Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kelsen Jul 21, 2003 13:38:04	In the forgotten realms camping setting I found interesting guidelines for the effects of using heavy armor in hot climates. For armors with armor check penalty -5 or higher... after one hour wearing these armors you get fatigued as if had slept in armor (as rules of the phb).
#2 star_gazer_02 Jul 21, 2003 14:35:43	The rules are much harsher on Athas... you take subdual damage, then real damage for sustained temperatures above 160. The armor check penalty is applied to your dc 15 fort save per hour + number of previous hours roll. See page 43 of the DS3 doc. Wow... I think I'm the first person, EVER to say RTM! YAY! I win! I win! I win!
#3 kelsen Jul 21, 2003 14:48:38	I know athas.org use the heat rules from DMG in a different scale using armor check penalties instead of the general -4 to modify the check. What I'm trying to suggest is that the rules I've posted don't exclude the heat rules from DMG, there are compatible. You can use the standar heat rules from DMG and use the rules for armor and heat wich is another aspect. The greatest advantage I see is that you don't have to make four fortitudes saves per day (or more), you just use plain modifiers.
#4 jon_oracle_of_athas Jul 21, 2003 15:43:40	Kelsen, the Fortitude Saves are there regardless of armor worn as a result of high temperature. It's just the penalty applied to the Fort. Save that increases depending on the armor worn. As for *metal armor*, that fatigue element could mesh well with existing rules. And Stargazer, temperatures *never* reach the abysmal range.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 21, 2003 22:57:30	And Stargazer, temperatures *never* reach the abysmal range. I would beg to differ. Although the natural temperatures wouldn't normally get that high, the averages for a particular season would have a 15 degree variable. Depending on where you are in elevation, that would further add to or decrease the temperature. So, if the temps top out at around 130 during noon at the hight of High Sun (summer), if you were in an open valley, you could easily expect temps to be in excess of 165 or more. Death Valley California is a prime example of this where the temperature averages 15-35 degrees higher than the equivalent latitude at sea level. The Athasian Death Valley is the Dragon's Bowl. Temperatures there could well be 20-25 degrees over the average temperature and top out at 150-160 (slightly below the Abysmal range, but that's at least close and could be fudged for climactic purposes). The other area where extreme heat would come into play would be the Lava Gorge on the Scortched Platau.Within a few miles of it, temperatures would probably be only a few degrees higher. Noticable, but nothing major. It would be those approaching within the last few hundred feet. At 500 yards, temps could be 5 degrees higher, rising another 5 degrees for every 100 yards closer one gets. A 'normal' person could not stand within a few feet of open lava for more than a minute or so before suffering ill effects (and on Earth, such open lava would be a small run off from a volcano, not a 100+ mile wide pit). At the edge, I would imagine the temperatures to be in excess of 180 degrees (higher than the 145 degree average at 5 feet from a small open lava source the size of a bathtub). So, it would be very, very rare to have temps in the Abysmal range, but not impossible. Also consider magical effects that can raise temperatures, being inside a burning building, etc. Like I said, rare, but not impossible.
#6 star_gazer_02 Jul 22, 2003 2:33:14	I'm gonna have to agree w/ mach on this one. I can easily see some (of course not all) parts of athas reaching near boiling during high noon or shortly thereafter: The Dead Lands come to mind. Thousands of square miles of midnight black obsidian... that place probably affects global weather patterns and could be one of the major reasons athas seems to have dried up.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2003 2:35:55	You make a fine point Stargazer. I hadn't thought about what kinds of global effects the Deadlands would cause. That much reflective black area would cause major thermals and severe wind conditions. Scalding hot winds at high speeds . . . just makes me want to vaction there all the more ;)
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2003 8:28:19	I think Afghan made a thread here somewhere about Athasian geography. It would be good to discuss such things in that as it is a bit off here, but a very interesting topic nevertheless. At least not a new variant on defilers/preservers, so Nyt can breath easily...:D
#9 jon_oracle_of_athas Jul 22, 2003 11:30:48	So, if the temps top out at around 130 during noon at the hight of High Sun (summer) [...] DS Rules Book and Wanderer's Chronicle state that there are no temperature variations with athasian seasons (though Ivory Traingle contradicts that.), so going with DSRB and WC, whether it is summer or not is irrelevant. So, it would be very, very rare to have temps in the Abysmal range, but not impossible. Also consider magical effects that can raise temperatures, being inside a burning building, etc. Like I said, rare, but not impossible. Never say never, isn't that what they say? As you probably realize, I was referring to what travelers would experience on Athas. I'll yield to special cases, such as dancing on the edge of an erupting volcano etc. So, allow me to rephrase: Temperatures normally don't reach the abysmal range. There are some exceptions if the DM wills it, but travellers generally need not fear abysmal temperature. Also, Stargazer, the game mechanical effects of the Dead Lands are treated specifically in the DS3 Adventure chapter, and you'll also note that Salt Flats have some of the same effect.
#10 kelsen Jul 23, 2003 16:24:40	Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas Kelsen, the Fortitude Saves are there regardless of armor worn as a result of high temperature. It's just the penalty applied to the Fort. Save that increases depending on the armor worn. As for *metal armor*, that fatigue element could mesh well with existing rules. I know... what I was trying to say is that you don't have to make fortitude saves to endure high temperature every time or every day, however, the fatigue caused by wearing medium or heavy armor in such hot climates hurts you all the way. These are the rules transcripted from Forgotten Realms campaing setting, concerning the regions of the Desert of Anauroch, Calim Desert, and Chultan Peninsula as well: Any character wearing armor that has an armor check penalty of -5 or worse for more than an hour becomes fatigued as if he had slept in armor (-2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, cannot charge or run). He remains fatigued as long as he wears the armor and for 1 full hour after he removes it. Characters in hot climates will only wear medium armor (such as chain mail) under strong need when the battle is imminent.