Anyway, now that, in 3.5, Weapon Finess is a one-time selectable Feat (it applies to all light weapons, not a single weapon of choice), why not to substitute it with Weapon Specialization in the list of Gladiator's Bonus Feats? Effectively, in that list there are only single-weapon-bonus type feats, and imho the Gladiator is qualified for acquiring Weapon Specialization, but only through Master of Weapons class feature.
My 2 cents
What does anybody think of the gladiator now that 3.5 as happened? If you take a look at the Brute (barbarian) and all others classes, do you think the gladiator is a bit disavantaged?
What's your comments?
Originally posted by Grummore
A simple question, while using guyser thread
What does anybody think of the gladiator now that 3.5 as happened? If you take a look at the Brute (barbarian) and all others classes, do you think the gladiator is a bit disavantaged?
What's your comments?
The way I see it (as I've told Nyt many times ;)) is that in 3.0 there was no real reason to take levels in gladiator, as there was nothing that he could do that a fighter couldn't do better, and in more situations.
Now that 3.5 has brought us an improved barbarian and ranger, there's even less reasons to actually play a gladiator.
Anyway, wasn't the gladiator supposed to be the master of weapons? That was the "core" of the class IMHO, but now a fighter can certainly have more exotc weapon proficiences than the gladiator at any given level.
Why don't you throw in the mix some exotic weapon proficiences at 1st level? Just like the Bard and Rogue get a couple of martial weapons, the gladiator could get ... let's say one proficience in a tiny, small, medium and large exotic weapon. Then, after that, he chould get more exotic weapon proficiences.
Also, abilities like the Monk's Unarmed Fighting and Improved Grappling come to mind. You don't even need to give him an unarmed damage progression or flurry of blows, but please, having the "ability" to deal 1d3 damage with your fists is quite pathetic in my book.
I would expect a gladiator to be able to fight anytime with any weapon available.
Skills like heal also come to my mind as a good choice for the gladiator.
Bottom line, the gladiator offers nothing interesting on its own. That needs to be changed for him to be a character "core" class. If not, you take the gladiator out of an arena and a Warrior (NPC) would be about as effective at him, and such a narrow usefullness seems a lot more like a PrC than a "core" class to me.
Just my lime slice ;)
Edo.
It is way to powerful to give the gladiator access to all exotic weapons for free. Many exotic weapons are better than the corresponding martial weapons and are somewhat balanced by the need to use a feat in order to get proficiency. Eg. is the bastard sword simply a better version of the longsword.
Remember also that the gladiator has d12 hit dice, which is a huge difference.
A general comment:
The fighter is a core DnD class meant to be a pure combat class. There is no way, it is balanced to have another class being better and as versatile as the fighter. Compare to the comments in DM about the Barbarian class. However, I agree with the fact that a fighter is generally able to do the same as a gladiator. And this leads to the logical conclusion: in my opinion there is simply no use for the gladiator class.
In 2e classes (and esp. fighters) didn't have many customization choices. If you wanted a class to do something even a little bit different, you basically needed to create a new class - and this, I think - was the reason for the introduction of the gladiator. This has been remedied by 3e - if Dark Sun was created under 3e rules they wouldn't have made up a special class for this. Gladioators are simply fighters who have chosen to specialize (feat wise) in certain weapons and attack options. Perhaps a prestige class could be introduced to the really powerful and well-known gladiators, but most are simply fighters.
Unfortunately, I don't think this point of view will be accepted.
I also agree to make the Gladiator a Prestige Class, as nobody gets born as one with the exception of the Mul. Therefore the Mul should be the only race that is allowed to take Gladiator at first level.
To power up the gladiatorial fighting style, give the prestige class the Master of Weapon classskill once every two levels starting with level 1. Also create a weapon specialisation tree (like the ranger in 3.5) that gives a gladiator to opportunity to advance in a specific fighting style (e.g. trident + net) or with a specific weapon. The old Combat & Tactics book has lots of examples for this.
In terms of building an out and out melee machine the fighter should come out on top. The gladiator should be able to pick up just about anything and fight with it. This is going to be the essential difference between the two classes. In optimum conditions the fighter is going to come out and top and have more options. The gladiator should be able to look competent in any situation, when the fighter is going "this isn't armour, this isn't a weapon".
Okay, then an idea would be to create some feats based on this that have some gladiator class skills as the prereqs, or that the gladiator can opt to take as part of his master of weapons ability (in fact, one could easily say that master of weapons is a prereq for the feats, requiring a typical fighter to take at least 4 levels of gladiator in order to purchase).
Pole arm + net (as you listed)
Tripping weapons (Athasian versions of the kusi gama, whips, calhulak and such)
Pole arms (or other lengthy reach weapons)
Close Quarter Combat (daggers, small close weapons)
Disarming
Mounted Fighting (on a beast, or on a chariot)
Paired Fighting (bonuses when fighting in teams)
Note that gladiators receive very specific and specialized training. The feat lists for gladiators should definately not include weapons such as bows and other two part missile weapons.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
I should probably point out that the Gladiator will most likely undergo some changes. I cannot reveal what changes.
Ohh, we are being a bit secretive here, aren't we? :D
Anyway the main point of the suggestions is to have Gladiator as a prestige class instead of a core class. After that we can discuss what abilities the class has. With the proper setting of requirements (like the Sword&Fist Gladiator PrC) it can be made readily available as being a real gladiator means a special combat training, so it can be a fairly common PrC. But a PrC nevertheless...