What I really want to know is, does the spell list give the right sort of flavour?
The Athasian Bard
However, certainly if you do not want to make a distinction between the spell casting mechanic and wizardly magic then there is a problem, I do agree.
Preserving and Defiling is not an aspect of the wizard class, but of arcane magic. Arcane magic is arcane magic. And all arcane magic is subject to the Preserver / Defiler rules (whatever they may be).
Which means, that if you introduce sorcerers to the setting (a perfectly reasonable thing to do) then they are subject to the same spellcasting rules as wizards are.
Which also means that I really don't like the idea of a spellcasting bard who still casts arcane spells, but somehow manages to finagle his way out of having a defined spell source.
Dark Sun thematic element: all spell come from an identifiable source.
Anyway, the current Athasian bard can produce spell-like effects without a source. I've tried really quite not to build on things that weren't already there, at least in part.
The way there written at the moment they are driven by the bard's psionic potential, for the most part.
If that's the case, then convert the spells to powers and give the bard something akin to a psychic warrior's progression table. It makes more sense that way thematically, it gives you a versetile bard (using many of the spell's you've presented as powers), and gives a slighty heavier bend to psionics on Athas. You've already got a psychic warrior, why not psychic rogue, aka the Bard?
Originally posted by Mach2.5
If that's the case, then convert the spells to powers and give the bard something akin to a psychic warrior's progression table. It makes more sense that way thematically, it gives you a versetile bard (using many of the spell's you've presented as powers), and gives a slighty heavier bend to psionics on Athas. You've already got a psychic warrior, why not psychic rogue, aka the Bard?
It's a possibility, I'll grant you that but there are a number of reasons why I went for the spell option instead. To list most of them...
The manifesting mechanic really didn't seem to fit what I was trying to do with the bard. The idea was to have the bard use ancient songs and rites to tap into a more intuitive part of his psionic potential rather than the conscious aspect of the Will and the Way. Having the bard sing the old Curse Song his master taught him works. Having his eyes glow green and a strange humming sound doesn't.
I'm not sure that there would be enough difference between a psychic warrior and psychic rogue to quite justify two separate classes. Even if there were, I'm not sure that the psychic rogue needs to be the same thing as the bard. It could probably stand alone.
Finally, if you wanted to write a completely new class, you could just keep the current Athasian bard, with a few tweaks to give it a chance. There's no point in writing a completely new class when the current Dark Sun bard is already a completely new class. The whole idea here was to adapt the core class to fit the Dark Sun setting. Similar positions have won out with the wizard and ranger classes, that they should be as close to the PHB versions as possible.
The whole idea here was to adapt the core class to fit the Dark Sun setting. Similar positions have won out with the wizard and ranger classes, that they should be as close to the PHB versions as possible
Ahhh, I had not realized this was your basic intention.
You still have flavor issues to deal with as far as the spellcasting bard goes though that I don't think can be worked around. Unless of course, you make bards able to preserve or defile as a regular athasian wizard would.
Now that I understand where your coming from, try this on.
Bards are an underground element in the city-states (at least the assy bard archetype is). Preservers and defilers are also an underground element. Bards, in their roles as poisoners, must often times collect rare herbs and animal parts from . . . less than reputable sources. Wizards must also collect herbs and animal parts and other spell components from . . . less than reputable sources. The bard's secondary role is to act as a collector of secrets and information. The wizard is in and of itself a collector of secrets and information. You can see where this is headed.
Somewhere along the way, bards and wizards are going to interact, and after so long, they probably know that they're going to interact. Wizards could easily hire bards to get rid of troublesome people who 'know too much.' Any bard worth 2 cp is going to know at least something about wizards, the veilled alliance, not so hidden defilers, etc. The bards become dabblers in magic, turning it into a style of magic that they can more easily utilize in their own role as assassins and street performers.
With this train wreck of thought, you don't have to modify the core bard at all. Just plug and play ;)
Originally posted by Mach2.5
With this train wreck of thought, you don't have to modify the core bard at all. Just plug and play ;)
If the bards learn the magic abilities from wizards, are they preserving or defiling when use these abilities (spells)?
Originally posted by Afghan
The manifesting mechanic really didn't seem to fit what I was trying to do with the bard. The idea was to have the bard use ancient songs and rites to tap into a more intuitive part of his psionic potential rather than the conscious aspect of the Will and the Way. Having the bard sing the old Curse Song his master taught him works. Having his eyes glow green and a strange humming sound doesn't.
But it is a possibility to change the normal effects in the case of bards. No humming sounds, but song, etc. Easier to have psion mechanic with some altered manifesting effect/requirement than use wizardly staff which can lead to confusion. You have to think about the players who can use the rule set. Better to avoid even the possibility of misunderstanding.
Originally posted by Nagypapi
But it is a possibility to change the normal effects in the case of bards. No humming sounds, but song, etc. Easier to have psion mechanic with some altered manifesting effect/requirement than use wizardly staff which can lead to confusion. You have to think about the players who can use the rule set. Better to avoid even the possibility of misunderstanding.
In which case, you're talking about something with verbal components rather than manifestation effects... which is traditionally a spell rather than a power. So I don't think the potential for confusion is any diminished.
I'm not proposing using wizardly stuff. I'm proposing giving bards power that use the core arcane magic rules mechanic. I do realise it's quite a controversial position, making the distinction between the rules mechanic (arcane magic) and the setting mechanic (psionic potential). It's not something I'm entirely happy with. But if you want something fairly close to the PHB bard (which is the only reason I'm spending time on this exercise at all) its the only way to do it.
D&D assumes that the 'default' explanation for supernatural effects is magic. This doesn't, much like the setting itself, hold much water in Dark Sun. The default explanation for kooky stuff is psionics. The explanation for the bard's music, as it is, is probably psionic even though it mirrors arcane magic effects (like song of freedom). Blending the two is always going to require some amount of uncomfortable compromise.
which is traditionally a spell rather than a power
The display effect for all bard 'powers' then becomes the bard's own song, music, chant, or poem, rather than the standard humming. Not every power should require the bard to sing or play music though (and the same should hold true if you opt for the spellcasting bard). Combatative spells or powers are fine with a verbal component, but stealth, misdirection, and such should still be able to be used without the song and dance.
PS: Bob's my uncle?!?!?! Oh my Bob! I can't believe it!
