Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 18, 2003 14:42:41	So I just came back from vacation and reread the prism pentad. I am actually wondering if I finished it the first time I read it as I do not remember the last part at all! Anyways, I am now even more enamoured of the DS setting than ever. What now? Is there any source material that describes what happens to Athas after the pentad? What happens to the "freed" cities? What do the 3 SKs do (I notice the remaining ones all live near each other, so it makes sense they couldn't just swell their power to completely filly the void of the dead 4). I am not aware of any further novels in the line, but maybe there have been short stories or such that have expanded on it. And I finally can see why rain clerics could be pegged as a "destructive" cleric (like sun silt and magma) if they are gunning for a return to the blue age. A wipe civilization of the face of Athas approach. Rajaat would be proud.
#2 jon_oracle_of_athas Aug 18, 2003 15:10:41	The upcoming City-State of Draj accessory from athas.org details Draj in Free Year 11.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 5:50:33	Will be such accessories have info about the 'old' times (before the Prism Pentad) as well? As I know, a lot of people play Athas on that timeframe and disregard PP (they play the 'classic' Dark Sun we can say). Even if there won't be separate accessories for that period, maybe it would be good to include info about that. Okay, Draj doesn't changed too much, but in the case of other cities, especially the ones that lost its SK...
#4 jon_oracle_of_athas Aug 19, 2003 8:41:47	Obviously most of the material can be applied to campaigns predating Free Year 11. I usually start my campaigns in FY 1 myself.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 9:21:40	I think that the events of the decade of heroisim are a great backdrop to the campaign setting. I, personally, like starting my campaign a year before the fall of Kalak. That way the players see how messed up the world is, and the signficance of the events that are unfolding. Starting off with Kalak dead, or having Kalak die doesn't mean anything to players without the perspective on how powerful the monarchs are.
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 10:37:44	I still feel a bit in the dark about some things. Just where can I get more DS setting info? People speak of their being 4 SKs, but there were only 3 after the pentad. I heard somewhere about an avangion ruling one of the cities, when did that happen? And who the heck is Drenoth (sp?). Things like this. For that matter, where the heck did Pterrans come from, they were a surprise to see in the DS rules. I am not asking for you to answer these questions (unless you want to), just where did the information come from? Are there more novels? I have not seen them? Is it all from 2e source material? Is there a Athas chronology online like they have over at dragonlance.com? I feel out of the loop. I was hoping it was just stuff I had forgotten from the pentad, but sure enough it ends with just 3 SKs, the word avangion is never printed, and Pterrans (and aaracokra when it comes down to it) never make an appearance. Just wondering where the rest of this information comes from.
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 11:20:00	Originally posted by Xeros I still feel a bit in the dark about some things. Just where can I get more DS setting info? I heard somewhere about an avangion ruling one of the cities, when did that happen? And who the heck is Drenoth (sp?). Are there more novels? I have not seen them? Is it all from 2e source material? Is there a Athas chronology online like they have over at dragonlance.com? The SM's were: Kalak - Killed in PP1 Hamanu - Alive and well Ablach-Re - Killed in PP5 Lalai-Puy - Alive and well Nibenay - Alive and well Tektuctitlay - Crushed in PP5 Andropinous - Imprisoned for a LONG time in PP5 Kalid-Ma - Killed long ago before books Seilba - Killed by Hamanu long ago before books Dregoth - Ruler of Guistinal, killed, but not killed enough long ago. He was introduced in City by the Silt Sea Oronis - Alive and well not a Dragon anymore. He was introduced in Dark Sun Setting Boxed Set 2 Daskinor - Alive and paranoid as ever. He was introduced in Dark Sun Setting Boxed Set 2 Most of the questions that you have are answered in suppliments and boxed sets that came after the original boxed set. There were two other series of books. The Tribe of One series, that was interesting, but not really as gritty as the PP. I don't reccomend them unless you want to read everything. Then there was the Chronicles of Athas generally these were well written, but some of them really were liberal with the Athasian setting. Pterrans were in one of the DS monster manuals, but then made into a race in the second boxed set. Same with the Aaracorkra. There is indeed a chronology. I believe that athas.org has it listed. If not one of the sites linked to the website will have it. Any other questions? Edited some phrases and lists
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 11:58:53	What is "city by the silt sea"? More novels eh? I may have to read them, although it depends on just how liberal the second pentad is. My history is that I bought the original boxed set (all I have left is the map ), and read a few following sourcebooks in the store. I never found a group that liked it though, so I never got to play, and could not afford to buy further supplements. Now of course I just can't find any of those supplements. I could keep you occupied with hours with questions, but I am not going to put you through that. I deserve to do some of the research myself, I just need to find the material. Curse my local community for not loving this setting.:88E:
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 12:37:49	Originally posted by Xeros What is "city by the silt sea"? More novels eh? City by the Silt Sea is a boxed set. I don't know if WotC is still offering it up for purchase on the net or not. You might be able to find some retailers on-line that still have some in stock. Curse my local community for not loving this setting. Well that is the curse of many a DS lover. It is hard to find people who want to play in a world where there's a good chance they won't be the heroes.
