Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 17:54:41	I always wondered why paladins weren't part of the Dragonlance setting. It seems to be they would have fit in well with the rediscovering the gods in the Fourth age setting. Am I remembering right in that the sword which Laurana (and Marshall Medan) used in Qualinost against Beryl a posession of an elven Paladin? I just have a character who was looking at playing a Minotaur Paladin of Kiri-Jolith (one of the decendents of Kaz). I guess it also means that you can only play a human (or half-elf) knight of solamnia. Seems a shame to limit such a class to one race but I guess I'll have to wait until the DLCS is released in Australia... Arandur, Lackey of the Past and Present
#2 shugi Aug 06, 2003 18:07:48	IMO, Knights of Solamnia have always been a more "real" ideal of paladinhood than the generic paladin class. You can play a paladin in DL, but it's considered "non-standard". Of course, I'm also one of "those people" who thinks the paladin should have been a prestige class. The Solamnic Knighthood isn't strictly limited to humans and half-elves unless you, as the DM, want it to be. The DLCS allows the creation of "non-standard" knights. If you want one, go for it!
#3 Dragonhelm Aug 06, 2003 21:14:34	I think the paladin hasn't been "standard" in DL for a couple of reasons. First, their role is represented by the Knights of Solamnia. This would be the same in an Oriental setting, where the samurai would take the role of the paladin. Secondly, the paladin would be a divine champion for a limited number of gods in DL. I could see the paladin being a champion of Paladine, Kiri-Jolith, or Habbakuk (the knightly gods). I would like to see a set of divine champions created for each of the gods, specialized for the portfolios of the gods. There have been some instances of paladins in DL, although they are limited. Austan Gavynus is a minotaur paladin in Taladas. Also, there is a barbarian paladin (Kimil?) from Unsung Heroes.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2003 21:29:57	The way I'm going to handle paladins in my DL game is by having a special class I'm going to call the aspirant. It will essentially be the same as a paladin, i.e, same HD, BAB< saves, and skills, but no special powers. THen eventually, after they prove themselves to an appropriate god, and uphold the code, I will convert each level to paladin. THat way they can earn the right to become one, not have to multiclass and then can become 20th level paladins without multiclasssing.
#5 ferratus Aug 06, 2003 21:38:18	Repeat post from another thread: It is extremely easy to fit paladins into dragonlance. If you want to play a paladin simply make the paladin a chosen of a good aligned diety. He is directly inspired holy warrior, rather than belonging to an institution (such as the clerics or Knights of Solamnia). A knight errant, travelling from place to place fighting evil along with his adventuring companions. If your DM seems a little hesitant, remind him that such a character would require no work on his part to include (as you do not require superior officers, military bases, or a niche in the society... as the Knights of Solamnia certainly do). It also is much more flexible character than a Knight of Solamnia or a Legionaire of Steel in terms of plot hooks and story seeds. Likely dieties to have a paladin as his chosen holy warrior are Kiri-Jolith, Mishakal, Habbakuk, and Solinari. In previous ages, Paladine also qualifies. Solinari is not as bizarre a choice as you might think. Multi-class him with a wizard, and you have the perfect renegade hunter and champion against the black robes. If the divine spells are a problem, simply use arcane spells in the Paladin spell list instead. True Strike would be especially handy.
#6 cam_banks Aug 06, 2003 22:56:52	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I think the paladin hasn't been "standard" in DL for a couple of reasons. I'm not sure why folks have this notion that the paladin hasn't been standard in Dragonlance up until now. They're one of the allowed classes described in Dragonlance Adventures p 11, and then again on p 117. In fact, they're included when the monk, bard and assassin are not. In 2nd edition, they're included in the list of allowable classes yet again, on p 80-81 of the World Book of Ansalon in the Tales of the Lance boxed set. Humans, Silvanesti elves and Irda are all given the option to play one. In each case they're clearly described as being holy warriors who are not associated with the Knighthood but are instead in service to one of the Gods of Good. So, if you'd like to have paladins in your Dragonlance campaign, the setting isn't going to break or kick up a fuss about it. The Knighthood remains the premier organisation for Good, but a handful of paladins shouldn't be a problem. Cheers, Cam
#7 Dragonhelm Aug 06, 2003 23:58:57	Originally posted by Cam Banks I'm not sure why folks have this notion that the paladin hasn't been standard in Dragonlance up until now. I'm not either, to be honest. While I presented the "non-standard" POV, I'm a big supporter of paladins in DL. I think a lot of it falls onto the role of the KoS, especially since Tales of the Lance says that Sword Knights get paladin abilities. In each case they're clearly described as being holy warriors who are not associated with the Knighthood but are instead in service to one of the Gods of Good. I can see Paladins as being separate from the KoS, or a part of them (depending on the god worshipped). Either way can present neat role-playing opportunities. So, if you'd like to have paladins in your Dragonlance campaign, the setting isn't going to break or kick up a fuss about it. The Knighthood remains the premier organisation for Good, but a handful of paladins shouldn't be a problem. I tend to view paladins in Dragonlance as those one-in-a-million champions of good. They're the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2003 8:31:55	Originally posted by Dragonhelm This would be the same in an Oriental setting, where the samurai would take the role of the paladin. Um, no it wouldn't. The samurai does not fill the niche of paladin whatsoever. Completely different concept. This is off topic however, let's not change the thread.
#9 jonesy Aug 07, 2003 9:14:47	Originally posted by Xeros Um, no it wouldn't. The samurai does not fill the niche of paladin whatsoever. Completely different concept. Well as you can see if you take in the whole context: Originally posted by Dragonhelm First, their role is represented by the Knights of Solamnia. This would be the same in an Oriental setting, where the samurai would take the role of the paladin. Dragonhelm wasn't comparing the paladin to the samurai, but the knight to the samurai. A sound comparison in itself. And as long as we are splitting hairs here, I'd like to point out that 'samurai' was originally a rather wide term containing many different aspects and was mostly synonymous to the simple term 'warrior'.
