I'm playing a vampire from Athas (I'm aware that they don't normally exist there, so don't bother pointing that out. ;) ), and to give an Athasian vamp DR 10/silver and magic means I'll pretty much NEVER take weapon damage.
So my DM and I are wondering...should my DR be ignored by steel weapons, or iron weapons?
Do Athasians even have the ability to make steel?
In regards to roleplaying games, steel and iron are different enough (as I outlined some of the real-world differences above) to be counted as different materials. With weapons, steel tends to hold an edge better than iron does, and iron weapons are usually heavier than their steel counterparts. Iron armor is good primarily to make you into an oven, and probably provides slightly better protection than bronze, plus there's the whole heat issue. I would say that for DR's, steel doesn't equal iron, or vice versa. Now, as steel is very rare on Athas, and commonly used to negate DR for many things, including some of the undead DR's if memory serves, I'd say the ruling has some very strong justification for allowing steel to negate, then again, vampires don't exist on Athas (and I'm not entirely certian if they would want to, what with the whole desert thing, and really strong sunlight and all) in the "core" Athasian system, or the 2nd Ed. books, the decision should fall square on your DM.
Iron and Steel... yeah, there's a real world difference, but if you can smelt one, you can smelt the other: Take iron, add carbon, voila, steel (yes, I know there's more going on than that, but why get into that level of detail in a role-playing game?). What's going to happen is that iron and steel are going to be used for the applications that they are best suited for. Give your vampire "DR XX/Metal OR Magic" if you're playing 3.5 because (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) the 'lesser' DR types are no longer trumped by magic. DR 5/silver now means just that, if it's not silver, it's subject to the DR. If you're not playing 3.5 give your vampire DR XX/metal. If you make the assumption that silvered metals (which by the way, make really crappy alloys, further excaberating the idea of differentiating between iron and steel) are about as rare on other worlds as plain old metal ones are on Athas, then you've got it about right.
It's appropriate in metal rich worlds to differentiate a bit, especially for 'historical' reasons, silvered weapons and weapons made of cold-forged iron come to mind, but on Athas, I wouldn't go further than just specifying 'metal'.
Oh, and don't worry about the 'vampire' thing, that's a hold out from 2e because 2e didn't have the concept of the template and the creators of Athas wanted to uniquify Athasian undead. Given that Vampire is a template, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that a creature with vampire-like powers can't exist on Athas.
But then, my character isn't originally FROM Athas.
He was actually drawn into the world world by Dregoth, who made use of his planar gate.Dregoth is expanding his influence into the planes...
Originally posted by Star Gazer
I have a bit of a different take than xlorep.
Iron and Steel... yeah, there's a real world difference, but if you can smelt one, you can smelt the other: Take iron, add carbon, voila, steel (yes, I know there's more going on than that, but why get into that level of detail in a role-playing game?). What's going to happen is that iron and steel are going to be used for the applications that they are best suited for. Give your vampire "DR XX/Metal OR Magic" if you're playing 3.5 because (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) the 'lesser' DR types are no longer trumped by magic. DR 5/silver now means just that, if it's not silver, it's subject to the DR. If you're not playing 3.5 give your vampire DR XX/metal. If you make the assumption that silvered metals (which by the way, make really crappy alloys, further excaberating the idea of differentiating between iron and steel) are about as rare on other worlds as plain old metal ones are on Athas, then you've got it about right.
Well, to each their own. For me, I see that in Athas, there is a working iron mine, and steel is still extremely rare on Athas (in just about every book I've seen, that is pointed out time and again), even compared to iron in general, so that would lead me as well to believe that iron and steel would be two different DR's. Steel does take a bit more work to make than iron, but generally speaking, is well worth the extra work.
It's appropriate in metal rich worlds to differentiate a bit, especially for 'historical' reasons, silvered weapons and weapons made of cold-forged iron come to mind, but on Athas, I wouldn't go further than just specifying 'metal'.
I would, but that just means my characters have an even harder time getting the matierials to combat DR's. Then again, my players all agree it matters little now, as most DR's fall within the 5, 10 or 15 marks, it's not impossible to just cope with it and fight it out regardless of material - just makes things a little more tough, not unconquerable.
Oh, and don't worry about the 'vampire' thing, that's a hold out from 2e because 2e didn't have the concept of the template and the creators of Athas wanted to uniquify Athasian undead. Given that Vampire is a template, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that a creature with vampire-like powers can't exist on Athas.
I'd allow that, only if I overhauled the vampire template to come more in-line with the other Athasian undead - then again, after that happened, it really wouldn't be a vampire, now would it? Any more than a Kaisharga is really a Lich... Didn't say they couldn't be used, just that in their MM state, vampires really don't cut it IMHO.
Originally posted by Star Gazer
Oh, and don't worry about the 'vampire' thing, that's a hold out from 2e because 2e didn't have the concept of the template and the creators of Athas wanted to uniquify Athasian undead. Given that Vampire is a template, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that a creature with vampire-like powers can't exist on Athas.
The sun maybe? :D
One more thing: garlic is fine. Chocolate is fine, too. But together it's awful. Vampire is cool. Athas is great. But together...
"Cloak of dark power creates a dusky haze around the subject. The haze does not interfere with vision, but the subject and anything she wears or carries is protected from the effects of full sunlight, even under the open, daytime sky of the surface world.
The subject also recieves a +4 resistance bonus on saves against light and darkness spells or effects."
Just slap that on a cloak/amulet/ring...whatever strikes your fancy really, and you're good to go...as long as no one dispels it or casts daylight on it...
Furthermore, my cloak is glamered to look like I'm wearing a white cloak and scale mail (I'm not on Athas, so that's not particularly noteworthy). No haze, no suspicion. Unless someone casts true seeing, but how many people can do THAT? I pretty much stay out of the sun, but if I HAVE to, I can flit about during the day with minimal problems...and as I'm no longer on Athas, the sun isn't nearly as oppressive. ;)
I think that was what attracted me the most to DS, unique undead. Sure skeletons are nice, but there's nothing like meeting an old friend of yours, with a rotting carcass and some verrry evil intentions towards you and all living things... he he he.