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 12:46:41	My memory just flashed. I think I did read the tribe of one, or at least part of it. The protagonist...a woman if I remember...has some multiple personality thing going? At least one of the personalities was a nasty one called the shade or some such? My god, blast from the past.
#11 gab Aug 19, 2003 12:53:31	All supplements are available for download for 5$US at SV Games and RPG now. The protagonist from Tribe of One was a male elfling named Sorak. And yes, he had multiple personalities.
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 15:13:50	You evil person Can you recommend certain titles? I am chiefly interested in the fluff, not the rules. Setting information, details of the cities, the people, the cultures, etc... The rules will be fairly outdated by now anyways. I'm thinking DS revised city by the silt sea beyond the prism pentad. Though many of them probably have good information. Cool, thank you very much for the links, I will have to consider this carefully.
#13 Cyrian Aug 20, 2003 0:52:18	I'd also recommend The Ivory Triangle. It has details on Gulg and Nibenay. Veiled Alliance also has summaries of all the city states, things like culture and population and all that. You can usually find stuff for pretty cheap on Ebay too, if you don't want to just get the PDFs.
#14 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 5:11:22	For rounding out the fluff books for the setting, also try and find (either on ebay or through SVGames' pdf) Slave Tribes (introduces dozens of new villages for you to use), Elves of Athas (lotsa elf tribes), Thri-kreen of Athas (who like to eat the elf tribes), and Dune Trader (fleshes out the Merchant Houses), Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water, and the Complete Book of Gladiators, and the Valley of Dust and Fire. If you decide to go the ebay route, your going to probably end up paying double the original retail price. If you go through the electronic download, your looking at less than 65 bucks for all the basic fluff books (the above plus the Revised box, City by the Silt Sea, and Ivory Triangle). Not a bad way to go if you ask me considering the amount of material your purchasing (half a setting's product line for the price of two hardcover books). Later on you could also toss in Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs and Mind Lords of the Last Sea, but opinions vary as to the quality of these two books (personally, I loved the first one and hated the second).
#15 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 9:52:43	Originally posted by Xeros You evil person Can you recommend certain titles? I am chiefly interested in the fluff, not the rules. I'm thinking DS revised city by the silt sea beyond the prism pentad. Depends on what type of information you want. I would classify them into, great, average, and poor. Get the great stuff if you can, the average stuff if you want to flesh out the world, and leave the poor alone unless you're a completist. (only including campaign books, not rule books) Great: City by the Silt Sea, Ivory Triangle, Veiled Alliance, Thri-Kreen of Athas, Dune Trader Average: Elves of Athas, Valley of Dust and Fire, Slave Tribes, Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs, Mindlords of the Last Sea Poor: Tribe of One books, Beyond the Prism Pentad (actually not a bad book, just the info here is captured in other places) Hope this helps.
#16 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 10:46:19	Fantastic, I wil take it under advisement. Where does the revised main set fit into there, for fluff purposes only.
#17 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 11:07:46	Originally posted by Xeros Fantastic, I wil take it under advisement. Where does the revised main set fit into there, for fluff purposes only. For fluff and fluff only I would say it is average. The boxed set is pretty good, but the other suppliments contain most of what is in the boxed set. There are a few pieces that aren't covered in other places, but most of the information is elsewhere.
#18 zombiegleemax Aug 21, 2003 5:13:18	Does anybody has detailed information about the Pristine Tower?
#19 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 16:01:40	I actually just got done reading the Prism Pentad series and the Tribe of One / Sorak series. As you read these there are going to be several differences that you will notice , in the PP series Rkard is born of natural means and in the Tribe of One series it is said that muls are test tube babies and that all mothers of the mul die in the process . The Sorak series also states that Nibenay slays all his male born sons even though one of the most persistant antagonists in the 3rd PP book is one of Nibenay's sons. Considering how few books there where in the Darksun novels section you would think that they could get the info straight =( on a side note Sorak is still one of my favorite characters besides Elric of Melnibone and Zifnab from the deathgate cycle by wise and hickman IF you decide to read the Chronicles of athas series i hope you like Hamanu , cuz 4/5 books in that series concern him or his city so you will have alot of insight to his realm.
#20 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 8:27:45	He could slay all his sons, except his one favorite from the pentad. That's not really a contradiction The mul thing, yeah, that's a contradiction. I favour the "mother often dies, but not always" view. Neeva was a big lass, strong healthy, and not a small woman. I think she could take it.
