Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dragontooth Jul 10, 2003 17:38:30	For those that have the DLCS. How do they do the Kender Taunt? Does the Tauntee lose -2 AC, Attack, Save rolls? Flatfooted? Is it based on bluff check? charisma? level of the kender? just seen so many version of it, just a bit curious.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 10, 2003 22:57:33	taunt for kender. You get +4 racial bonus on all bluff checks used to taunt someone.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 0:07:51	Ok .. what does that mean? You can bluff them into believing something? Isn't that way off from what a taunt is supposed to be?
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 0:18:07	I guess the Bluff skill is used for taunt. It doesn't do the same thing as Bluff, but uses your bonus and such. I guess.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 0:39:01	If that is the case .. what are the effects of the taunt? I've heard it explained twice as a "+4 racial bonus to bluff." If the effect of it isn't something akin to making the recipient go in a rage and attack at a lower AC (About said higher AC .. still stuck in 1st and 2nd edition rules) then it will be tweaked in my campaign.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 3:42:51	I personnally think the taunt ability was a little too much from the start. It's ok that kenders can eventually be attacked in blindless rage (thus the penalties) by the ones they taunt, but the latter shouldn't have to (as in compulsion). I prefer handling this (get it?) through role-play: this way some innapropriate situations are prevented from happening... Mori Luckspringer: You stick-in-the-mud, boring, stuck-up, no fun excuse for an honorable man... A minotaur's got more hornor than you! Gunthar Uth Wistan: Grrhhhhhhargghhhhhh!!!!! Kill !!!!!
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 5:07:11	Ha! I see you've never been taunted by a kender. A kender's taunt is the verbal equavalent of slicing your ball sack open, pouring in some salted lemon juice, stapleing it shut, followed with a sledgehammer castration. Sure, in theory - you might not flinch when that's being done to you. Just like, in theory, you can resist a kender taunting you. -Robert
#8 carteeg Jul 11, 2003 7:35:56	The only way I've seen people resist the taunt is that they only start to get p***ed off (made their Will Saves for that round preventing them from raging) and then a party member of the kender will take their action to wrap their arm and hand around the kender's head and mouth and drag them off.
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2003 8:26:58	The Taunt is an aspect of the Bluff skill...technically usable by anyone now, although kender are the masters of it. Basically, Taunt is a resisted Bluff vs. Sense Motive skill check, requiring a standard action (but not provoking an AoO). If the target fails, they suffer a -1 to AC and attacks until your next action. An enemy distracted by your taunts is likely to direct his next action at you, but is under no compulsion to do so. Christopher
#10 carteeg Jul 12, 2003 20:19:01	Suggestion for those who want to have the compulsion attack detail of the taunt, how's this as an optional rule? If the target fails the check by more than 10, the compulsion to attack takes place in addition to the official effects. [Edit: Okay, maybe 'attack' is too strong of a word. 'Act' is better. Using the Sir Gunthar example, maybe he wouldn't take out his sword and go all Hulk, but he could possibly order (in a very p***ed off tone) the kender's arrest for disturbing the peace.]
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 13, 2003 19:44:32	On the subject of kender, what does the DLCS say about kender pouches?
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 13, 2003 20:42:03	Better yet, as I've seen a few ton of info on the classes put out, why doesn't someone give us the game info on Kender :D -Robert
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 14, 2003 20:40:39	Woot! The new In the Works Column has full kender racial traits. And some information on Draconians! Except their CR... This may be player Draconian stuff without stats. Not sure. Still nothing on Kender pouches though. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030713a It also still says the DLCS is due out in August. *cross fingers*
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 26, 2003 21:53:12	The Taunt is an aspect of the Bluff skill...technically usable by anyone now Is this something specific to the DLCS? Because I haven't found any mention of it in my shiny new 3.5 books. If it is I'm going to have to add something like that to my General House Rules. With big circumstance bonuses for good role-playing.
