Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 11:15:55	First off, I'm not propsing this be made official PS3E material, rather that I want to gain peoples opinions on the idea and wether or not the templates I've designed as balanced. If this is the wrong place to put this I appologise. Also note that these are for 3.0 though I'm not sure what the differences would be. The question is are these templates balanced? Basically I want to take advantage of the template system in 3rd Edition and allow for more adaptable aasimar and tieflings in line with Skills and Powers from 2nd ed. To this end I've designed a template that can be applied to most humanoid creatures, though some will be more common than others, that adds to instead of replaces the racial abilities based on what kind of celestial/fiendish ancestry that character has. Note on the ECL, since the creature retains it's base abilities AND gets new ones based on the template I've upped the ECL to +2. Aasimar Template Tiefling Template
#2 catland93 Aug 08, 2003 12:04:48	It's a good work but i think there is'nt +2ecl if the abilities substitute the others. It's a variant, not a powering!
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2003 21:29:40	As I said, it's because they get (for example) Human racial abilities PLUS the aasimar racial abilities, so bonus feat, +4/+1 skill points, a spell per day, resistances, darkvision and positive ability score modifiers. Yes, I have also considered just swapping the spell and the resistances on a normal aasimar/tiefling with any one of the packages here, now that'd certainly still be +1 ECL. Still, any other opinions? More of you think that this isn't worth +2 ECL?
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2003 22:52:24	I like the templates. I think it good to have this option, that way you can have Aasimar Goblins and the like. One suggestion, throw in a small table for each descendent for the kinds of physical manifestations of the particular ancestry. Example for Baatuzi the character has goat horns, forked tail etc.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2003 2:17:59	I was thinking about making asimar and tiefling templates a while back, but never got down to writing it all up. I like what you've done. I understand erring on the side of cautious, and giving the templates a +2 ecl. I think you might have been too cautious, though. However, if you nerfed the spell like ability, and perhaps dropped one of the +2 bonusses (or maybe added another -2 penalty) to an ability scores, you could just make them +1 ecl. Another (rather minor) nitpick: the tieflings have a -2 to charisma. Yet they cast spells as sorcerers... who have charisma as their most important ability score... and finally: why did you include rilmani as member of the aasimar? they are after all, neutral. Neither good nor evil, celestial nor fiend.
#6 sildatorak Oct 31, 2003 17:55:22	Tieflings probably should actually have a positive modifier to charisma...there is just something about the silver tounged devils...also in 2e they had a +1 cha IIRC
#7 wyvern76 Nov 01, 2003 2:24:55	Love the concept, and the execution looks solid except for one thing: it looks like you've got aasimons and archons confused. There ought to be a separate template for each of them. As far as the ECL is concerned, combined with the racial abilties of the base creature, I think they're right on the borderline between +1 and +2. It's a tough call. Wyvern
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 02, 2003 6:20:33	After extensive playtesting I've found that the +2 ECL is harsh to a character and should be modified to +1 ECL. Since I don't have access to the hosting option anymore, I can't make the change to the published documents. I went with the penalty to charisma for Tieflings simply to retain the same ability score modifiers as presented by WoTC. I agree that the Tiefling sterotype is a silver-tounged charmer but that is more a product of skills than it is their force of personality, perhaps a +2 to Bluff and Diplomacy checks is in order instead? Yes, the charisma penalty does cause them problems with their spell-like abilities, but it's a standard thing as far as I can tell for spell-like abilities to be cast as if by sorcerers of the same level if wizard spells, a cleric if they're divine spells. As for including Rilmani in the aasimar, that's basically because I didn't want to produce another document simply detailing Rilmani and I felt they deserved a place somewhere and were closer to celestials than they were to fiends in terms of powers. I left out Archons because the Dragon Magazine article I was using as inspiritation for the powers didn't include anything specific I could use for archons and thus I couldn't think of a suitable, appropriate power for them (the Skills and Powers 2e article) If anyone would like to host the revised templates on a D&D site it'd be appriciated, please e-mail me at [email]funny_guy_666@yahoo.co.uk[/email].
#9 factol_rhys_dup Nov 02, 2003 17:49:02	As others have pointed out, the Rilmani aren't celestials and don't really belong on the list. The PS3E team included Tuladhara as a race of neutrally-planetouched mortals. Now, the Rilmani never seemed to be too frisky to me, so I don't see who would be descended from one. We don't even really know where they themselves come from. As for archons, and not being able to think of a specific power for them, how about Mage Armor, or Detect Evil? Chaos?
#10 lord_of_the_ninth_02 Nov 03, 2003 0:05:20	Here's what they get according to the AD&D PS MC I: "All tieflings gain a +1 bonus to intelligence and charisma, and suffer a -1 penelty to strength and wisdom. All tieflings have infravision 60' and can creat darkness 15' radius once per day." So there you have it. Tieflings ought to have a bonus to charisma, not a penelty (I believe the bonus was supposed to result from many tieflings being related to sucubi). Course, aasimar had a +1 bonus to strength and wisdom and had a -2 penalty to constitution (the con penalty was about the frailty they got from mixed blood).
#11 wyvern76 Nov 03, 2003 2:02:40	Originally posted by Lucio Havelock I left out Archons because the Dragon Magazine article I was using as inspiritation for the powers didn't include anything specific I could use for archons and thus I couldn't think of a suitable, appropriate power for them (the Skills and Powers 2e article) Well, looking at the archons in the SRD, the most common spell-like abilities are aid, detect evil and continual flame. I'd say continual flame is a bad choice since it usually requires a 50 gp material component. Either one of the others would be appropriate, though. I'd go with detect evil since it's 1st-level; then again, you gave eladrin a 2nd-level spell-like ability, so aid wouldn't be terribly overpowered. For special qualities, they should have electricity resistance 10 and darkvision 60'. Ghaele eladrin are immune to electricity and not at all resistant to acid, so I'd give their descendants electricity resistance 10 instead of acid and cold resistance 5. Likewise, sonic resistance would be more appropriate than acid resistance for guardinals, if the avoral is representative. Wyvern