Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Brom_Blackforge Aug 07, 2003 13:22:17	I was just looking at the interview on the WotC website with the designers of the new Dragonlance campaign setting sourcebook, and noticed their mention of future Dragonlance products coming out as well. This must be an exciting time for Dragonlance fans, but I wonder: does this new activity relating to an established setting other than Forgotten Realms bode well or ill for the prospect of future Greyhawk releases? Will the new Dragonlance product line be followed by new Greyhawk products? Or was it a matter of choosing one or the other - Dragonlance or Greyhawk - out of a belief that RPG fans cannot support three campaign settings?
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2003 13:42:48	As I understand it, future Dragonlance products will not be created or published by WOTC. They will in fact be made by Sovereign Press who has aquired the license to publish Dragonlance material. How does this relate to Greyhawk? It doesn't. At all. WOTC is not changing anything. They will still be keeping GH as their default setting in majority (but not exclusive) reference in their generic books and publish FR campaign specific material. Will new GH material be forthcoming? Nope. Not unless another publishing company wants to attempt the same thing that White Wolf did with Ravenloft or that Sovereign Press did with Dragonlance. It has been attempted with other settings by other publishers, but these are the only companies that have had success with aquiring a publishing lisence over WOTC intellectual property. WOTC is very, very selective with who they allow to aquire their lisences for older campaign settings. For example, the Dark Sun lisence was nearly purchased by several different groups (inlcuding, IIRC, AEG as well the setting creator Troy Denning). Neither attempt was successful though. It is highly unlikely that the lisence for GH will ever be sold over to another publisher especially with the added complications of Living Greyhawk and the use of GH as an example setting (note the use of example and not default) for their generic books.
#3 Argon Aug 07, 2003 20:15:13	Well it depends on the sucess of the Dragonlance campaign setting. WOTC has to be receiveing some type of royalties for the licensing agreement. If the setting does well WOTC will have a bigger bargining chip when dealing with their other licensing opportunities. Darksun will probably be next on the block. The Darksun board is second to the Dragonlance board in replies. Obviously both past performance in the setting's sales as well as novels and fan base was a big factor in the decission. Also WOTC lose's nothing if the setting fails. Greyhawk has a depleted fan base, lack of world specific novels. Heck it ranks thrid on the boards under Darksun and Dragonlance. Plus WOTC has agreements with RPGA and Kenzer co. on the Greyhawk line. In truth WOTC seems to be attempting to draw a bigger fan base to the setting or gaugeing it's popularity with gamers. In either scenario, you can see this is a long time in the making. So I wouldn't hold my breath not that I ever did.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 0:07:05	The Darksun board is second to the Dragonlance board in replies. I think that has more to do with the fact that the Dark Sun 3e conversion is under an open testing style. The core team at Athas.org does work with the small fanbase through both the message boards as well as the DS mailing list for presenting previews and for feedback purposes. You'll notice though that when there's not a lot of updates to the conversion project, there are fewer posts. Generally, being a small part of both the DS boards as well as the GH boards, both have around the same amount of individual posters and lurkers. Same thing happens on the GH boards is when something new actually occures that gives people something to talk about (ex: Scourge of Worlds release), its just that not as much is happening with GH. Personally, I like the situation as is. I hope that no one actually does aquire the license to produce new material for these settings. I think that the fans can do just as fine a job at keeping the settings alive and well through community support of one another. The fact that GH has several great websites devoted to it that are generally good at coming up with new material is very inspiring. The DS conversion that I've been following very closely for some time now (and have probably been an all around pain in the arse with ;)) has come along just fine and is as good as anything that a 3rd party would have published. The sneak peak of the Planescape conversion looks quite well. Birthright's conversion was also a nice surprise (and is coming out with an update/overhaul of some kind in the near future). To me, things are just as they should be, with publishing companies keeping thier hands off the fan's beloved settings so that they can be taken in the direction that the fan's themselves want things to go. Come on, its us who's playing these games. Why should someone else decide, based on subjected profit margins and sales goals, what best suits a particular setting, or where the campaign should be directed. I just think that some people need to get off the duff a bit and help contribute to the community success of their favorite settings. But then again, this is just my not so humble opinion.
