Modrons vs Inevitables? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Modrons vs Inevitables?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
factol_rhys_dup
Jul 21, 2003 15:22:28 In case anyone's been in a coma or something, the Manual of the Planes includes a new race called the inevitables and, tragically, modrons are only included in a web supplement. Now that anyone who somehow missed this is up to date, what does everyone think about this? Who're the real rulers of Mechanus? And, probably more importantly, who's the real planeborn for Mechanus?

To submit my own opinion, I can never give up on the modrons being the planeborn of law. It seems to me that it's only right that the modrons remain the race born of Mechanus and the true planeborn. I don't like the MotP seemingly replacing the modrons overnight and reducing them to "alien beings" who sit around in their realm of Rigus and do nothing. If anyone working on the PS3E project sees this, which one is the exemplar and which is just a curious planar race?

Maybe the two of them could be divided. Modrons could be the living representation of order, being perfectly uniform and united. Inevitables could be the living representation of law, pursuing the perfection of the natural laws of the multiverse. It could be interesting if a covert war were being fought between the two that most cutters didn't know about. What does everyone else think?
#2
weenie
Jul 21, 2003 19:39:41 As I've said on another thread (same forum), I really miss modrons and don't think inevitables can adequately replace them, at least not without some story about organization, rulership, general purpose, etc.

That being said, I really like the inevitables, all five of them (3 in MotP and 2 in MM2 or FF, I forget). The concept is well thought-out, the illustrations are nice, they are interesting and playable. However, IMHO/IMC they are not the LN exemplars. Whether it's because I am too sentimental about the boxes, or because I just don't have enough info to set up the inevitables as a full planar race (as opposed to just a bunch of kewl konstrukts), I don't know.

I can see them as inhabitants of Mechanus, sure, maybe servants/creations of a LN Power (egyptian, hindu, whatever), but not as one of the four "major" outer races.

I believe the PS3E people, being mostly 2E PS freaks, have modrons as LN exemplars... something like that is mentioned in the race chapter preview at planewalker.com IIRC.

Edit: And besides, the Great Modron March is huge for us sinkers, what are we now supposed to want to break, the Great Inevitable March!?
#3
kilamar
Jul 22, 2003 6:09:06 First of all inevitables are not new. They are part of D&D and AD&D for a long time now.
Second, I would not call them a race unless you think Golems are a race too.

Inevitables are constructed servants of gods, somewhat like Retrievers are servants to Demonlords.
Modrons are the embodiment of their plane while inevitables just have an LN alignment. Maybe inevitables are made on Mechanus, maybe not.

Kilamar
#4
factol_rhys_dup
Jul 22, 2003 14:14:21 I only remember the Marut as being present in D&D before the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes (and now the 3.5 MM). And there wasn't any mention of other constructs associated with it. I could be wrong, but they're a new addition to me.
#5
primemover003
Jul 22, 2003 21:27:17 All the the other Inevitables are new except the Marut, which is a Hindu Disease God's proxies, Vudra I believe. Modrons are much cooler, and they hang out in Regulus, not Rigus. Rigus is the Gatetown to Acheron...
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 23, 2003 11:35:38 Inevitibles are definetely cool, but Modrons are so much more.
#7
saurstalk
Jul 23, 2003 12:17:37 Also, if I recall correctly, MoP is not to replace Planescape. Rather, it's to expand upon game play for DnD. As such, there have historically been contradictions between the two. This is unfortunate, because MoP is the closest thing WotC has to an official release involving Planescape. The prior "disclaimer" also disregards the fact that MoP covers Sigil, the planes and an array of Planescape-related facets. Still . . . NOT a substitute for Planescape.

So, what are we left with? Modrons in Planescape? Inevitables in MoP? Can PS3E bring them together seamlessly to make sense of the multiverse?

Who knows.

I know my quirky modron druid is anxiously twiddling his manipulation digits in anticipation.
#8
weenie
Jul 29, 2003 13:32:30
Originally posted by primemover003
Marut, which is a Hindu Disease God's proxies, Vudra I believe.

Wasn't it Rudra? I forget.

I can't believe I'm to lazy to check and not too lazy to post a reply...
#9
christuschristus
Jul 29, 2003 15:26:45 Rudra is the power.

I don't think the Inevitables replace the modrons (although it's easy to come to that conclusion when one is in the book and the other isn't). I don't see any problem with them coexisting. Mechanus is plenty big. If I had to say that if WotC "replaced" the modrons with anyone, it would be with the formians. The Inevitables are just lawful machines, servants of a power. The modrons are much more.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2003 16:05:49 "The Inevitables are just lawful machines, servants of a power. The modrons are much more."

Or less, depending on who you ask.
#11
christuschristus
Jul 29, 2003 16:19:58 I'm just referring to depth of concept (which is, of course, subjective).

