of that was aimed at you ;) You seem to have misread other parts of it as well. The 'I know what its like to have your hard work, etc, etc.' was my attempt at showing a little empathy for Chatdemon, who at least posted with respect and a display of dignity. I felt it was only right to show some in return.
"They wanna do wha? But CF does all that... they're saying what about CF? Huh? Geez man, way to kick CF in the teeth, I'm gonna tell 'em where it's at..." But hey, read into it whatever you like, you seem to be doing a good job of it so far
Drats, I've gone and quoted again. Sorry, it won't happen again. The first part, "They wanna do wha?" Help the GH community in a different fashion. Nothing wrong with that, is there. "But CF does all that . . ." CF does a heck of alot more than that. Sorry, but my initial idea of a GH fansite wasn't a CF replica or clone. It wasn't a vision of 'everything CF is doing wrong will now be done right.' Hell, its not even about CF. "they're saying what about CF?" Techno flamed CF. A few others, myself included simple stated that it wasn't very 'new member friendly'. Where's the "They" that ****** everyone off? Now it seems that everyone who has even the slightest or remote disatisfaction (even if reletively minor) of CF has been lumped into a total group. Shame really. Especially since I don't have a whole ton of grips with CF. Doesn't seem like too many other people did either. "I'm gonna tell them where its at . . ." Hmmm . . . I'm still waiting for you to do just that. Put me in my place, please. You can attempt to do that by quoting me all you want and entirely ignoring the rest of my statements, but that surely won't get the job done.
Obviously not since there are numerous people who would put down CF and the efforts that went into building it. Maybe if people would actually make an effort to assist by proposing suggestions or offering to help or perhaps even contributing an article, instead of blowing CF off at the first opportunity and arrogantly insisting they can do better, CF WOULD be a better site.
Man, I gotta stop doing this. I really hate quoting. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Once again, there wasn't "numerous people putting it down." Nor where there numerous people "blowing CF off at the first opprotunity." One or two of the innitial posters had no idea what CF even was. Can't put down something you don't know about. Now, this may be hard for you to do, but stop and think about that. Some people who are fans of GH didn't know what CF was. . . . (I'd repeat it over and over if I were you, until it sunk in a bit). Now, ask yourself why that would be? Ask yourself, how can anyone into GH for any length of time not know about CF? Is it because there's something wrong with CF? Nope. Is it because there's something wrong with how CF is run? Nope. Is it because there's a tremendous lack of GH internet presence? BINGO! We have a winner.
Here's the analogy for you. I'll try and keep it simple (I've a simple mind after all, so it shouldn't be too hard for me to do ;)). Do you know what 'redirection marketing is'? The name says it all and its most true on the internet. Company A wants more people to visit its website, mostly in the hopes of people spending money there (granted this doesn't apply as much to game based webpages, but the analagy still holds true). Company A sells widgets (I own many widgets . . . must . . .buy more . . . widgets). Company B, which sells wadgets (kinda like widgets, but not the same, avoids competition), gets hired by Company A to act as a redirector for people visiting its webpage. Now, not only does Company A draw in people, but it was Company B sending them over as well. Toss is Companies C through Z and Company A's traffic has exploded.
How do wadgets apply to GH? Canonfire has been and most likely always will be the main GH presence on the internet (barring some unforseen circumstances like everyone involved in it having the hard drives struck by lightning at the same time just as the website gets wiped, but even then it would probably only be down for a day. You've proven your tenacity in that regard :bow
. In the above example, Canonfire is Company A, making the best widgets around. Any other websites devoted to GH become redirection websites, selling wadgets (displaying their own GH ideas and presence on the web). None of these secondary (and yes, I'm aware that the currently debated project will be secondary in nature to CF. I've no problem with that since once again, this isn't an ego tripping pissing contest as you seem to think it is). Personally, I had ever intention of submitting anything I write to both resources and would strongly encourage anyone else to do the same (personal preferences of course, but I'd still advise others to do the same).Okay, that's about enough from me for now. I'm getting tired of this whole CF vs Newsite debate. Its not about anyone vs anything else. It should be a nice happy lil community of people who love and support GH and support one another. Sad really. I had actually thought a little more highly of people I guess.
I get accused of not reading things through and yet... what were Theocrat's posts? Vapourware? Is grodog the invisible man? Quite frankly, I was a bit suprised to see their supportiveness of such a venture but what they hey, I think it both goes to show the diversity in the attitudes of the staff of CF and also just how exceptionally mistaken you are in your claims.
