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The Noble

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2003 4:25:03 While I think that the Mystic Core Class is pretty useless, what can I expect of the Noble Core Class ?
Is it worth playing or just some kind of support class nobody will ever choose to play ?
#2
ferratus
Aug 17, 2003 4:44:58 You can't just say that. Why is the mystic class useless? Do you just not like the flavour? Do you think it is underpowered? If the latter, why?

I myself am very interested in the mystic class, especially a mystic with the trickery domain. The thing I'm most concerned about is mystics being forced to cast too many healing spells in the absence of a cleric.
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2003 4:57:59 I think the number of spells the mytic knows is just too few. He is too inflexible. For the sorceror this might be okay but the cleric's spell list is all about variety and combination of 'not so powerful' spells.
My players all rejected when I offered them to play the Mystic. He is no match for the cleric they said.
But maybe I missed a point....
#4
ferratus
Aug 17, 2003 5:08:48 Yeah, my DM said much the same thing. There is a case to be made for that, because outside of the healing spells, there are not many you really want to keep around forever. For example, spells such as atonement, remove curse, or greater restoration aren't necessarily spells you want to have all the time, but only occassionally as you need it.

The solution to this of course, is to make many more mystic spells, and make them unavailable in the cleric spell list.

But we have a new sourcebook on the Citadel of Light coming out... right guys at Sovereign Press? In the meantime, the one mystic character you'll see should be able to find enough spells to make for a viable spell list.

Of course, the mystics also cannot turn undead or wear heavy armour. I'm not sure if the spontaneous casting covers that or not. I would think so, but only playtesting will let me know for sure.
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2003 5:25:51 New spells for the mystic and feats for the mystic, that would be good.

And what do you think of the noble ???
#6
nicodemus_dup
Aug 18, 2003 6:30:00 If you find the Mystic not powerfull enough, you could always let mystics choose from both the cleric and the druid spell lists. This would make them a bit more powerfull and have some other (non-healing) spells who are usefull if you cast them a lot (entangle, barkskin, flaming sphere, ...) .
#7
cam_banks
Aug 18, 2003 8:47:29
Originally posted by Seraphistus
I think the number of spells the mytic knows is just too few. He is too inflexible. For the sorceror this might be okay but the cleric's spell list is all about variety and combination of 'not so powerful' spells.
My players all rejected when I offered them to play the Mystic. He is no match for the cleric they said.
But maybe I missed a point....

Yep. The mystic is a walking domain, capable of spontaneously casting any spell he knows. He can cast more spells per day than a cleric, doesn't have to prepare them, doesn't have to follow the tenets of any god, doesn't need a holy symbol, and if he feels like casting the same spell 5 times a day he can do so.

He doesn't have the breadth of spells that a cleric does, but I wouldn't equate this with flexibility. A mystic character should be designed around his domain, tailored to meet whatever role you intend him to play. Given your choice of any domain in the book, not just the 3 or 4 your deity offers, I think mystics have a definite advantage in some areas.

As for the noble - best class in D&D. But then I'm somewhat biased, given how much I champion the cause of the noble class.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
shugi
Aug 18, 2003 12:41:27
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Yep. The mystic is a walking domain, capable of spontaneously casting any spell he knows. He can cast more spells per day than a cleric, doesn't have to prepare them, doesn't have to follow the tenets of any god, doesn't need a holy symbol, and if he feels like casting the same spell 5 times a day he can do so.

I'm in nitpicking mode today but I couldn't find any mention in the Mystic class that lets them ignore the Divine Focus requirement. I'm letting sorcerers and mystics ignore focus requirements (they get Eschew Materials as well), but that's a house rule.
#9
cam_banks
Aug 18, 2003 12:53:37
Originally posted by Shugi
I'm in nitpicking mode today but I couldn't find any mention in the Mystic class that lets them ignore the Divine Focus requirement. I'm letting sorcerers and mystics ignore focus requirements (they get Eschew Materials as well), but that's a house rule.

Well, yeah, I'm fairly sure that spells which require a DF continue to do so. They don't need a holy symbol, though, so if you wanted, you could simply say that in the case of the mystic the divine focus is any item they carry on their person which is personally significant to them or the domain they chose (such as a longsword for a mystic of War, or a walking stick for a mystic of Travel, etc).

Cheers,
Cam
#10
sweetmeats
Aug 18, 2003 17:56:34 Mystic:
Personally I don't have a problem with the mystic class. I think that it suffers from the same negative side of things as the sorcerer. As I see it, the mystic isn't going to be toting around atonements and whatnot all that much.

Noble:
As far as I could tell, the Noble class was basically the same as the one from the D20 Star Wars and I think they both work. The only thing I don't like is that you can't take it beyond first level. That I think I will change but it requires roleplaying, storytelling and appropriate plot.
#11
zombiegleemax
Aug 18, 2003 18:17:07 Just wondering if they fixed the 'favour' ability of the Noble. From memory they lose the favour once it was called upon but gain additional favours as they rise in levels.

