Taladas mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Taladas mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 05, 2003 9:20:21 If I recall correctly ( I haven't been able to track down my copy of the Time of the Dragon boxed set for a while ), the White, Red, and Black Robe orders do not have a prescence on the continent of Taladas, and mages there function for all intents and purposes as if they were renegade wizards ( ie they draw upon the power of all 3 moons - although each individual wizards has one moon which exerts a particular influence over their spellcasting). What I'm looking for is some advice on how to handle potential meetings between Taladan mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery. For example, say that a merchant vessel arrives in a port such as Kalaman, Palanthas or Flotsam after voyaging from Taladas, and the captain happens to be a wizard ( and makes no attempt to disguise the fact). Is he liable to mugged by Dalamar's goons and dragged before the Conclave to be stripped of his powers, or would he be more likely to encounter friendly greetings and solicitations from local members of the Robed Orders, eager to gain a new recruit? I suppose this question applies to all magically talented visitors from foreign lands : is it a case of "Join immediately or forfeit your power! ", or "Come to one of our friendly meetings and experience the many benefits of membership "?

I'd appreciate people's thoughts on this matter - it seems fairly important since at some stage I would expect either the Dragonlance novels or game material to begin addressing Ansalon's interaction with Krynn's other continents, and it would make sense to articulate the views of Wizards of High Sorcery on their overseas "renegade" brethren. ( One other thing I've always wondered about - how would the White Robes of Ansalon react to Irda and Mischta wizards? They magic they wield is obviously good in nature, and they revere Solinari along with the other gods of light, but somehow I can't see a proud high ogre willingly joining an order of mere humans and elves! Would any White Robes encountering such a wizard be inclined to look the other way, or to strictly enforce the laws regarding renegades? )
#2
Dragonhelm
Aug 05, 2003 9:26:11 There is mention in Dragonlance Adventures about wizards who come from other worlds who encounter the WoHS. The basic gist is that, if they are high enough level, they must take the Test of High Sorcery or become a renegade, like other wizards on Krynn.

The challenge is if a WoHS somehow makes it to Taladas. ;)
#3
Granakrs
Aug 05, 2003 12:55:39
Originally posted by Twilight Herald
What I'm looking for is some advice on how to handle potential meetings between Taladan mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery. For example, say that a merchant vessel arrives in a port such as Kalaman, Palanthas or Flotsam after voyaging from Taladas, and the captain happens to be a wizard ( and makes no attempt to disguise the fact). Is he liable to mugged by Dalamar's goons and dragged before the Conclave to be stripped of his powers, or would he be more likely to encounter friendly greetings and solicitations from local members of the Robed Orders, eager to gain a new recruit? I suppose this question applies to all magically talented visitors from foreign lands : is it a case of "Join immediately or forfeit your power! ", or "Come to one of our friendly meetings and experience the many benefits of membership "?

Well, it's very complicated because the Taladan wizard who has favor from a moon god has favor with the same moon god of a WoHS. As dragonhelm mentioned, you could have the Taladan mage arriving on Ansalon to be captured and forced to take the test by black or red robes. I think white robes and red robes would be upselling the benefits of membership, such as magic items, spell research etc. If one pays attention to the DLA moon chart and the TotD moon chart, Wizards in ansalon get more days of high and low sanction. An Ansalonian wizard might upsell the larger number of days.

( One other thing I've always wondered about - how would the White Robes of Ansalon react to Irda and Mischta wizards? They magic they wield is obviously good in nature, and they revere Solinari along with the other gods of light, but somehow I can't see a proud high ogre willingly joining an order of mere humans and elves! Would any White Robes encountering such a wizard be inclined to look the other way, or to strictly enforce the laws regarding renegades? )

I've thought the same things about draconians, particularly Aurak and Bozak. They're natural sorcerors. Well, ask yourself, why are the WoHS doing what they do? The Test is supposed to weed out the weak. The Test is suppose to teach the test-taker about his own morality. The Test is suppose to help the conclave determine if the test-taker will be a danger to the organization (including causing enough destruction on the populous to make them turn against wizards). If the conclave believed that the Irda and Mischta are a threat, I think they'd make them take a test or hunt them down.

