Flotsam - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Flotsam

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ferratus
Jul 29, 2003 3:51:38 Hey, I'm really interested in Flotsam. Can somebody type up the description of the city in the DLCS and/or Age of Mortals? Is it still that empty place that Mary Herbert described filled with noble heroic resistance? Or is it the petty evil, greedy evil, and such that Lord Toede described? Is it the collection of scum from the Blood Sea again?
#2
Granakrs
Jul 29, 2003 4:49:17
Originally posted by ferratus
Hey, I'm really interested in Flotsam. Can somebody type up the description of the city in the DLCS and/or Age of Mortals? Is it still that empty place that Mary Herbert described filled with noble heroic resistance? Or is it the petty evil, greedy evil, and such that Lord Toede described? Is it the collection of scum from the Blood Sea again?

Why can't they be all of the above?

Granak Red-Silver
Sivak
#3
ferratus
Jul 31, 2003 5:46:50 Because... a town where there is only one Theives' Guild, which is part of the town council and is led by a handsome half-elf, who all fight for freedom from a terrible tyrant is somewhat different than what I had in mind. You know, several bloodthirsty gangs of theives, some of who will beat you death for the clothes on your back.

So, in the AoM which town does Flotsam now more closely resemble. Mine, or Mary Herbert's?
#4
Granakrs
Jul 31, 2003 6:23:58 Sorry to sound really snide, Terry but why not both?

Seriously, I was thinking that the town can be a bloodthirsty organization of rival gangs who prey upon each other. Some will rob newcomers. Some will stab them in the back. etc. etc.

But when something big came around, like Malys, they set aside their differences, in the shadow of a bigger enemy. The rival gangs will work together to get their tithe to the dragon. The rival gangs will also use every oppurtunity to steal from each other, and often use it in political ways to get their guys in office. There's distrust among folks, but that distrust is set aside temporarily over a larger threat. once the danger is past, they'll go after each other again.

S
P
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L
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Dragon's Bluff Spoiler

In my mind, that was an emergency situation because of the the thieves in the town stole the town's tithe to Malys. That got everyone so terrified they'd get fried that they formed a truce until they can get the thief's daughter to come to flotsam and find a way to get the loot back. It's this same truce that has thieves joining together to make shelters for when Malys destroys the town over and over again.

Who says you can't have a town where the thieves ARE the town council? They're just a bit smarter on how they conduct their business.
#5
cam_banks
Jul 31, 2003 7:42:48
Originally posted by Granakrs
Who says you can't have a town where the thieves ARE the town council? They're just a bit smarter on how they conduct their business.

And since evil always turns on itself, in peacetime all of these gangs who during times of threat see a union of their talents, will faction off again and prey on each other. Marvelous!

Cheers,
Cam
#6
ferratus
Jul 31, 2003 16:16:59 Well see, the thing is that Mary Herbert's Flotsam was that it was empty. It wasn't a raucus rollicking sea port filled with rival gangs. There simply wasn't any rival gangs doing anything. The theives' guild (singular) was a pleasantly nice collection of freedom fighters and kender led by the silver fox.

So what I want to know, is what it says in the AoM. Can I follow a storyline of rival gangs doing all sorts of nasty things, or is it an empty sleepy little town within a larger ruined city whose rollicking days are past it? What is the population?

I need to know whether I need 10 or 20 years of massive immigration in order to make Flotsam where it is supposed to be... or start out in the current timeline?
#7
Granakrs
Aug 01, 2003 1:35:22 Dragon's Bluff Spoilers to come:

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Yes. spoilers.

okay terry. to you there's a crowded flotsam, or a sparcely populated flotsam. There's how you can bring Mary herbert's world and AoM's world together.

Flotsam is a large town. Everything however, is built on the dregs of the blood sea. The town was once a town of constant thieving. The dragonarmy was there, and they robbed the dragonarmy blind. Even lord Toede was an unscuplous ruler and a thief. all was perfect.

Then Malys came and the town gets repeatedly burned down by Malys and her red dragon enforcers. the town of Naer'do'wells didn't take a hint, and they just keep building flotsam again and again. And they remained the town of vile scum and tryanny. But MAlys taught them that the most stupid of thieves could bring the wrath of the dragon down on all of them. There wasn't a crackdown. There wasn't a purge of thieves. The thieve leaders simply became the town council. Now, thieving talents were put keeping the dragon off their backs. The dragons establish a tithe, that the flotsamites had to pay. And they did.

Terry, if you had a town that was tithing to a dragon, how best can you do this. That's money and loot LEAVING the town and never to return. the money has to come from somewhere. Answer: Tourism. The town council got together and said, we need people to come here to town so WE can fleece them and pay the tithe. We need people coming it, so let's keep this town looking like it's a center of trade. Each guild in town will be responsible for gathering money. and the best guild gets more of the political power. and other guild members come up with a plan to hide the town's population each time a dragon attacks.