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2003 9:32:53	I can't say for 3.5, but if you bothered reading the BLuff Skill description under the skills section of your phb, you would see a little section called feinting in combat . You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in combat so that he can't dodge your attack effectively. Doing so is a miscellaneous standard action that does not provoke an AoO. If you are successful, the next attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn. Feinting in this way against a non-humanoid is difficult because it's harder to read a strange creature's body language; you suffer a -4 penalty. Against a creature of animal intelligence (1 or 2) it's even harder; you suffer a -8 penalty. Against non-intelligent creatuers, it's impossible. DLCS Kendar get a +4 bonus to Bluff, but only when performing the taunt/feint.
#16 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2003 9:49:23	Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon I can't say for 3.5, but if you bothered reading the BLuff Skill description under the skills section of your phb, you would see a little section called feinting in combat . DLCS Kendar get a +4 bonus to Bluff, but only when performing the taunt/feint. A feint is an attack with a weapon to draw an opponent's guard away from your true target. I suppose shouting insults might cause them to lower their guard and this could be considered the same in game terms, however in real-world terms there is a huge difference between feinting an attack and taunting an opponent.
#17 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2003 10:19:53	We have a kendar player in our group and the DLCS isn't out yet here, so could someone with the DLCS please explain this? SO far we are just using the feinting rules, but that doesn't make anyone attack.
#18 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 03, 2003 12:17:05	With the new taunt "exceptional ability" from the DLCS: In combat you make a Bluff check versus the opponents sense motive. If you are successful they are "nettled" and recieve a -1 to attack rolls and AC until your next action. It is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Anyone can do this, not just kender, and the opponent, may or may not attack you because of it. I reserve comment on this ability. The Age of Mortals has an Improved Taunt feat which I will probably give to my kender for free (along with a kender weapon proficieny). The Improved Taunt feat gives a -2 to attack and AC, effects last for 1 round +CHR bonus and shifts the opponents attitude two degrees for the worse (Indifferent becomes Hostile). Hostile NPC/PC will "take risks to hurt you". (page 72 of the New Players Handbook or NPC attitudes in the 3.0 DMG for more info)
#19 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2003 12:23:46	How are all of you guys playing with Kendar? I thought only the rules for Kender had been released. Though, I would love to see some Kendar :D -Robert
#20 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 03, 2003 12:26:11	The Kencyclopedia Kender Handbook has stats for Kendar. ;) Check my sig for the link.
#21 sweetmeats Aug 03, 2003 15:32:58	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo With the new taunt "exceptional ability" from the DLCS: In combat you make a Bluff check versus the opponents sense motive. If you are successful they are "nettled" and recieve a -1 to attack rolls and AC until your next action. It is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Anyone can do this, not just kender, and the opponent, may or may not attack you because of it. I reserve comment on this ability. Is it a flat -1 penalty or does it increase with character levels at all? If its a flat -1 then its not good enough.
#22 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 03, 2003 15:46:13	it's a flat -1 for everyone (kender and non-kender) regardless of level and does not go up. It's more like a special attack now (like feint).
#23 sweetmeats Aug 03, 2003 15:48:27	Thats a dissapointment. I think I'll copy yourself and give the improved taunt as a free feat to Kender.
#24 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2003 19:40:50	Kender get +4 to bluff you say? That makes a kender rogue very nasty indeed. If you bluff a foe (feint) and they fail their opposed sense motive check that leaves them flat footed for your next attack on them. Flat footed equals backstab. A single kender rogue able to backstab every round (more or less) working by himself! Standard action - bluff feint, standard action - single attack. He wont even need to get into a flank position! That in itself is pretty nasty. +4 will keep them well ahead of foes of equal level.
#25 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 03, 2003 19:45:31	The +4 only applies to Bluff when used for Taunt. Not for any other use (ie Feint). Unless the DM allows it of course. :D In which case that would be very handy, for a kender "handler".