A perfect example would be Dragons of Summer Flame. Note how Jenna observed Usha, who she initially believed was an Irda/Half-irda/Raistlin's Daughter. Jenna took her to Dalamar, where i'm sure Usha might have been forced to take the Test.
#4
stunspore
Aug 06, 2003 19:36:40 Taladas is one big continent, just like Ansalon. If one was to say that the population of wizards is roughly similar to each other, then none of them have a particular superior advantage, about from home ground advantage.

The main purpose of WOHS is to ensure magic's survival by making sure that those who use it don't make big magical disasters, or give it a bad reputation to the general public, as it will incur the public's wrath. In the case of black robes, this is balanced by the actions of the other two orders.

As long as the Taladian mages refrain from interrupting WOHS's policies, then the most likely scenario is to make some sort of 'diplomatic' deal, with some code of conduct that they both will agree upon when they are in each other's territory.
#5
ferratus
Aug 06, 2003 19:45:12 We are overlooking something. It could be possible that the WoHS do not know that Taladas exists. We are all used to the idea that the WoHS are omnipotent and omniscent, but I think that's something that has to end. They are a powerful kingdom of magic, but they do not control the world.

Taladas is on the opposite side of the world. Even with Teleport spells, it would be impossible to go there unless you knew where you were going. Ironically, given D&D magic, it is easier to go to the Dome of Creation and the Abyss than to get to Taladas.
#6
zombiegleemax
Aug 06, 2003 20:59:55 I think we've read to many hints to other parts of the world by Dalamar and Raistlin, two WOHS members, to not believe they know about the rest of the world of Krynn.
#7
ferratus
Aug 06, 2003 21:03:28 Oh, I'm sure they know there are other realms across the ocean. However, they do not know necessarily what is there. It isn't like there is commerce between the two landmasses. In fact, they might be far more likely to know about the continent the sea people of Ergoth originated from than about Taladas. Perhaps that's what Raistlin and Dalamar were refering to in Legends.

The only Ansalon character who seems to know anything about Taladas was Ariakan. For an explaination of why he knew, check out James O'Rance's articles on the Nexus.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 06, 2003 21:15:26 What such quotes do you mean? I don't really remember any...

BUT that point is kind of mute in relation to the question. He was asking how the Conclave would react to someone arriving on Ansalon from Taladas. I think they would treat the Mage as a Renegade, at least at first. If the person had no chance to explain themselves properly I can easily see him mistaken for a Renegade, this could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the Mage who has sighted him. A Black or overzealous Red Mage may just blast him. A White Mage (Or someone who he has managed to convince that he is actually from somewhere that is not Ansalon [Note: Some people may take advantage of the Mage and not take him before the Conclave, even if he does explain himself satisfactorily]) would bring him in to the Conclave where he could properly explain himself.

Then the Conclave would decide. If the Mages know of Taladas then they might allow him to return to his home without bothering with the Test, even offering him transportation items, for a fee. Conversely, if the Mages know nothing of Taladas, or if the Taladasian Mage wishes to remain in Ansalon other measures would have to be taken. In the case of the former, a special Conclave would be held to discuss the possibilities of this new continent (and what to do with the Mage); if the latter, the Mage would definitely be asked to take the Test or commanded to cease his magic use. Of course, he probably would have a hard time with this and not like being forced to have someone control his magic, especially someone who does not have his same connection to one of the Gods of magic. Unless he can eloquently sway the Conclave to his plight, trapped in a far off land and fully adept at utilizing his magical powers, he most likely will be tagged a Renegade.
#9
zombiegleemax
Aug 06, 2003 22:03:17
In fact, they might be far more likely to know about the continent the sea people of Ergoth originated from than about Taladas.