(Similarities to Flotsam and Las Vegas and the mob are strictly intentional)

This works out. people come in, and they lose their money. Town Council *tsk tsks* for the newbies misfortune and promises PROMISEs from the *bottom* of their heart that they *WILL* crack down on the culprit while waving and smiling politely. Thank you. Come again. Thank you. Come again.

In comes Kethril Tokay. He steals the town's treasury. Crud. Town's gonna burn. So, they go to great lengths to get Kethril's daughter lucy, to come to town hoping in some way to draw out Kethril. Lucy proves to be cool. And they make her their sheriff. All the while, THEY control what she sees. Small town of freedom fighters? OF COURSE. she sees the hive of scum and tyranny, she's going to leave then THEY WILL BE SCREWED *AND* Flambe. They put on a good show. and kethril is found. they discover the dragon collecting the tithe is skimming off the top. The new sheriff does her job. the town is saved. The sherif leaves, and the theiving goes back to normal. Disaster is averted and they have less to pay. it's ALLLL good baby. OH and just incase the Sheriff get's herself burned, we secretly have been evacuating the entire city through our underground tunnels. it's not that we don't TRUST lucy's ability to be a good sheriff, we thieves like to hedge our bets.

Soooooo, terry, my answer to you is this. Yes Flotsam is a bit city of vile rival gangs. Yes it is a town of all sorts of nasty things. *Also* when push comes to shove, and a big dragon wants his money, the rivals can work together. They will make themselves look respectable, kind-hearted, innocent, and helpless for the easy mark. Lucy was the the easiest mark the town ever had. Flotsam is full of evil, and flotsam can look respectable when the occasion arose, and it arose big time.

Granak Red-Silver
#8
talinthas
Aug 01, 2003 1:54:28 as a side note, dragon's bluff has one of the ugliest dragonlance cover's ever.

and was a lame book.
#9
ferratus
Aug 01, 2003 1:58:29 That's pretty good. A bit of a stretch into goofiness for me, but I enjoyed it immensely. It certainly fits Flotsam. I myself am going to be spinning a far darker tale though.

Flotsam doesn't have any problems that a few people coming off the boat broke can't fix. The town is destroyed, but people will live anywhere if they have nowhere else to live. Thus, shanty towns, tenements and slums will feature prominently in this hastily rebuilt city. Since they are just refugees with no money, they quickly turn to preying on each other.