I put modrons up there with the gith and the slaad as far as iconic, unique D&D races go. Nothing against the Inevitables. But again, I don't take them for a replacement for the modrons as *the* representative race of Mechanus, nor do I think they're intended to be. They're the minions of Set to the baatezu.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2003 5:21:30 Oh, absolutely. I was speaking in terms of whether a created servant with a divine mission could actually be considered "lesser" to a rigidly lawful automaton.

I much prefer the modrons.

In my campaign, Inevitables are merely specialized modrons made by the One and the Prime specifically to hunt out the major agents of chaos in the multiverse. Yeah, it bends both the modron and inevitable ideals a little, but it's fun and functional. And, most importantly, it works for me and my group.
#13
christuschristus
Jul 30, 2003 10:46:01 I wouldn't tell an Inevitable to its face that they're just weak sisters to the modrons. Proxy constructs are nothing to sneeze at.
#14
weenie
Jul 30, 2003 19:39:19 The issue is not which race is kewler (we all know modrons are , but rather why the inevitables appear in three books (MotP, FF, MM2), and modrons in one web enhancement.

Truth be told, the WE did already cover pretty much all modron types...
#15
christuschristus
Jul 30, 2003 23:53:41 Yeah, modrons are limited by nature as to how many types there can be. I'm glad they did the web enhancement; better than nothing. But they certainly deserve to be in a nice hardcover book. It's too bad WotC didn't have enough faith in the little guys. At least the gith are in the main book now.
#16
wyvern76
Jul 31, 2003 4:29:33
Originally posted by Iegan
In my campaign, Inevitables are merely specialized modrons made by the One and the Prime specifically to hunt out the major agents of chaos in the multiverse. Yeah, it bends both the modron and inevitable ideals a little, but it's fun and functional. And, most importantly, it works for me and my group.

Nifty.

Wyvern
#17
wyvern76
Jul 31, 2003 4:31:52
Originally posted by christuschristus
I wouldn't tell an Inevitable to its face that they're just weak sisters to the modrons. Proxy constructs are nothing to sneeze at.