I wasn't aware that the Ergothian sea people were immigrants to Ansalon. Where is this described? I've always enjoyed scraps of information about Krynn's other continents. ( It seems that scraps are all we usually get - although I'm hoping against hope that the published material for the new DLCS will focus on the World of Krynn , not merely Ansalon !)
#10
ferratus
Aug 06, 2003 22:38:45 Hints of the origins of Ergothian Mariners are found in Paul B. Thompsons and Tonya Cook's trilogy "The Barbarians" and in the novel "A Warrior's Journey." I'm not sure if it is in the DLCS or not. I'm guessing it isn't.

As for the interaction, I'm going have to say that the Angel has hit the nail on the head. A wizard of Taladas would be invited to take the test, or be a branded a renegade.

The only real question would be what the WoHS would do when they discovered that there is a whole continent of uncontrolled wizards across the sea. It would be a great way to introduce Taladas to your campaign, as a PC would be sent to establish the WoHS on the other continent.

Of course, I think the WoHS have more immediate problems than to worry about the Taladan mages at present.
#11
zombiegleemax
Aug 06, 2003 22:50:05 I think the entire Conclave would have to come to some kind of drastic course of action if they learned of the Taladan mages. They are not a Clerical order. One cannot gain "Followers" of the WoHS. In a land where magic is self-controlled and un-bothered by layers of beauracracy the thought of establishing the WoHS in Taladas would be nearly impossible. the only reason it exists is because of the problem with Magecraft in the past, without a problem in Taladas they have no reason to adopt the Conclave to their arcane practices.

For this reason the Conclave would have to devote themselves to a campaign of conquest on the continent of Taladas. An extended military campaign seems like the only option for "converting" the mages of Taladas. I don't think the Three Gods would advise such a course, and it is obviously a dangerous and costly waste of resources, but perhaps the Ruler of the Conclave has a lust for power that cannot be quenched. A mage war of such a magnitude would result in massive death tolls and arcane damage upon the world of Krynn. Its a frightening prospect.

But the wizards would have two options, how I see it...

- Ignore the Continent of Taladas. Let them rule magic in the way they have for centuries - This option would make Renegades and "Free Spirits" indignant, wanting to know why some can practice magic their way, but they cannot.

-Launching a campaign on the Continent of Taladas - This option would result in lots of death, lots of damage to the world, probably **** off the three gods who have no problem with the Taladas mages who use the magic.
#12
ferratus
Aug 06, 2003 23:01:33
Originally posted by L33t Angel

For this reason the Conclave would have to devote themselves to a campaign of conquest on the continent of Taladas. An extended military campaign seems like the only option for "converting" the mages of Taladas.

I rather disagree here. I think there is plenty of carrot in such an organization as the Wizards of High Sorcery to go along with the stick. A breif rundown of the benefits are:

- A mentorship program
- free magical items
- access to magical lore
- social contacts with other mages of power
- a common and united defense against forces hostile to spellcasters.

As for Taladas, I do beleive that they do not belong to the WoHS, but I don't beleive that they are renegades. See, I think there is more to being a renegade than simply "following the rules". You'll see what I mean when I write up my article on renegade spellcasters. It is taking longer than expected, but it should be finished by the weekend. In fact, I'm going home to finish it right now.
#13
talinthas
Aug 07, 2003 0:07:54 i'd think it would be akin to licencing the visiting taladan mages to use magic on ansalon. IMO, the moons work differently on taladas due to the angle of the sky and such, and the moon charts reflect that. I doubt that the conclave is going to bother with mages so far away, when they have their hands full on ansalon.

It would be like America going to conquer Mongolia to force them to licence their firearms. In the middle of the 18th century.

