Advanced beings and mystic thurge - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Advanced beings and mystic thurge

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
AvaronGansdell
Jul 26, 2003 0:40:32 I am not sure if it has come up before but I was fliping through the 3.5 DMG and I came across the mystic thurge Prestige class. The one that gives you +1 arcane spellcaster/+1 Divine spellcasting every level.

and I started thinking that this would be the best way to write up a prestige class for a dragon, or a class for getting there. something like mind mage, giveing +1 to the arcane spellcaster and +1 to the psionic manifesting of the character.

Currently the biggest problem with the pre reqs for advanced beings in DS is the uslessness of a character who is 20/20 levels. by adding prestige classes like this you could atleast make the character halfway decent. so that by 20th level they could cast arcane spells as a 17th level wizard and mabye manifest psionic powers as a 13th level psion.
#2
kilamar
Jul 26, 2003 11:12:24
Originally posted by AvaronGansdell
Currently the biggest problem with the pre reqs for advanced beings in DS is the uslessness of a character who is 20/20 levels.

Sure, a 40th level character is useless.
I wonder how you play D&D.

Kilamar
#3
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 26, 2003 12:22:14 Advanced beings are something being probably redone in the future, as having a specific class-level requirement is actually considered "bad form" for making a prestige class. I toyed around with changing them a bit myself, and my changes, while apparently shot down by the majority of those who replied to it, I thought were pretty valid. There's also been talk of something like a psionic-wizard, druid or cleric version of what the mystic theurge is, but once again, PrC's haven't been the focus of the DS3 developers, rather getting the core out & completed has been.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 26, 2003 12:47:36 It should be pointed out, in any discussion of Dark Sun advanced beings, that very few advanced beings (in fact, none of the known surviving ones) achieved their state 'by the book'.

The only one who didn't quite use the Dark Lens (and this itself is dubious) is Oronis and he broke the rule, a dragon cannot become an avangion.
#5
AvaronGansdell
Jul 26, 2003 23:08:18 all of the dragons alive in 2ed still where 20th level defilers/20 level psionisists. + whatever they got from being dragons.

also I wasent stateing that a 40th level character is useless just that a 20th level wizard/20th level psion is useless compared to a striaght 40th in one class. it's simply a matter of being unable to penetrate spell resistance or haveing a caster level nearly as high as it could be. not to mention loss of many epic feats.
#6
Otakkun
Jul 27, 2003 0:59:43 I agree with you AvaronGansdell. A level 28-30 straight wizard or psion would laugh at a 20/20 psion/wizard. That is one of the main reasons why the MT exists.

Edo.
#7
player1
Jul 27, 2003 7:24:26 But, epic progression of MT on the other hand, is pretty weak.
#8
Otakkun
Jul 27, 2003 14:17:14 True, that's why the "advanced being" should be Dark Sun's epic PrC for those who choose the MT path.

Edo.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2003 2:28:02 I am running a DS game right now and used something like the mystic Theurge for Psion/Difilers. I called it the Dragon Potential. My players fought one and had a great time. and it seemed fairly balanced. They had been sent by a Nebenay to kill the guy. (because he knew the guy wanted to be a dragon, but the PCs did not.) I am running it where Dragon Kings are "Epic Dragon Potentials" with 9th level arcane and psionic powers. Then they just pick up another epic Dragon Prestige Class.

Its a heck of a lot better than making them all 40+level NPCs.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2003 5:11:53
Originally posted by AvaronGansdell
all of the dragons alive in 2ed still where 20th level defilers/20 level psionisists. + whatever they got from being dragons.

also I wasent stateing that a 40th level character is useless just that a 20th level wizard/20th level psion is useless compared to a striaght 40th in one class. it's simply a matter of being unable to penetrate spell resistance or haveing a caster level nearly as high as it could be. not to mention loss of many epic feats.

That's why I don't like the Epic thing. Until 20th level everything is fine. But only one more level up, and things become exponentially changing. The barrier is too sharp. And this is not weighted to the so many times praised CR based game balance. A 12/12 level character is weaker than a level 24 character, but in theory both should have CR 24.
#11
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2003 5:13:34 One more thing, just not to be only off: I friend of mine meshed the dragon disciple PrC with the mystic therurger as Dragon King template. I try to find his notes and publish this here somewhere.
#12
Otakkun
Aug 02, 2003 15:10:06 I hope you find this notes soon.