#26 zombiegleemax Aug 04, 2003 2:36:48	OKay, so lemme see if I get this right; Feinting (is described in the PHB) is used by bluff and the target looses dex to AC. Taunt (is described only in the DLCS?) and is similar to Feinting but the target looses -1 to attack and AC. Kender get a +4 racial to bluff when taunting, but NOT for anything else. Everyone can taunt, just like everyone can feint, but kendar get the +4 bonus cuz they're genetically annoying. In the DLCS there is also an Improved Taunt feat that increases the taunt to a -2 to attack and AC. correct?
#27 sweetmeats Aug 04, 2003 6:56:24	Even if you have the improved taunt, and have a -2 taunt penalty, thats just not very good. Its fair at low levels but as the character gain levels, that penalty isn't going to make a difference to the opponents he faces.
#28 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 04, 2003 7:44:36	Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon OKay, so lemme see if I get this right; Feinting (is described in the PHB) is used by bluff and the target looses dex to AC. True. Taunt (is described only in the DLCS?) and is similar to Feinting but the target looses -1 to attack and AC. True and the opponent does not feel compelled to attack you. Kender get a +4 racial to bluff when taunting, but NOT for anything else. True. Everyone can taunt, just like everyone can feint, but kendar get the +4 bonus cuz they're genetically annoying. True. In the DLCS there is also an Improved Taunt feat that increases the taunt to a -2 to attack and AC. correct? Improved Taunt is in the Age of Mortals. It gives a -2 to hit and AC, for a number of rounds equal to 1 + CHR bonus and (unlike taunt) it shifts the attitude of the opponent more Hostile (which makes them actually want to hurt you and take risks doing so). So you're not just ignored or considered a nuicense. You can also taunt crowds (Like Tas in Tarsis) to shift the attitude of an entire crowd of people for the worse.
#29 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Aug 04, 2003 7:52:53	Originally posted by SweetMeats Even if you have the improved taunt, and have a -2 taunt penalty, thats just not very good. Its fair at low levels but as the character gain levels, that penalty isn't going to make a difference to the opponents he faces. Well, the bonuses may not improve, but the fact that you can rile someone up and make them want to run a sword through you "specifically" can still be an advantage. Plus the fact that it can last longer than one round and you can effect groups of people to incite riots... It's not just not like it just increases (decreases?) the -1 to a -2. *shrug*
#30 zombiegleemax Aug 27, 2003 15:29:24	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo With the new taunt "exceptional ability" from the DLCS: In combat you make a Bluff check versus the opponents sense motive. If you are successful they are "nettled" and recieve a -1 to attack rolls and AC until your next action. It is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Anyone can do this, not just kender, and the opponent, may or may not attack you because of it. I reserve comment on this ability. The Age of Mortals has an Improved Taunt feat which I will probably give to my kender for free (along with a kender weapon proficieny). The Improved Taunt feat gives a -2 to attack and AC, effects last for 1 round +CHR bonus and shifts the opponents attitude two degrees for the worse (Indifferent becomes Hostile). Hostile NPC/PC will "take risks to hurt you". (page 72 of the New Players Handbook or NPC attitudes in the 3.0 DMG for more info) kender in my game will DEFINATLY get improved taunt free! now, you mentioned someting about kender weapon proficiancy??? better yet, if the AoM has a feat for kender weapons, does it have the weapons themselves???
#31 sweetmeats Aug 27, 2003 17:59:52	Originally posted by CNEFD kender in my game will DEFINATLY get improved taunt free! now, you mentioned someting about kender weapon proficiancy??? better yet, if the AoM has a feat for kender weapons, does it have the weapons themselves??? The other races each get a racial weapon proficiency for free, so I'm allowing Hoopak as free for Kender.
#32 zombiegleemax Aug 27, 2003 18:17:04	personally, i'd just have weapon familiarity, like dwarves. All kenders treat kender weapons (such as a hoopak) as a martial weapon instead of exotic.
#33 sweetmeats Aug 27, 2003 18:24:21	Sorry, yes, thats what I meant.