I doubt its going to happen. Besides, any ansalonian robed mages in taladas are their for research, and probably wouldnt want to mess with the local mages on their home turf. TotD says that these foreign mages are all found in kristophan, and the minotaurs already have a magic controlling organization.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 05, 2003 9:20:21	If I recall correctly ( I haven't been able to track down my copy of the Time of the Dragon boxed set for a while ), the White, Red, and Black Robe orders do not have a prescence on the continent of Taladas, and mages there function for all intents and purposes as if they were renegade wizards ( ie they draw upon the power of all 3 moons - although each individual wizards has one moon which exerts a particular influence over their spellcasting). What I'm looking for is some advice on how to handle potential meetings between Taladan mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery. For example, say that a merchant vessel arrives in a port such as Kalaman, Palanthas or Flotsam after voyaging from Taladas, and the captain happens to be a wizard ( and makes no attempt to disguise the fact). Is he liable to mugged by Dalamar's goons and dragged before the Conclave to be stripped of his powers, or would he be more likely to encounter friendly greetings and solicitations from local members of the Robed Orders, eager to gain a new recruit? I suppose this question applies to all magically talented visitors from foreign lands : is it a case of "Join immediately or forfeit your power! ", or "Come to one of our friendly meetings and experience the many benefits of membership "? I'd appreciate people's thoughts on this matter - it seems fairly important since at some stage I would expect either the Dragonlance novels or game material to begin addressing Ansalon's interaction with Krynn's other continents, and it would make sense to articulate the views of Wizards of High Sorcery on their overseas "renegade" brethren. ( One other thing I've always wondered about - how would the White Robes of Ansalon react to Irda and Mischta wizards? They magic they wield is obviously good in nature, and they revere Solinari along with the other gods of light, but somehow I can't see a proud high ogre willingly joining an order of mere humans and elves! Would any White Robes encountering such a wizard be inclined to look the other way, or to strictly enforce the laws regarding renegades? )
#2 Dragonhelm Aug 05, 2003 9:26:11	There is mention in Dragonlance Adventures about wizards who come from other worlds who encounter the WoHS. The basic gist is that, if they are high enough level, they must take the Test of High Sorcery or become a renegade, like other wizards on Krynn. The challenge is if a WoHS somehow makes it to Taladas. ;)
#3 Granakrs Aug 05, 2003 12:55:39	Originally posted by Twilight Herald What I'm looking for is some advice on how to handle potential meetings between Taladan mages and the Wizards of High Sorcery. For example, say that a merchant vessel arrives in a port such as Kalaman, Palanthas or Flotsam after voyaging from Taladas, and the captain happens to be a wizard ( and makes no attempt to disguise the fact). Is he liable to mugged by Dalamar's goons and dragged before the Conclave to be stripped of his powers, or would he be more likely to encounter friendly greetings and solicitations from local members of the Robed Orders, eager to gain a new recruit? I suppose this question applies to all magically talented visitors from foreign lands : is it a case of "Join immediately or forfeit your power! ", or "Come to one of our friendly meetings and experience the many benefits of membership "? Well, it's very complicated because the Taladan wizard who has favor from a moon god has favor with the same moon god of a WoHS. As dragonhelm mentioned, you could have the Taladan mage arriving on Ansalon to be captured and forced to take the test by black or red robes. I think white robes and red robes would be upselling the benefits of membership, such as magic items, spell research etc. If one pays attention to the DLA moon chart and the TotD moon chart, Wizards in ansalon get more days of high and low sanction. An Ansalonian wizard might upsell the larger number of days. ( One other thing I've always wondered about - how would the White Robes of Ansalon react to Irda and Mischta wizards? They magic they wield is obviously good in nature, and they revere Solinari along with the other gods of light, but somehow I can't see a proud high ogre willingly joining an order of mere humans and elves! Would any White Robes encountering such a wizard be inclined to look the other way, or to strictly enforce the laws regarding renegades? ) I've thought the same things about draconians, particularly