Do Wizards have to... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Do Wizards have to...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 19, 2003 21:53:37 I know they have to take a test once they reach a certain level, but do they have to take the PrC asscociated with where they took their test? Like The Wizards of High Sorcery?
#2
cam_banks
Aug 19, 2003 22:13:34 There's only one Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, and it's the one you begin advancing in once you've passed the Test. Your choice in alignment determines certain aspects of the class for your character, but that's the only real difference. Where you took the Test has no bearing on it.

It should also be noted that you may continue to advance in the core wizard class once you've passed the Test. At some point, you have to - the PrC is only 10 levels, so once you reach the end of it you'll only have wizard levels to continue advancing in.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
sweetmeats
Aug 20, 2003 6:21:34 Once a wizard passes his test, is he required to take the WohS class or cna he continue in just wizard? I guess it depends on how deeply integrated the mage wants to be within the Orders.
#4
cam_banks
Aug 20, 2003 7:48:45 If the wizard meets the requirements, then he should at least take one level the next time he's got the XP to advance. If he doesn't meet the requirements, he should make an effort to do so but continue to advance as a wizard in the meantime.

Taking that first level of Wizard of High Sorcery unlocks a number of benefits - the moons begin to affect you, you get access to WoHS resources, and you gain enhanced specialization. It's actually a very good idea to advance in the PrC given the number of useful abilities you get from it, but for some things (such as the wizard's familiar, bonus feats from the wizard class, etc) you'll still want actual wizard levels.

And yes, you read that right - Wizards of High Sorcery don't end up with powerful familiars. A familiar's bonus abilities and development are based on the character's combined class levels in classes that grant familiars, and the WoHS PrC doesn't. So, if you want to ensure that the familiar you may have acquired continues to get better, take wizard levels every once in a while.

This actually jibes with the books, I should note. Many WoHS (including Raistlin, Palin and Dalamar) don't seem to have any time for familiars, even though the existence of them is known.

Cheers,
Cam
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2003 9:05:53
Originally posted by Cam Banks

It should also be noted that you may continue to advance in the core wizard class once you've passed the Test. At some point, you have to - the PrC is only 10 levels, so once you reach the end of it you'll only have wizard levels to continue advancing in.

Cheers,
Cam

However this has very little bearing. The epic level handbook nicely illustrates how to make epic progressions for 10 level prestige classes.
#6
cam_banks
Aug 20, 2003 9:38:59
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
However this has very little bearing. The epic level handbook nicely illustrates how to make epic progressions for 10 level prestige classes.

That's if you're an epic level character. If you've got 10 levels in Wizard of High Sorcery and 5 in wizard, you're not able to get those epic levels in Wizard of High Sorcery until your character level is 20+.

Cheers,
Cam
#7
brimstone
Aug 20, 2003 11:06:10
Originally posted by Cam Banks
If the wizard...

...existence of them is known.

Uh...that's Cam's way of saying, "No, you don't have to take a level in the prestige class after you pass the Test."

But...I would advise against not taking them. They're quite powerful, and worth the loss of the extra meta-magic feats, IMHO.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2003 15:27:20 But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5.
#9
brimstone
Aug 20, 2003 15:41:34
Originally posted by Gellion
But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5.

Personally...I think it's better.

There is the rare occasion you could trade one for one...but usually it was one for two or 3 or even four.

And besides...you don't have to specialize to get the WoHS PrC.
#10
iltharanos
Aug 21, 2003 0:15:44
Originally posted by Cam Banks
That's if you're an epic level character. If you've got 10 levels in Wizard of High Sorcery and 5 in wizard, you're not able to get those epic levels in Wizard of High Sorcery until your character level is 20+.

Cheers,
Cam

Couldn't this same lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 wiz of high sor take levels of another class, like fighter? Or is there a restriction against multiclassing into non-wiz classes for wizzes of high sorcery?
#11
cam_banks
Aug 21, 2003 7:59:54
Originally posted by iltharanos
Couldn't this same lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 wiz of high sor take levels of another class, like fighter? Or is there a restriction against multiclassing into non-wiz classes for wizzes of high sorcery?

No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine.

You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example.

Cheers,
Cam
#12
daedavias_dup
Aug 21, 2003 11:14:47
Originally posted by Cam Banks
No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine.

