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#1zombiegleemaxAug 17, 2003 19:51:40 | Figured I might ask the local greybeards about it. This is something I have been curious about ever since I first heard the Ring-Givers would now be a faction. Why they, of all sects, had been elevated to faction status? Why not the Order of the Planes Militant or the Communals (which had been a faction in the past) or any other sect, for that matter? Also, if memory serves me well, the main difference between a sect and a faction was that the factions were part of the ruling body of Sigil, and therefore could easily spread their word. While sects simply lacked such an authority within the Cage. Now that most of the factions had been expelled from Sigil, what will make that difference? Thanks on advance for the clarifications. P.S.: I remember reading, I don't know where, that factions are somehow more deeply involved with the multiverse as a whole, if that is the case, ignore the second paragraph. |
#2Shemeska_the_MarauderAug 17, 2003 21:39:22 | Well, with the factions largely displaced from Sigil, at least in terms of having any official power, there's a large power vacuum to fill. The guilds of Sigil have sprung up to handle many of the tasks previously run by the factions, and bloods such as Zadara the Titan (*makes a face*) and my most humble self, Shemeska the Marauder have gained more than considerable influence in the City of Doors. But with regards to the Ring Givers... the sect gone faction has found itself with a new factol. Namely Jeremo the Natterer, who besides being the owner of the Palace of the Jester, the single largest building in all of the City of Doors, is among the single wealthiest bloods in all of the multiverse. Look no further than his influence in Sigil, and within the faction itself for a reason why they've increased in prominance so. However Jeremo's push for power may yet run him afoul of Her Serenity if his own power and his factions power conflicts with the rather nebulous edict banning the factions from Sigil. As of yet he's not been mazed or struck down by Her shadow, but it shall be interesting to watch. He is a canny blood, and I find myself in avid respect of his charisma and skills of manipulation. He knows what he wants and he finds a way to bend the rules of his faction's philosophy to benefit him in such a way as to obtain it, whatever it may be. I wouldn't compare him to ME in any way, but he's a rising power in Sigil by any conjecture. Perhaps I might find a way to bring him and that (edited) Titan into conflict. |
#3zombiegleemaxAug 18, 2003 1:11:59 | y'wanna know the real reason? it's because the ring-givers "gave" the planewalker.com peoples a large "gift". also, i "like" qu"otat"ion mark"s. and they're getting a lot in return, faction inclusion. those dagnabbed ring-givers and they're bribe- [man walks in, hands YehovahZ a bag with a gp sign (i have no idea what that would look like) and walks out]. all hail the ring-givers. hey wait! i'm still in the gatehouse! lemme out! argh! stupid ring-givers [looks in bag]. h-h-holy crap! ring-givers are the greatest thing ever! |
#4caoslayerAug 18, 2003 12:47:50 | ummm, in the official sigilĀ“s guide sayed that jeremo wanted to get the rng-givers into sigil with him as a high member... look that planewalker people helped him. sigh, they should had keeped the setting with the same time that the official 2nd edition, so people would be able to play using the info of the books and the new rules without modifications. |
#5Shemeska_the_MarauderAug 18, 2003 13:09:17 | The setting has been advanced about 5 years, give or take a bit, since the end of Faction War, and all of the writeups of the factions and of Sigil itself will reflect that length of time and the changes it introduces. Fear not, there should be rules enough to handle running a game pre-faction war. In the descriptions of sites/individuals in the City of Doors the information is broad enough to include both before and after FW events and references. When it's released hopefully you'll find it to your liking. Tried my best |
#6zombiegleemaxAug 18, 2003 22:11:22 | An absolutely wonderful explanation by Shemeshka, and an astute observation by CaoSlayer. The "technical" reason the Ring-Givers were elevated to faction status is really very simple: Moogle asked me what I wanted to write about, and I chose the Athar and the Ring-Givers. While I love the existing information and backgrounds we have in 2E, a setting needs to be dynamic in order to both attract new players and maintain its current fan base. Really, nothing that has been released conflicts in any way with the previous vision of the factions...you can simply ignore Jeremo as the factol and put Ingwe back as the sectol if you want to run a pre-Faction War campaign. (It's not quite that easy with what I did to the Athar, but that's for another thread...) |
#7Shemeska_the_MarauderAug 18, 2003 23:54:39 | Good old Terrance getting mazed does put a chink into simply adding him back, besides with how you've changed the Athar around. Though I've fallen in love with what you've doen with them I will say. Been using Hobard and his current goals now as a subplot in my own campaign, it just happens to fit in smoothly with a plot of my own devising revolving around Aoskar's relationship with Fell, and Fell's protective nature towards the Shattered Temple after (in my campaign) the corpse of Aoskar was plundered with the Divinity Leech. |
#8zombiegleemaxAug 19, 2003 20:57:04 | Thank you bloods for the information, but there is a doubt remaining. What truly defines a faction? From what they all have in common, it can be said that they are philosophical groups. However, so are are the sects, and they are still classified as something different. As far as my knowledge goes, the difference between factions and sects was because the factions had their presence in the ruling body of Sigil. But that no longer holds true, since they have been expelled from the Cage. |
#9Shemeska_the_MarauderAug 19, 2003 22:49:22 | Likely size/membership, and influence within Sigil and the planes in general. The line has been blurred considerably however now post Faction War. |
#10zombiegleemaxAug 20, 2003 15:46:31 | Really, Faction War messed up everything. No two ways about it. I'm not saying all the changes are for the worse, I'm just saying that Sigil's complete overhaul has made a lot of things like this moot. |
#11Shemeska_the_MarauderAug 20, 2003 16:08:11 | Sorry you feel that way. Hopefully the guide to Sigil for 3e will meet your expectations, post FW or not. Got some interesting plots developing for the factions in and out of Sigil post FW. Have to say the Athar, the remnants of the Doomguard, and the Ring Givers have my own interest going. The faction writers all did a really good job. |
#12christuschristusAug 22, 2003 17:06:33 | Post-FW, things are a bit more of a blank slate. The dividing line between "sect" and "faction" is very blurry indeed. As time passes, other sects may muscle their way into the big leagues. A lot of them, however, don't really care about Sigil. They have their own power bases on other planes. Jeremo is fully ensconced in Sigil's politics. A couple of other sects were floated out as possibilities. The Ring-Givers are the only one that stuck. We had to focus on a small number of factions, just to move the project along. |