Aurak and Bozak. They're natural sorcerors. Well, ask yourself, why are the WoHS doing what they do? The Test is supposed to weed out the weak. The Test is suppose to teach the test-taker about his own morality. The Test is suppose to help the conclave determine if the test-taker will be a danger to the organization (including causing enough destruction on the populous to make them turn against wizards). If the conclave believed that the Irda and Mischta are a threat, I think they'd make them take a test or hunt them down. A perfect example would be Dragons of Summer Flame. Note how Jenna observed Usha, who she initially believed was an Irda/Half-irda/Raistlin's Daughter. Jenna took her to Dalamar, where i'm sure Usha might have been forced to take the Test.
#4 stunspore Aug 06, 2003 19:36:40	Taladas is one big continent, just like Ansalon. If one was to say that the population of wizards is roughly similar to each other, then none of them have a particular superior advantage, about from home ground advantage. The main purpose of WOHS is to ensure magic's survival by making sure that those who use it don't make big magical disasters, or give it a bad reputation to the general public, as it will incur the public's wrath. In the case of black robes, this is balanced by the actions of the other two orders. As long as the Taladian mages refrain from interrupting WOHS's policies, then the most likely scenario is to make some sort of 'diplomatic' deal, with some code of conduct that they both will agree upon when they are in each other's territory.
#5 ferratus Aug 06, 2003 19:45:12	We are overlooking something. It could be possible that the WoHS do not know that Taladas exists. We are all used to the idea that the WoHS are omnipotent and omniscent, but I think that's something that has to end. They are a powerful kingdom of magic, but they do not control the world. Taladas is on the opposite side of the world. Even with Teleport spells, it would be impossible to go there unless you knew where you were going. Ironically, given D&D magic, it is easier to go to the Dome of Creation and the Abyss than to get to Taladas.
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 20:59:55	I think we've read to many hints to other parts of the world by Dalamar and Raistlin, two WOHS members, to not believe they know about the rest of the world of Krynn.
#7 ferratus Aug 06, 2003 21:03:28	Oh, I'm sure they know there are other realms across the ocean. However, they do not know necessarily what is there. It isn't like there is commerce between the two landmasses. In fact, they might be far more likely to know about the continent the sea people of Ergoth originated from than about Taladas. Perhaps that's what Raistlin and Dalamar were refering to in Legends. The only Ansalon character who seems to know anything about Taladas was Ariakan. For an explaination of why he knew, check out James O'Rance's articles on the Nexus.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 21:15:26	What such quotes do you mean? I don't really remember any... BUT that point is kind of mute in relation to the question. He was asking how the Conclave would react to someone arriving on Ansalon from Taladas. I think they would treat the Mage as a Renegade, at least at first. If the person had no chance to explain themselves properly I can easily see him mistaken for a Renegade, this could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the Mage who has sighted him. A Black or overzealous Red Mage may just blast him. A White Mage (Or someone who he has managed to convince that he is actually from somewhere that is not Ansalon [Note: Some people may take advantage of the Mage and not take him before the Conclave, even if he does explain himself satisfactorily]) would bring him in to the Conclave where he could properly explain himself. Then the Conclave would decide. If the Mages know of Taladas then they might allow him to return to his home without bothering with the Test, even offering him transportation items, for a fee. Conversely, if the Mages know nothing of Taladas, or if the Taladasian Mage wishes to remain in Ansalon other measures would have to be taken. In the case of the former, a special Conclave would be held to discuss the possibilities of this new continent (and what to do with the Mage); if the latter, the Mage would definitely be asked to take the Test or commanded to cease his magic use. Of course, he probably would have a hard time with this and not like being forced to have someone control his magic, especially someone who does not have his same connection to one of the Gods of magic. Unless he can eloquently sway the Conclave to his plight, trapped in a far off land and fully adept at utilizing his magical powers, he most likely will be tagged a Renegade.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 22:03:17	In fact, they might be far more likely to know about the continent the sea people of Ergoth originated from than about Taladas. I wasn't aware that the Ergothian sea people were immigrants to Ansalon. Where is this described? I've always enjoyed scraps of information about Krynn's other continents. ( It seems that scraps are all we usually get - although I'm hoping against hope that the published material for the new DLCS will focus on the World of Krynn , not merely Ansalon !)
