Adepts? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Adepts?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
star_gazer_02
Jul 18, 2003 21:23:51 Some good points have been raised recently on how Athas treats the NPC classes. They all have their places:

Warrior is obvious
Expert is too
Aristocrat = Noble
Commoner, duh.

But what about the Adept? Should it be killed? Is there a place for the mechanic?

I happen to think so. The Adept seems to have a perfect place amongst the intelligent humanoids that don't live in cities. I'd make their magic divine by default though, with the DM's option being that the adepts of a particular tribe can be defilers or preservers.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 21, 2003 7:46:03 IMHO it's again a question of your point of view on Athas or on the conversion. The two variant is:

1) Why should adept included?
2) Why not should be adept included?

In the first case, adept is not existing. All such shaman-like things would be clerics and druids.

In the second case you have to choose the source of power. But:
-if it is divine, why are they not clerics or druids?
-if it is arcane, are they defilers or preservers?
-if it is other, than it is an ever bigger problem, see the 'bard revised' thread about that.

My personal opinion: get rid off adept. Causes too much headache compared to the benefit to have such class. And flavourwise questionable. You won't miss adepts if you have tribal shamans from the cleric class. 2e also worked splendidly with clerics in such roles without adepts.

Don't make me wrong, I like adepts in Greyhawk or FR. But not on Athas.
#3
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 21, 2003 11:27:28 Or adapt to psionic - maybe the Adept could be someone who isn't formally trained in the psionic academies under the Tarandian Way. As such, they are more restricted, and usually found in the more remote places, where Tarandian teachings may not have reached/be too well known about.
#4
star_gazer_02
Jul 21, 2003 12:01:07 Non tarandan psion = psion in DS3... Tarandan psiologist is apparently going to be a prestige class.

The adept is supposed to represent untutored spell use. And I just checked the DMG, they cast Divine spells (p. 37 3.0 DMG) so there isn't a real problem... they can just be untutored clerics who are 'making it up as they go along'.

Another question to ask is "Is there a good reason why they shouldn't be included?"

I can't think of one... they fit the flavor of Athas really well: you don't always get to have the knowledge you may want or need to fulfil your destiny.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 22, 2003 9:10:42
Originally posted by Star Gazer
Non tarandan psion = psion in DS3... Tarandan psiologist is apparently going to be a prestige class.

The adept is supposed to represent untutored spell use. And I just checked the DMG, they cast Divine spells (p. 37 3.0 DMG) so there isn't a real problem... they can just be untutored clerics who are 'making it up as they go along'.

Another question to ask is "Is there a good reason why they shouldn't be included?"

I can't think of one... they fit the flavor of Athas really well: you don't always get to have the knowledge you may want or need to fulfil your destiny.

As I said, Adept is fine on Greyhawk. The reason that they have mystical powers coming from obscure divine source is acceptable there.

But not on Athas, where every power has its source. There are 3 types of divine sources: sorcerer kings, elementals, and spirits of the land. But if they choose (and all of them are a very picky branch, indeed) to give power to somebody they make it a templar, cleric or druid, respectively. Why would any of them make an adept? I can imagine it as a very special case only, not enough to warrant a class in itself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 star_gazer_02 Jul 18, 2003 21:23:51	Some good points have been raised recently on how Athas treats the NPC classes. They all have their places: Warrior is obvious Expert is too Aristocrat = Noble Commoner, duh. But what about the Adept? Should it be killed? Is there a place for the mechanic? I happen to think so. The Adept seems to have a perfect place amongst the intelligent humanoids that don't live in cities. I'd make their magic divine by default though, with the DM's option being that the adepts of a particular tribe can be defilers or preservers.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 21, 2003 7:46:03	IMHO it's again a question of your point of view on Athas or on the conversion. The two variant is: 1) Why should adept included? 2) Why not should be adept included? In the first case, adept is not existing. All such shaman-like things would be clerics and druids. In the second case you have to choose the source of power. But: -if it is divine, why are they not clerics or druids? -if it is arcane, are they defilers or preservers? -if it is other, than it is an ever bigger problem, see the 'bard revised' thread about that. My personal opinion: get rid off adept. Causes too much headache compared to the benefit to have such class. And flavourwise questionable. You won't miss adepts if you have tribal shamans from the cleric class. 2e also worked splendidly with clerics in such roles without adepts. Don't make me wrong, I like adepts in Greyhawk or FR. But not on Athas.
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 21, 2003 11:27:28	Or adapt to psionic - maybe the Adept could be someone who isn't formally trained in the psionic academies under the Tarandian Way. As such, they are more restricted, and usually found in the more remote places, where Tarandian teachings may not have reached/be too well known about.
#4 star_gazer_02 Jul 21, 2003 12:01:07	Non tarandan psion = psion in DS3... Tarandan psiologist is apparently going to be a prestige class. The adept is supposed to represent untutored spell use. And I just checked the DMG, they cast Divine spells (p. 37 3.0 DMG) so there isn't a real problem... they can just be untutored clerics who are 'making it up as they go along'. Another question to ask is "Is there a good reason why they shouldn't be included?" I can't think of one... they fit the flavor of Athas really well: you don't always get to have the knowledge you may want or need to fulfil your destiny.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2003 9:10:42	Originally posted by Star Gazer Non tarandan psion = psion in DS3... Tarandan psiologist is apparently going to be a prestige class. The adept is supposed to represent untutored spell use. And I just checked the DMG, they cast Divine spells (p. 37 3.0 DMG) so there isn't a real problem... they can just be untutored clerics who are 'making it up as they go along'. Another question to ask is "Is there a good reason why they shouldn't be included?" I can't think of one... they fit the flavor of Athas really well: you don't always get to have the knowledge you may want or need to fulfil your destiny. As I said, Adept is fine on Greyhawk. The reason that they have mystical powers coming from obscure divine source is acceptable there. But not on Athas, where every power has its source. There are 3 types of divine sources: sorcerer kings, elementals, and spirits of the land. But if they choose (and all of them are a very picky branch, indeed) to give power to somebody they make it a templar, cleric or druid, respectively. Why would any of them make an adept? I can imagine it as a very special case only, not enough to warrant a class in itself.