Arandur

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2003 4:25:03	While I think that the Mystic Core Class is pretty useless, what can I expect of the Noble Core Class ? Is it worth playing or just some kind of support class nobody will ever choose to play ?
#2 ferratus Aug 17, 2003 4:44:58	You can't just say that. Why is the mystic class useless? Do you just not like the flavour? Do you think it is underpowered? If the latter, why? I myself am very interested in the mystic class, especially a mystic with the trickery domain. The thing I'm most concerned about is mystics being forced to cast too many healing spells in the absence of a cleric.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2003 4:57:59	I think the number of spells the mytic knows is just too few. He is too inflexible. For the sorceror this might be okay but the cleric's spell list is all about variety and combination of 'not so powerful' spells. My players all rejected when I offered them to play the Mystic. He is no match for the cleric they said. But maybe I missed a point....
#4 ferratus Aug 17, 2003 5:08:48	Yeah, my DM said much the same thing. There is a case to be made for that, because outside of the healing spells, there are not many you really want to keep around forever. For example, spells such as atonement, remove curse, or greater restoration aren't necessarily spells you want to have all the time, but only occassionally as you need it. The solution to this of course, is to make many more mystic spells, and make them unavailable in the cleric spell list. But we have a new sourcebook on the Citadel of Light coming out... right guys at Sovereign Press? In the meantime, the one mystic character you'll see should be able to find enough spells to make for a viable spell list. Of course, the mystics also cannot turn undead or wear heavy armour. I'm not sure if the spontaneous casting covers that or not. I would think so, but only playtesting will let me know for sure.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2003 5:25:51	New spells for the mystic and feats for the mystic, that would be good. And what do you think of the noble ???
#6 nicodemus_dup Aug 18, 2003 6:30:00	If you find the Mystic not powerfull enough, you could always let mystics choose from both the cleric and the druid spell lists. This would make them a bit more powerfull and have some other (non-healing) spells who are usefull if you cast them a lot (entangle, barkskin, flaming sphere, ...) .
#7 cam_banks Aug 18, 2003 8:47:29	Originally posted by Seraphistus I think the number of spells the mytic knows is just too few. He is too inflexible. For the sorceror this might be okay but the cleric's spell list is all about variety and combination of 'not so powerful' spells. My players all rejected when I offered them to play the Mystic. He is no match for the cleric they said. But maybe I missed a point.... Yep. The mystic is a walking domain, capable of spontaneously casting any spell he knows. He can cast more spells per day than a cleric, doesn't have to prepare them, doesn't have to follow the tenets of any god, doesn't need a holy symbol, and if he feels like casting the same spell 5 times a day he can do so. He doesn't have the breadth of spells that a cleric does, but I wouldn't equate this with flexibility. A mystic character should be designed around his domain, tailored to meet whatever role you intend him to play. Given your choice of any domain in the book, not just the 3 or 4 your deity offers, I think mystics have a definite advantage in some areas. As for the noble - best class in D&D. But then I'm somewhat biased, given how much I champion the cause of the noble class. Cheers, Cam
#8 shugi Aug 18, 2003 12:41:27	Originally posted by Cam Banks Yep. The mystic is a walking domain, capable of spontaneously casting any spell he knows. He can cast more spells per day than a cleric, doesn't have to prepare them, doesn't have to follow the tenets of any god, doesn't need a holy symbol, and if he feels like casting the same spell 5 times a day he can do so. I'm in nitpicking mode today but I couldn't find any mention in the Mystic class that lets them ignore the Divine Focus requirement. I'm letting sorcerers and mystics ignore focus requirements (they get Eschew Materials as well), but that's a house rule.
#9 cam_banks Aug 18, 2003 12:53:37	Originally posted by Shugi I'm in nitpicking mode today but I couldn't find any mention in the Mystic class that lets them ignore the Divine Focus requirement. I'm letting sorcerers and mystics ignore focus requirements (they get Eschew Materials as well), but that's a house rule. Well, yeah, I'm fairly sure that spells which require a DF continue to do so. They don't need a holy symbol, though, so if you wanted, you could simply say that in the case of the mystic the divine focus is any item they carry on their person which is personally significant to them or the domain they chose (such as a longsword for a mystic of War, or a walking stick for a mystic of Travel, etc). Cheers, Cam
#10 sweetmeats Aug 18, 2003 17:56:34	Mystic: Personally I don't have a problem with the mystic class. I think that it suffers from the same negative side of things as the sorcerer. As I see it, the mystic isn't going to be toting around atonements and whatnot all that much. Noble: As far as I could tell, the Noble class was basically the same as the one from the D20 Star Wars and I think they both work. The only thing I don't like is that you can't take it beyond first level. That I think I will change but it requires roleplaying, storytelling and appropriate plot.
#11 zombiegleemax Aug 18, 2003 18:17:07	Just wondering if they fixed the 'favour' ability of the Noble. From memory they lose the favour once it was called upon but gain additional favours as they rise in levels. Arandur