#5 Argon Aug 08, 2003 1:08:43	Mach, I agree that fans have the right to choose which way the setting they play in takes place. As far as contributing I have two article son canonfire and a soon to be released website. I've stated it before that a 3.0 or 3.5 update probably won't get me to invest my buck or two. But it might start a new fan base which I am not adverse too. Personally Darksun wasn't to my liking though some of the world specific ideas were cool. I just didn't think Athas was worthy of a stand alone setting IMO. I always thought Ravenloft would have fared much better with out any demi-human races. Ravenloft took a Gothic approach and tried to leave the fantasy feel of other D&D settings. Birthright should have been rule supplements for various campaign settings. I thought the setting was well developed but it's conservative approach did not endear it to younger gamers. Dragonlance had a great fantasy feel, but some people I know found its rules to restrictive and it's lack of campaign support except what one could conclude from the novels. I on the other hand thought Krynn was a far better setting the FR. The Forgotten Realms has great detail on the gods of the realms. But FR seems to lack a constant plot line which doesn't involve the all too present Harpers or Elminister. All of FR villians are horrible baddies that don't attack anyone. Come on the Zhents and Mulmaster should have squashed the Dalelands years ago. So in the end every one has a different flavor it just depends on what you like and what fits best in your campaign. But it doesn't mean someone shouldn't be given the rights to publish it for those new gamers to come.
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 1:37:04	From what I understand, it's not a matter of who, but a matter of how much. Basically, nobody is willing to pay the license fee because it's an absolutely ridiculous amount. If the rumour is to be believed, then the sum is around $20,000 USD plus royalties and the right to edit and dictate material produced. That's from several sources who, or so they claimed, tried to aquire the license.
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 3:16:49	Basically, nobody is willing to pay the license fee because it's an absolutely ridiculous amount Granted, this is all from speculative rumor and no, I don't know the amounts, but its not a matter of how much. For example, we do know that Troy Denning, author and creator of Dark Sun, made an attempt to aquire the license for DS at a time before White Wolf had purchased the license for Ravenloft (which showed WOTC the value of restricted licensing of core books for a setting and partial royalties). He was refused and from what we know, not on the grounds of having a lack of money, but on the grounds that he would not be able to produce material that was of a quality that reflected well on WOTC. From what I also understand (though there are far more qualified people out there to asnwer this one), the license for Dragonlance was hard fought for by 'proving' (wrong word perhaps) that Soverign Press would produce quality Dragonlance material. If they sold it to just anyone, believe me, I'd have had a resource pool and already bought a lisence or two (regardless of the financial losses).
#8 Brom_Blackforge Aug 08, 2003 8:11:50	Of course, I should have realized that the further Dragonlance products were coming out from another company under license from WotC. It just looked like the new campaign sourcebook was a WotC product (and maybe it is, I'm not sure; maybe this first thing is coming out from WotC, with the rest of the products to be released by someone else). My point was this: is WotC now willing to branch out beyond FR, and if so, how far? I, for one, would love to see a new Greyhawk sourcebook but only if it showed a high level of commitment to the setting, which I think the new Dragonlance sourcebook seems to do for that setting. I'm sure that we would all agree that the worst thing WotC could do would be to churn out just any old crap and put the Greyhawk label on it. I do hope that products like "Scourge of Worlds" and the ToEE game are intended to test the waters for further Greyhawk products, but I also hope that any further products live up to the standards that the fans hold for the setting.
#9 chatdemon Aug 09, 2003 4:07:19	Originally posted by Mach2.5 He was refused and from what we know, not on the grounds of having a lack of money, but on the grounds that he would not be able to produce material that was of a quality that reflected well on WOTC. That's probably part of why they (supposedly, again, this is all rumor and speculation) are asking for a high license fee. They want established companies that will maintain and expand the value of their properties, not fly by night groups of fans who just want a shot at making their material 'canon'. If that's the case, I can't say I blame them. The campaign settings do carry a value with them, and WotC would be wise to want the built in value to increase.
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 09, 2003 5:52:57	Quite true. A fly by night company or crazed fan (err . . . not that I'm just a crazed fan or anything . . . heehee, mwahahaha, cackle cackle cackle) would not be able to produce the quality on par with WOTC, which would in turn reflect poorly on WOTC and cause a loss of reputation by association and hence hurt their sales. . . *whew, a mouthful and then some*. I could probably offer some ungodly amount and still be turned down flatly, with much chuckling and laughter after walking dejectedly out of the WOTC office (not that I really have that much money). The licenses are also WOTC's reputation that they are selling. Any company wishing to purchase one at that high a price had better be able to make the product good enough and marketable enough to pull profit and recover from the innitial investment, which in turn requires that any company doing so have more than just a year or two project goal in mind. So unfortunately, fly-by-nighters and crazed fans need not apply.