Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zar_niln Aug 17, 2003 0:25:39	I am planning to run a Ravenloft Campaign after my current campaign winds down. It will start with the PCs being in a small town and seeing an out of control planejammer spin out of control and head for Barovia. The planejammer will obliterate Castle Ravenloft and Strahd. Strahd's tie to the land will have an impact on the demiplane, and it will severely throw it "out of whack." Darklords will make saves every day to reign in their control, the mists will clear out in some areas and flow over mountains and make them dissappear as every 9th level cleric is someones best friend. I expect the githyanki to land on the demiplane and begin looting. Falkovnia, with the largest actual standing army, becomes a real powerhouse. Vecna and Iuz return to do unseen business, and two new Darklords arise from the chaos. A duergar wizard, bent on using the demiplane for his sadistic experiments, forges the new domain of Darkhome. The blue goblin telepath Cartak Narg, fleeing from a corrupt government in another plane, now resides in the new domain of New Ilkandar. Many other of the original domains lie in ruins as their darklords were killed, escaped, or are in hiding. So, comments?
#2 zar_niln Aug 18, 2003 22:08:51	A very shameful bump
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 19:39:21	I'm sure it'll be great but you are deviating a great deal from the mood of gothic horror where the bad guys can appear "normal" and the greatest threats linger offstage rather than in your face. Are you sure this wouldn't work better in the remote parts of some other setting? Why would the Dark Powers allow what you've outlined to happen? How does this further the their (admittedly inscruitable) goals?
#4 zar_niln Aug 20, 2003 21:39:33	That's the point. With Strahd dead, the Dark Powers focus for Ravenloft is gone. They're losing control. That's why it's all ***ed up!
#5 harzerkatze Aug 21, 2003 6:37:58	Hmmm. Doesn't really sound like such a good idea to me. I mean, what's the point? Why choose Ravenloft and then destroy what makes it special? Ravenloft without the dark powers is just another priome material country. If your campaign is running in Ravenloft and players just don't like it anymore, then I can see the merit in breaking it all to pieces to effectively give the players a new campiagn world, less dark and brooding. But starting a campaign like that? Sounds like starting a dark sun campaign, but having it rain every day so that flowers can grow everywhere.
#6 zar_niln Aug 24, 2003 0:14:58	Less dark and brooding? 1. Falkovnian armies marching everywhere, leaving forests of piked victims. 2. All undead which where under control of Azalin go haywire as Azalin is the first person to LEAVE Ravenloft. 3. Mists going even more out of control, sending people half-way across the core twice as often. Need I say more?
#7 harzerkatze Aug 25, 2003 3:34:47	Well, higher threat does not mean deeper horror. What you describe doesn't sound as terrifying as the regular Ravenloft to me. I mean, effectively you have a lot of wandering monsters now. Doesn't sound that terrifying to me, wandering undead exist in every campaign world. What made Ravenloft creepy is that it's threats are concealed, they lurk, they don't storm on you. Being attacked by pillaging raiders or a horde of zombies can happen in any forgotten realm or birthright campaign any day. That's not what I would call dark and brooding, it's clearly visible. That's why I would say Ravenloft is less fitting for this kind of campaign. If you do the "Azalins undead run amok" idea, for example, all folks in Ravenloft will quickly know that there are monsters running around outside and that they need a hero with a large sword to hack them to pieces. Welcome to your generic hack-n-slash campaign world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to criticise you. You can do with your campaign what you want. But I think your ides will rather lessen the amtosphere for your players than increase it. That's all I'm saying.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 27, 2003 1:07:28	If you put the work into it I'm sure you'll develop a great campaign, but its not a premise I'd use. I think you're underestimating the Dark Powers and Strahd. In my opinion the Dark Powers (for whatever reason) take a perverse pleasure in keeping their "pets" twisting in the wind. If the mists rise continually to keep whats-his-name the elven vampire from immolating himself at dawn why wouldn't the mists whisk Strahd or the Spelljammer away to a different site? Strahd has a mountain retreat, I think he'd just reform there. Rather than what you're planning why don't you advance the timeline to incorporate your new domains? -Eric Gorman
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 08, 2003 15:46:11	The biggest question is how would a Spelljammer (is that what you meant by PlaneJammer?) ship crash onto Ravenloft? Ravenloft is a demiplane in the Ethereal (that's where all those mists come from). You cannot reach the Ethereal plane from outside a crystal sphere, and, even if you could, you could not enter Ravenloft "by accident." Access to the Demiplane of Dread is controlled by the Dark Powers, who are considered, for the most part, Greater Deities. As such, since this is their demi-plane, they control entry into it at will. So then why would they allow a ship to crash into their pet darklord's castle and destabilize their control of the place? As HvF and Harzerkatze both observed: It's your campaign. Do what you want with it. But why bother specifying Ravenloft if all you obviously plan on doing is tearing the whole setting down in the first five minutes anyway and freeing all the Darklords so that no one will run into them or their servants? I could do the exact same thing you plan on doing with any other setting (or a generic setting of my own design) and it would make far more sense in the existing "reality" of D&D and likely keep players interested since they wouldn't be expecting to play "Ravenloft" and get "Ravenloft Annihilated" instead.
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2003 15:33:06	Actually, this could work. And you could do it without trashing all of Ravenloft. The trick is remembering that the Dark Powers can create a Domain of any size at will. They can apparently create people as well. The story : Out in the Mists is a Domain exactly like the Core, except that the Domain Lords are all fake. The Strahd there is not the real vampire lord and has no bond with the land. The ship crashes and "kills" the Strahd who never really existed. Azalin "escapes" by ceasing to exist. The land is thrown into choas and new Domain Lords with real powers are brought in. A post-apocalyptic Ravenloft called Dark Mirror is created. Why was this done? For the benefit of someone on the ship. This person's deeds created a new domain that required a rather extreme form of prison. The Dark Powers used his sins to form a new Core. He is the Strahd of this new realm, all other Domains are a reflection of his. This Domain Lord should be someone none will suspect (maybe a friend of the PCs ?). Thats all I have for now. Remember that, if you think you have Ravenloft all figured out, you just failed a Will Save.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2003 11:56:37	Ravenloft without the dark powers could very well be accomplished, and as it has been duly noted, it's your campaign, you do what you want. But I would only suggest this if you and your players have thoroughly played Ravenloft for some time, and are really immersed in the setting. In that case, all the changes you make will seem refreshing. If they're fairly new to RL, they won't mean jack to them. Post apocalyptic RL is interesting, but personally, I think your Spelljammer idea is a bit, well, far stretched. I know of one guy from the RL mailinglist who did a similar thing in his campaign: the pcs, all 20th lvl+++ decided to alter time, thereby voiding Strahds contract with the Dark Powers and releasing Ravenloft from their grip. If this is properly thought out, it could be very interesting...
#12 zar_niln Oct 12, 2003 0:28:55	Thank you guys for all your input and opinions. I was actually going to run this at MAGE Con South, but time ran out. I'd love to hear some more stuff from everyone.