#10 Dragonhelm Aug 07, 2003 9:18:05	Edit: Double-post.
#11 Dragonhelm Aug 07, 2003 9:21:39	Remember too that Paladins don't have to be knightly types. Generally we think of them that way, but consider what a kagonesti elf paladin would be like. Or perhaps a kender paladin or a gnome paladin.
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2003 13:32:15	Originally posted by Dragonhelm a gnome paladin. Now that brings up a comical image :D Perhaps they could be the new clockwork-heros for Dragonlance :fight!:
#13 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2003 21:03:37	I can see there being a role for Paladins in the various non-Solamnic cultures of Krynn. I would definitely expect the Qualinesti and Silvanesti elves to have some associations of divine warriors - although in that case a Chaotic Good knightly order of fighter / holy liberators dedicated to Astarin / Astra would make a lot more sense. The Empire of Ergoth, however, and the Minotaur League in Taladas, should have a small but significant prescence of Paladins, as should the mountain dwarves of Garnet ( Kaolyn ), with their exposure to Solamnic culture and principles. The role of Paladin in the lands of the Bloodsea Minotaurs would be filled by fighter / blackguards dedicated to Sargas, but the scions of the few noble houses who still revere Kiri-Jolith could produce the occasional true paladin. So it all depends on the cultural context.
#14 ferratus Aug 07, 2003 22:16:21	I have a feeling that there are going to be many, many more campaigns with paladins than without them. I mean, the Knights of Solamnia as a replacement are just too limited.
#15 shugi Aug 08, 2003 10:52:28	I'm glad that the DLCS makes paladins "non-standard" -- the 3rd edition rules seem to contradict themselves by having a base class that can only be taken by LG people. It'd be like having a "handler" base class, but only kender can take it. In my mind, these things fall into the realm of a prestige class. I can accept Ferratus' champion theory, but why do CG or LE champions have to suffer by comparison? If I did allow paladins in my campaign, they'd probably be the actual "Champion" class from Arcana Unearthed. It's a base class that is customizable for both alignment and cause, and is easily added to DL.
#16 Dragonhelm Aug 08, 2003 11:08:27	Originally posted by Eidolon I'm glad that the DLCS makes paladins "non-standard" -- the 3rd edition rules seem to contradict themselves by having a base class that can only be taken by LG people. It'd be like having a "handler" base class, but only kender can take it. In my mind, these things fall into the realm of a prestige class. I think the paladin is a base class primarily because it has traditionally been a standard D&D class. I really don't see anything that would outright prohibit a paladin in DL. However, one has to look at the overall picture. Theoretically, each god would have a champion for their ideals. As such, the paldin doesn't fit, as the others would be prestige classes. More the reason to keep the paladin as "non-standard". Play it if you want, but know how it would relate to other divine champions, if you were to have them at all. I can accept Ferratus' champion theory, but why do CG or LE champions have to suffer by comparison? If I did allow paladins in my campaign, they'd probably be the actual "Champion" class from Arcana Unearthed. It's a base class that is customizable for both alignment and cause, and is easily added to DL. I think the Champion class from AU would be interesting in DL. The KoS would champion life, the KoT would champion death (I think those are the two categories I'm thinking of), and the LoS could champion freedom.
#17 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 11:41:13	I think paladins should be completely removed from all Player Handbooks and from the list of playable classes and transported to... the Monstrous Manual; that way they get their due credit. Nor should they be given names. They should be random encounters. DM: You see a group of long haired folk in shiny armor with a holier-than-thou look on their face. Player: I wish to engage. DM: Paladin #1 takes a swing at you while Paladin #2 begins to hum and polish his amulet. Player: I want to destroy them all. DM: You destroy them all. Reward yourself 4 exp. points. Player: Stupid paladins. DM. Stupid paladins. Just my glorious opinion of paladins. Mwahahahahaa
#18 ferratus Aug 08, 2003 16:45:40	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I really don't see anything that would outright prohibit a paladin in DL. However, one has to look at the overall picture. Theoretically, each god would have a champion for their ideals. As such, the paldin doesn't fit, as the others would be prestige classes. I think they are called clerics. ;) But if it bothers you that paladins are only champions for good, then let's see what our players will come up with. I can see a player who plays a paladin who was trained at the Citadel of Light, like Linsha. Especially if she reads a book about Linsha. Paladins could be a holy warrior who serves the gods of good not in the same manner as a cleric, with temple services and such. Rather, he could simply be a holy warrior that is inspired by a diety, and roams around as a wandering dervish or knight-errant. See, Knights of Solamnia and Knights of Nereka are problematic to contain all manner of paladins. What if someone wants to play a holy warrior, but doesn't want the baggage of the knighthood?
#19 Dragonhelm Aug 08, 2003 16:59:52	One of my favorite paladin ideas for DL (and th is works nicely for the 3.5 paladin) is called the Spiritwalker. Basically, this is a kagonesti elf paladin. His war horse is also his spirit guide. Remember, not all paladins are knights in shining armor! I took a lot of inspiration from The Crow for this one.
#20 zombiegleemax Aug 10, 2003 0:27:31	Paladins have been allowed. Sometimes makes more sense than a KoS, too. And, in knight-heavy eras, a paladin would make a great Squire, I think. 3 levels in paladin, 17 in knights. Not too bad, especially since I think that Rose knights will get some Inspire Courage types of abilities, or even Swords, at that.