#10 ferratus Aug 06, 2003 22:38:45	Hints of the origins of Ergothian Mariners are found in Paul B. Thompsons and Tonya Cook's trilogy "The Barbarians" and in the novel "A Warrior's Journey." I'm not sure if it is in the DLCS or not. I'm guessing it isn't. As for the interaction, I'm going have to say that the Angel has hit the nail on the head. A wizard of Taladas would be invited to take the test, or be a branded a renegade. The only real question would be what the WoHS would do when they discovered that there is a whole continent of uncontrolled wizards across the sea. It would be a great way to introduce Taladas to your campaign, as a PC would be sent to establish the WoHS on the other continent. Of course, I think the WoHS have more immediate problems than to worry about the Taladan mages at present.
#11 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 22:50:05	I think the entire Conclave would have to come to some kind of drastic course of action if they learned of the Taladan mages. They are not a Clerical order. One cannot gain "Followers" of the WoHS. In a land where magic is self-controlled and un-bothered by layers of beauracracy the thought of establishing the WoHS in Taladas would be nearly impossible. the only reason it exists is because of the problem with Magecraft in the past, without a problem in Taladas they have no reason to adopt the Conclave to their arcane practices. For this reason the Conclave would have to devote themselves to a campaign of conquest on the continent of Taladas. An extended military campaign seems like the only option for "converting" the mages of Taladas. I don't think the Three Gods would advise such a course, and it is obviously a dangerous and costly waste of resources, but perhaps the Ruler of the Conclave has a lust for power that cannot be quenched. A mage war of such a magnitude would result in massive death tolls and arcane damage upon the world of Krynn. Its a frightening prospect. But the wizards would have two options, how I see it... - Ignore the Continent of Taladas. Let them rule magic in the way they have for centuries - This option would make Renegades and "Free Spirits" indignant, wanting to know why some can practice magic their way, but they cannot. -Launching a campaign on the Continent of Taladas - This option would result in lots of death, lots of damage to the world, probably **** off the three gods who have no problem with the Taladas mages who use the magic.
#12 ferratus Aug 06, 2003 23:01:33	Originally posted by L33t Angel For this reason the Conclave would have to devote themselves to a campaign of conquest on the continent of Taladas. An extended military campaign seems like the only option for "converting" the mages of Taladas. I rather disagree here. I think there is plenty of carrot in such an organization as the Wizards of High Sorcery to go along with the stick. A breif rundown of the benefits are: - A mentorship program - free magical items - access to magical lore - social contacts with other mages of power - a common and united defense against forces hostile to spellcasters. As for Taladas, I do beleive that they do not belong to the WoHS, but I don't beleive that they are renegades. See, I think there is more to being a renegade than simply "following the rules". You'll see what I mean when I write up my article on renegade spellcasters. It is taking longer than expected, but it should be finished by the weekend. In fact, I'm going home to finish it right now.
#13 talinthas Aug 07, 2003 0:07:54	i'd think it would be akin to licencing the visiting taladan mages to use magic on ansalon. IMO, the moons work differently on taladas due to the angle of the sky and such, and the moon charts reflect that. I doubt that the conclave is going to bother with mages so far away, when they have their hands full on ansalon. It would be like America going to conquer Mongolia to force them to licence their firearms. In the middle of the 18th century. I doubt its going to happen. Besides, any ansalonian robed mages in taladas are their for research, and probably wouldnt want to mess with the local mages on their home turf. TotD says that these foreign mages are all found in kristophan, and the minotaurs already have a magic controlling organization.