Oh, are the elves wandering around the Plains of Dust, or can they be found other places?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ferratus Jul 29, 2003 3:51:38	Hey, I'm really interested in Flotsam. Can somebody type up the description of the city in the DLCS and/or Age of Mortals? Is it still that empty place that Mary Herbert described filled with noble heroic resistance? Or is it the petty evil, greedy evil, and such that Lord Toede described? Is it the collection of scum from the Blood Sea again?
#2 Granakrs Jul 29, 2003 4:49:17	Originally posted by ferratus Hey, I'm really interested in Flotsam. Can somebody type up the description of the city in the DLCS and/or Age of Mortals? Is it still that empty place that Mary Herbert described filled with noble heroic resistance? Or is it the petty evil, greedy evil, and such that Lord Toede described? Is it the collection of scum from the Blood Sea again? Why can't they be all of the above? Granak Red-Silver Sivak
#3 ferratus Jul 31, 2003 5:46:50	Because... a town where there is only one Theives' Guild, which is part of the town council and is led by a handsome half-elf, who all fight for freedom from a terrible tyrant is somewhat different than what I had in mind. You know, several bloodthirsty gangs of theives, some of who will beat you death for the clothes on your back. So, in the AoM which town does Flotsam now more closely resemble. Mine, or Mary Herbert's?
#4 Granakrs Jul 31, 2003 6:23:58	Sorry to sound really snide, Terry but why not both? Seriously, I was thinking that the town can be a bloodthirsty organization of rival gangs who prey upon each other. Some will rob newcomers. Some will stab them in the back. etc. etc. But when something big came around, like Malys, they set aside their differences, in the shadow of a bigger enemy. The rival gangs will work together to get their tithe to the dragon. The rival gangs will also use every oppurtunity to steal from each other, and often use it in political ways to get their guys in office. There's distrust among folks, but that distrust is set aside temporarily over a larger threat. once the danger is past, they'll go after each other again. S P O I L R S Dragon's Bluff Spoiler In my mind, that was an emergency situation because of the the thieves in the town stole the town's tithe to Malys. That got everyone so terrified they'd get fried that they formed a truce until they can get the thief's daughter to come to flotsam and find a way to get the loot back. It's this same truce that has thieves joining together to make shelters for when Malys destroys the town over and over again. Who says you can't have a town where the thieves ARE the town council? They're just a bit smarter on how they conduct their business.
#5 cam_banks Jul 31, 2003 7:42:48	Originally posted by Granakrs Who says you can't have a town where the thieves ARE the town council? They're just a bit smarter on how they conduct their business. And since evil always turns on itself, in peacetime all of these gangs who during times of threat see a union of their talents, will faction off again and prey on each other. Marvelous! Cheers, Cam
#6 ferratus Jul 31, 2003 16:16:59	Well see, the thing is that Mary Herbert's Flotsam was that it was empty. It wasn't a raucus rollicking sea port filled with rival gangs. There simply wasn't any rival gangs doing anything. The theives' guild (singular) was a pleasantly nice collection of freedom fighters and kender led by the silver fox. So what I want to know, is what it says in the AoM. Can I follow a storyline of rival gangs doing all sorts of nasty things, or is it an empty sleepy little town within a larger ruined city whose rollicking days are past it? What is the population? I need to know whether I need 10 or 20 years of massive immigration in order to make Flotsam where it is supposed to be... or start out in the current timeline?
#7 Granakrs Aug 01, 2003 1:35:22	Dragon's Bluff Spoilers to come: S P O I L E R S Yes. spoilers. okay terry. to you there's a crowded flotsam, or a sparcely populated flotsam. There's how you can bring Mary herbert's world and AoM's world together. Flotsam is a large town. Everything however, is built on the dregs of the blood sea. The town was once a town of constant thieving. The dragonarmy was there, and they robbed the dragonarmy blind. Even lord Toede was an unscuplous ruler and a thief. all was perfect. Then Malys came and the town gets repeatedly burned down by Malys and her red dragon enforcers. the town of Naer'do'wells didn't take a hint, and they just keep building flotsam again and again. And they remained the town of vile scum and tryanny. But MAlys taught them that the most stupid of thieves could bring the wrath of the dragon down on all of them. There wasn't a crackdown. There wasn't a purge of thieves. The thieve leaders simply became the town council. Now, thieving talents were put keeping the dragon off their backs. The dragons establish a tithe, that the flotsamites had to pay. And they did. Terry, if you had a town that was tithing to a dragon, how best can you do this. That's money and loot LEAVING the town and never to return. the money has to come from somewhere. Answer: Tourism. The town council got together and said, we need people to come here to town so WE can fleece them and pay the tithe. We need people coming it, so let's keep this town looking like it's a center of trade. Each guild in town will be responsible for gathering money. and the best guild gets more of the political power. and other guild members come up with a plan to hide the town's population each time a dragon attacks. (Similarities to Flotsam and Las Vegas and the mob are strictly intentional) This works out. people come in, and they lose their money. Town Council tsk tsks for the newbies misfortune and promises PROMISEs from the bottom of their heart that they WILL crack down on the culprit while waving and smiling politely. Thank you. Come again. Thank you. Come again. In comes Kethril Tokay. He steals the town's treasury. Crud. Town's gonna burn. So, they go to great lengths to get Kethril's daughter lucy, to come to town hoping in some way to draw out Kethril. Lucy proves to be cool. And they make her their sheriff. All the while, THEY control what she sees. Small town of freedom fighters? OF COURSE. she sees the hive of scum and tyranny, she's going to leave then THEY WILL BE SCREWED AND Flambe. They put on a good show. and kethril is found. they discover the dragon collecting the tithe is skimming off the top. The new sheriff does her job. the town is saved. The sherif leaves, and the theiving goes back to normal. Disaster is averted and they have less to pay. it's ALLLL good baby. OH and just incase the Sheriff get's herself burned, we secretly have been evacuating the entire city through our underground tunnels. it's not that we don't TRUST lucy's ability to be a good sheriff, we thieves like to hedge our bets. Soooooo, terry, my answer to you is this. Yes Flotsam is a bit city of vile rival gangs. Yes it is a town of all sorts of nasty things. Also when push comes to shove, and a big dragon wants his money, the rivals can work together. They will make themselves look respectable, kind-hearted, innocent, and helpless for the easy mark. Lucy was the the easiest mark the town ever had. Flotsam is full of evil, and flotsam can look respectable when the occasion arose, and it arose big time. Granak Red-Silver
#8 talinthas Aug 01, 2003 1:54:28	as a side note, dragon's bluff has one of the ugliest dragonlance cover's ever. and was a lame book.
#9 ferratus Aug 01, 2003 1:58:29	That's pretty good. A bit of a stretch into goofiness for me, but I enjoyed it immensely. It certainly fits Flotsam. I myself am going to be spinning a far darker tale though. Flotsam doesn't have any problems that a few people coming off the boat broke can't fix. The town is destroyed, but people will live anywhere if they have nowhere else to live. Thus, shanty towns, tenements and slums will feature prominently in this hastily rebuilt city. Since they are just refugees with no money, they quickly turn to preying on each other. Oh, are the elves wandering around the Plains of Dust, or can they be found other places?