Achoo!
I sneeze in your general direction!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Wyvern
#18
zombiegleemax
Aug 10, 2003 21:56:57 I believe Inevitables are mentioned in various Planescape 2E supplements: Planes of Law and the Monstrous Compendium appendixes spring to mind... I'll dig them out and see if i can find references for y'all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 factol_rhys_dup Jul 21, 2003 15:22:28	In case anyone's been in a coma or something, the Manual of the Planes includes a new race called the inevitables and, tragically, modrons are only included in a web supplement. Now that anyone who somehow missed this is up to date, what does everyone think about this? Who're the real rulers of Mechanus? And, probably more importantly, who's the real planeborn for Mechanus? To submit my own opinion, I can never give up on the modrons being the planeborn of law. It seems to me that it's only right that the modrons remain the race born of Mechanus and the true planeborn. I don't like the MotP seemingly replacing the modrons overnight and reducing them to "alien beings" who sit around in their realm of Rigus and do nothing. If anyone working on the PS3E project sees this, which one is the exemplar and which is just a curious planar race? Maybe the two of them could be divided. Modrons could be the living representation of order, being perfectly uniform and united. Inevitables could be the living representation of law, pursuing the perfection of the natural laws of the multiverse. It could be interesting if a covert war were being fought between the two that most cutters didn't know about. What does everyone else think?
#2 weenie Jul 21, 2003 19:39:41	As I've said on another thread (same forum), I really miss modrons and don't think inevitables can adequately replace them, at least not without some story about organization, rulership, general purpose, etc. That being said, I really like the inevitables, all five of them (3 in MotP and 2 in MM2 or FF, I forget). The concept is well thought-out, the illustrations are nice, they are interesting and playable. However, IMHO/IMC they are not the LN exemplars. Whether it's because I am too sentimental about the boxes, or because I just don't have enough info to set up the inevitables as a full planar race (as opposed to just a bunch of kewl konstrukts), I don't know. I can see them as inhabitants of Mechanus, sure, maybe servants/creations of a LN Power (egyptian, hindu, whatever), but not as one of the four "major" outer races. I believe the PS3E people, being mostly 2E PS freaks, have modrons as LN exemplars... something like that is mentioned in the race chapter preview at planewalker.com IIRC. Edit: And besides, the Great Modron March is huge for us sinkers, what are we now supposed to want to break, the Great Inevitable March!?
#3 kilamar Jul 22, 2003 6:09:06	First of all inevitables are not new. They are part of D&D and AD&D for a long time now. Second, I would not call them a race unless you think Golems are a race too. Inevitables are constructed servants of gods, somewhat like Retrievers are servants to Demonlords. Modrons are the embodiment of their plane while inevitables just have an LN alignment. Maybe inevitables are made on Mechanus, maybe not. Kilamar
#4 factol_rhys_dup Jul 22, 2003 14:14:21	I only remember the Marut as being present in D&D before the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes (and now the 3.5 MM). And there wasn't any mention of other constructs associated with it. I could be wrong, but they're a new addition to me.
#5 primemover003 Jul 22, 2003 21:27:17	All the the other Inevitables are new except the Marut, which is a Hindu Disease God's proxies, Vudra I believe. Modrons are much cooler, and they hang out in Regulus, not Rigus. Rigus is the Gatetown to Acheron...
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 23, 2003 11:35:38	Inevitibles are definetely cool, but Modrons are so much more.
#7 saurstalk Jul 23, 2003 12:17:37	Also, if I recall correctly, MoP is not to replace Planescape. Rather, it's to expand upon game play for DnD. As such, there have historically been contradictions between the two. This is unfortunate, because MoP is the closest thing WotC has to an official release involving Planescape. The prior "disclaimer" also disregards the fact that MoP covers Sigil, the planes and an array of Planescape-related facets. Still . . . NOT a substitute for Planescape. So, what are we left with? Modrons in Planescape? Inevitables in MoP? Can PS3E bring them together seamlessly to make sense of the multiverse? Who knows. I know my quirky modron druid is anxiously twiddling his manipulation digits in anticipation.
#8 weenie Jul 29, 2003 13:32:30	Originally posted by primemover003 Marut, which is a Hindu Disease God's proxies, Vudra I believe. Wasn't it Rudra? I forget. I can't believe I'm to lazy to check and not too lazy to post a reply...
#9 christuschristus Jul 29, 2003 15:26:45	Rudra is the power. I don't think the Inevitables replace the modrons (although it's easy to come to that conclusion when one is in the book and the other isn't). I don't see any problem with them coexisting. Mechanus is plenty big. If I had to say that if WotC "replaced" the modrons with anyone, it would be with the formians. The Inevitables are just lawful machines, servants of a power. The modrons are much more.
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2003 16:05:49	"The Inevitables are just lawful machines, servants of a power. The modrons are much more." Or less, depending on who you ask.
#11 christuschristus Jul 29, 2003 16:19:58	I'm just referring to depth of concept (which is, of course, subjective). I put modrons up there with the gith and the slaad as far as iconic, unique D&D races go. Nothing against the Inevitables. But again, I don't take them for a replacement for the modrons as the representative race of Mechanus, nor do I think they're intended to be. They're the minions of Set to the baatezu.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2003 5:21:30	Oh, absolutely. I was speaking in terms of whether a created servant with a divine mission could actually be considered "lesser" to a rigidly lawful automaton. I much prefer the modrons. In my campaign, Inevitables are merely specialized modrons made by the One and the Prime specifically to hunt out the major agents of chaos in the multiverse. Yeah, it bends both the modron and inevitable ideals a little, but it's fun and functional. And, most importantly, it works for me and my group.
#13 christuschristus Jul 30, 2003 10:46:01	I wouldn't tell an Inevitable to its face that they're just weak sisters to the modrons. Proxy constructs are nothing to sneeze at.
#14 weenie Jul 30, 2003 19:39:19	The issue is not which race is kewler (we all know modrons are , but rather why the inevitables appear in three books (MotP, FF, MM2), and modrons in one web enhancement. Truth be told, the WE did already cover pretty much all modron types...
#15 christuschristus Jul 30, 2003 23:53:41	Yeah, modrons are limited by nature as to how many types there can be. I'm glad they did the web enhancement; better than nothing. But they certainly deserve to be in a nice hardcover book. It's too bad WotC didn't have enough faith in the little guys. At least the gith are in the main book now.
#16 wyvern76 Jul 31, 2003 4:29:33	Originally posted by Iegan In my campaign, Inevitables are merely specialized modrons made by the One and the Prime specifically to hunt out the major agents of chaos in the multiverse. Yeah, it bends both the modron and inevitable ideals a little, but it's fun and functional. And, most importantly, it works for me and my group. Nifty. Wyvern
#17 wyvern76 Jul 31, 2003 4:31:52	Originally posted by christuschristus I wouldn't tell an Inevitable to its face that they're just weak sisters to the modrons. Proxy constructs are nothing to sneeze at. Achoo! I sneeze in your general direction! Sorry, couldn't resist. Wyvern
#18 zombiegleemax Aug 10, 2003 21:56:57	I believe Inevitables are mentioned in various Planescape 2E supplements: Planes of Law and the Monstrous Compendium appendixes spring to mind... I'll dig them out and see if i can find references for y'all.