#21 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 11:17:11	Despite the contradictions in the books. All of the Tribe of one books are excellent, just don't trust everyt thing you read in it. The Chronicles of Athas are really good also. Three of the books tell the story of Pavek a templar from Urik, and have Hamanu as a main player. The other books are good but unrelated. One is a contiuation of the Tribe of One series, and the last is stand alone. Can't remember what order they came out, but they are worth the read. Treat the PP as canon. Any info contradicting those five books is wrong and should likely be ignored. The info in the source books can be just as misleading (Psionic Artifacts of Athas is terrible as far as continuity), so again watch out. Some of the later stuff was silly like Mind Lords, but all of the sourcebooks have some good ideas and concepts in them. Definitely worth the $5 to get in PDF format.
#22 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 13:30:16	Originally posted by Cerberysumbralthane Considering how few books there where in the Darksun novels section you would think that they could get the info straight =( I think that you stole that quote from me sometime in the past. :D Considering that they came out with a book / suppliment once every two or three months you would think that there would have been some consistency between them. Those are my thoughts on the books as well. Tribe of One wasn't really all that well written, and it was just very inconsistent. I suppose the story wasn't gawd awful, but it wasn't great. Oh and one thing to stay clear of: the adventure Forest Maker. What a stinker that was.
#23 heretic_apostate Aug 26, 2003 22:43:12	With regard to the novels, keep in mind, at that time the TSR Games department was often not on speaking terms with the TSR Novels department. So don't blame the authors for inconsistencies, since most likely the Games department didn't answer their questions.
#24 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 15:55:21	Originally posted by Quarion Hamanu - Alive and well Edited some phrases and lists [/b] Didn't Hamanu die/sacrifice himself in the conclusion of the series where his Templar became a druid?
#25 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 22:37:22	Didn't Hamanu die/sacrifice himself in the conclusion of the series where his Templar became a druid? Errr . . . it was all just a dream you had *waves hands about slowly* you can wake up now . . . you remember nothing from your dream about Hamanu becoming a dragon . . . just a dream . . .
#26 Pennarin Aug 29, 2003 3:18:09	Hamanu's apparent death is by the way set some 5 to 10 years in the future of the last PP novel, perhaps even after FY10. There were some clues I don't recall but that convinced me nontheless. When he's cleansed of Rajaat's curse by the guardian of Athas, that is explained as the only force (I suppose outside of the unwilling Rajaat) that can effect the curse. The curse is the self-accelerating transformation into a dragon. As a champion, you quicken too much sorcery or channel too much dark lens magic and your metamorphosis accelerates. Neat. The process seems different than for an ordinary fledgling dragon (i.e. one that as cast the dragon metamorphosis spell and was a mortal man up to that time), which requires casting of a series of epic spells in (a long) succession. Brax had developped wonderfull prototypes of these at the following thread. http://archivedboards.wizards.com/community/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=212;t=000985 On the Old and New DSBoards there have been numerous philosophical discussions on the nature of champions vs ordinary fledgling dragons. You might find these talks enlightening, or at the least entertaining. On the job on sundays I have hours to think on the subject. Some thoughts are as follow: -Rajaat creates champions -Champions explore their own nature to reveale a two part creation: one part champion and one part what we could call Rajaat's curse. It is the self-accelerating transformation into a dragon and it is inevitable, beyond their ability to tamper with, as Hamanu discovers years after is transformation. -Some scholary champion(s) codifies is own magical nature. Follows an adaptation of Rajaat's curse into a spell format to transform one-self into a dragon. This flawed or bastard version is fuelled in increments, as opposed to by the use of any form of magic. The result is a man with limited effects of the curse but without the status of champion (see above mentionned philosophical discussions on their nature). Ex.: Farclunn. -Keltis's breakthrought (and this is pure visuallisation): the understanding that within Rajaat's curse, one of two parts of a champion, is a dragon seed, the template from wich the curse grows. Keltis elaborates an epic spell to switch seeds, a 'seed exchange' epic spell. Knowing he can't reverse or ultimatly stop the course of the curse he conceves of a state of being he strives to become in this reformed life of his. An avangion. He uses the spell created with the help of a preserving adept (preserver in 2nd DS and druid in 3rd DS) to switch the seeds and sees himself becoming more of an avangion than a dragon with each king's age until we see him as he his today. What is neat is that he still as his champion part and the curse part, wich allows him to accelerate his metamorphosis through the use of any form of magic. -Keltis, in a hypothesised desire to spread this new transformation, or as an answer to querries of powerfull preservers seeking is help, adapts the dragon metamorphosis spell into an avangion version by simply isolating the dragon seed in the arcane formula and replacing it with the new avangion seed. The result is a man with limited effects of the curse but without the status of champion. Ex.: Nerad, Korgunard, Amiska.
#27 flip Aug 29, 2003 9:16:22	Originally posted by Pennarin Hamanu's apparent death is by the way set some 5 to 10 years in the future of the last PP novel, perhaps even after FY10. Free Year 17.
#28 Pennarin Aug 29, 2003 11:52:11	Originally posted by flip Free Year 17. Thanks