Almost forgot this one. This was my bad. I'll spend the rest of the day flogging myself for it. I do retract this in and of its entirety. I had not made the connection between several of the aforementioned individuals and their association with CF. I was indeed mistaken and I'm actually quite grateful to you for pointing it out. My turn to not read things through. It happens. Not that I enjoy it when it does, but it happens. To those individuals, I do offer my apologies in hindsight.
Originally posted by CryptoNova
1) I suggest the site as an experiment to test the viability of Greyhawk by seeing what is was that was needed, and what was wanted. We would use the site to publish articles and use the feedback to try and come to a middle ground that would appeal to the largest amount of people.
I find this especially interesting because you don't seem capable or willing of giving proper feedback yourself. Instead, you say CF is broken in a public forum, denounce it and claim that you're going to do better.
Well, gee... if you had given feedback to CF, maybe, just maybe, it could be improved.
Funny how that works, you know, logic.
Originally posted by CryptoNova
2) Really, you would think there would be less hostility. Is it now a crime to have a fansite? Why is it that you are getting all defensive about having another fansite? All we are trying to do is provide some method for newbies to enter the game.
When someone disses my homie, yer damn right I get defensive. Although, I have heard replication is a form of praise...
Originally posted by CryptoNova
History is a wonderful thing, and experienced roleplayers can handle the vast quantities of information, such as those stored at canonfire.
Oh, what a load of rot. Since when is there a sign stating, "To enter Canonfire, you must read X amount of articles to qualify!"?
I mean, really, you're being silly. CF is a resource. You want an article on wines of the Flanaess? Do a search on CF and see what pops up. Have a skim, if you like it, use it, if you don't, don't.
What a load of BS to say that there's somehow some imaginary quota of GH lore you have to accumulate to be worthy of CF. It's people like you who make up this BS and spread it, not the people of CF or GT.
Originally posted by CryptoNova
If they want to begin fleshing everything out to excruiating detail by reading through all the 1E & 2E stuff, they know where to go.
How is this even remotely related to Canonfire?
Canonfire is a resource for GH fans and an outlet for creative people... use it or don't, whatever... but don't you dare abuse it...
Your pretty sharp. You should try using you powers for the forces of good sometime, or do you enjoy hammering people on the web?
Lets try to give some constructive criticism rather than just criticism....
It thrives and remains important as ever. I know Living Greyhawk people who use the site regularly and consult it as a resource both for their official and non-offical games. I'm not the biggest fan of Living Greyhawk, but I say that in fairness as I know LG is but one chapter in Greyhawk's history, not the curtain call.
Canonfire was a movement born of necessity and will be around for a long time. Let's remember that when Greyhawk starts growing again.
By the way, check out Mel's comment on the Meta-board.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Aeolis(sp?) underwater website seems to not have gone 'belly-up' (pun intended). But, according to you, it should have or will within time.
1. I am particularly stubborn
2. Eventually, my site will be gone - granted, I'll be dead, at that time ;)
To be a fan of the GH setting means different things to different people. Me, I don't run city adventures, though I do have a dozen planned out in my head (beginning with "Slipshod" a game set in a stable). I'm fascinated with the "Mysterious Places" of GH (per "Greyhawk Adventures") and hags. So, those themes end up in all of my campaigns. I also have a fascination with the sea. I have plans for a three-part module using the Jungle of Lost Ships, Turucambi, and Sinking Isle. If you think my undersea campaign is unusual, take a gander at my all-animal campaign concept, set in the Suss Forest near the lost city. The campaign will be run via IRC, one of these days. http://www.lobi.com/nob/
In my mind, a resurgence of GH enthusiasm would not be restricted to "Into the Flanaess". I have always envisioned "Greyhawk Unbound: Beyond the Core". RPGA has Living Greyhawk - a clumsily organized event for Cons. Greyhawk Unbound would be web-based; a repository for chat-based, message-based, and email-based games.
I never felt excluded by GH fans -- whether in the AOL folder, on Greytalk, Greyhawk-L, or this message board (and its prior incarnation). Initially I felt trepidation to post, but quickly I learned to write carefully, reference when useful, and enjoy the creativity of online discussion. Yes, people will occasionally flame you, but cyberspace can't "break your bones."
If Canonfire! seems encyclopedic to newer fans, that's probably because one of the site's mandates is to archive all that has come before it. However, I have yet to read any examples of websites that posters find highly accessible, i.e. what they are comparing CF!'s accessibility against. Posting examples would be useful both for the editors of CF! and for any fans wishing to make a new website.
Take good care.