Edo.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 AvaronGansdell Jul 26, 2003 0:40:32	I am not sure if it has come up before but I was fliping through the 3.5 DMG and I came across the mystic thurge Prestige class. The one that gives you +1 arcane spellcaster/+1 Divine spellcasting every level. and I started thinking that this would be the best way to write up a prestige class for a dragon, or a class for getting there. something like mind mage, giveing +1 to the arcane spellcaster and +1 to the psionic manifesting of the character. Currently the biggest problem with the pre reqs for advanced beings in DS is the uslessness of a character who is 20/20 levels. by adding prestige classes like this you could atleast make the character halfway decent. so that by 20th level they could cast arcane spells as a 17th level wizard and mabye manifest psionic powers as a 13th level psion.
#2 kilamar Jul 26, 2003 11:12:24	Originally posted by AvaronGansdell Currently the biggest problem with the pre reqs for advanced beings in DS is the uslessness of a character who is 20/20 levels. Sure, a 40th level character is useless. I wonder how you play D&D. Kilamar
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 26, 2003 12:22:14	Advanced beings are something being probably redone in the future, as having a specific class-level requirement is actually considered "bad form" for making a prestige class. I toyed around with changing them a bit myself, and my changes, while apparently shot down by the majority of those who replied to it, I thought were pretty valid. There's also been talk of something like a psionic-wizard, druid or cleric version of what the mystic theurge is, but once again, PrC's haven't been the focus of the DS3 developers, rather getting the core out & completed has been.
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 26, 2003 12:47:36	It should be pointed out, in any discussion of Dark Sun advanced beings, that very few advanced beings (in fact, none of the known surviving ones) achieved their state 'by the book'. The only one who didn't quite use the Dark Lens (and this itself is dubious) is Oronis and he broke the rule, a dragon cannot become an avangion.
#5 AvaronGansdell Jul 26, 2003 23:08:18	all of the dragons alive in 2ed still where 20th level defilers/20 level psionisists. + whatever they got from being dragons. also I wasent stateing that a 40th level character is useless just that a 20th level wizard/20th level psion is useless compared to a striaght 40th in one class. it's simply a matter of being unable to penetrate spell resistance or haveing a caster level nearly as high as it could be. not to mention loss of many epic feats.
#6 Otakkun Jul 27, 2003 0:59:43	I agree with you AvaronGansdell. A level 28-30 straight wizard or psion would laugh at a 20/20 psion/wizard. That is one of the main reasons why the MT exists. Edo.
#7 player1 Jul 27, 2003 7:24:26	But, epic progression of MT on the other hand, is pretty weak.
#8 Otakkun Jul 27, 2003 14:17:14	True, that's why the "advanced being" should be Dark Sun's epic PrC for those who choose the MT path. Edo.
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2003 2:28:02	I am running a DS game right now and used something like the mystic Theurge for Psion/Difilers. I called it the Dragon Potential. My players fought one and had a great time. and it seemed fairly balanced. They had been sent by a Nebenay to kill the guy. (because he knew the guy wanted to be a dragon, but the PCs did not.) I am running it where Dragon Kings are "Epic Dragon Potentials" with 9th level arcane and psionic powers. Then they just pick up another epic Dragon Prestige Class. Its a heck of a lot better than making them all 40+level NPCs.
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2003 5:11:53	Originally posted by AvaronGansdell all of the dragons alive in 2ed still where 20th level defilers/20 level psionisists. + whatever they got from being dragons. also I wasent stateing that a 40th level character is useless just that a 20th level wizard/20th level psion is useless compared to a striaght 40th in one class. it's simply a matter of being unable to penetrate spell resistance or haveing a caster level nearly as high as it could be. not to mention loss of many epic feats. That's why I don't like the Epic thing. Until 20th level everything is fine. But only one more level up, and things become exponentially changing. The barrier is too sharp. And this is not weighted to the so many times praised CR based game balance. A 12/12 level character is weaker than a level 24 character, but in theory both should have CR 24.
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2003 5:13:34	One more thing, just not to be only off: I friend of mine meshed the dragon disciple PrC with the mystic therurger as Dragon King template. I try to find his notes and publish this here somewhere.
#12 Otakkun Aug 02, 2003 15:10:06	I hope you find this notes soon. Edo.