You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example.

Cheers,
Cam

Look at the War Mage, they can wear armor and are not considered renegades(since they can still progress in WoHS). If anyone were to take tradition and throw it out the window, it is probably going to be Dalamar.
#13
Dragonhelm
Aug 21, 2003 11:29:59
Originally posted by Daedavias
Look at the War Mage, they can wear armor and are not considered renegades(since they can still progress in WoHS). If anyone were to take tradition and throw it out the window, it is probably going to be Dalamar.

The War Mage prestige class is a nice catch-all for those arcane spellcasters who use their magic in battle. It can probably be best used by the Thorn Knights (since the armored spellcasting ability stacks), although it is also great for other spellcasting classes as well.

Your average WoHS wouldn't wear armor, no. Those trained as War Mages would, although I would think they would keep it to a minimum.

I sometimes get the impression that some people think the WoHS will throw you out and brand you a renegade for every single infraction. The WoHS are not going to throw you out for wearing armor, although they may look at you funny.

Remember, so long as you are dedicated to the magic, that's what matters.
#14
Dragonhelm
Aug 21, 2003 11:33:56
Originally posted by Gellion
But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5.

Then play a "generalist wizard", as presented in Age of Mortals. You don't get the benefit of enhanced specialization from the WoHS PrC, but you do get a wide range of spells.
#15
banshee
Sep 22, 2003 21:17:39
Originally posted by Cam Banks
If the wizard meets the requirements, then he should at least take one level the next time he's got the XP to advance. If he doesn't meet the requirements, he should make an effort to do so but continue to advance as a wizard in the meantime.

Taking that first level of Wizard of High Sorcery unlocks a number of benefits - the moons begin to affect you, you get access to WoHS resources, and you gain enhanced specialization. It's actually a very good idea to advance in the PrC given the number of useful abilities you get from it, but for some things (such as the wizard's familiar, bonus feats from the wizard class, etc) you'll still want actual wizard levels.

And yes, you read that right - Wizards of High Sorcery don't end up with powerful familiars. A familiar's bonus abilities and development are based on the character's combined class levels in classes that grant familiars, and the WoHS PrC doesn't. So, if you want to ensure that the familiar you may have acquired continues to get better, take wizard levels every once in a while.

This actually jibes with the books, I should note. Many WoHS (including Raistlin, Palin and Dalamar) don't seem to have any time for familiars, even though the existence of them is known.

Cheers,
Cam

So wizards are supposed to take the WoHS class after the Test? Is there any way for a wizard to be a specialist in a school *other* than those supported by his order?

I've got a white robed transmuter from 2nd Ed. that I wanted to convert. Does that means I have to change her entire character idea and make her either an abjurer, a diviner, or change her alignment, and make her a red robe?

I know that AoM is supposed to have options for generalist wizards of high sorcery...is there anything similar for specialists of the wrong school?

Banshee
#16
banshee
Sep 22, 2003 21:19:30
Originally posted by Cam Banks
No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine.

You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example.

Cheers,
Cam

What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example.....so they would likely have armor (leather or light chainmail) and swords...

Banshee
#17
zombiegleemax
Sep 22, 2003 22:35:47
Originally posted by Gellion
I know they have to take a test once they reach a certain level, but do they have to take the PrC asscociated with where they took their test? Like The Wizards of High Sorcery?

To answer your question briefly, No you don't have to take the prestige class. The test is a pre-requisite for the PrC, but nowhere does it say to must adopt the PrC.
#18
zombiegleemax
Sep 22, 2003 23:35:22 yes, you do, according to the information under high sorcery, I think in the DCLS, but I don't have the book in front of me. I am almost possitive it says that once you pass the test you AUTOMATICALLY gain the first level of the PrC. Doesn't seem like much room for option to me.
#19
zombiegleemax
Sep 22, 2003 23:38:51
Originally posted by Banshee
What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example.....

Gil wasn't really big on the whole magic thing, he never even took his Test...
#20
cam_banks
Sep 22, 2003 23:46:02
Originally posted by Banshee
So wizards are supposed to take the WoHS class after the Test? Is there any way for a wizard to be a specialist in a school *other* than those supported by his order?

Not if you go by the DLCS. However, see below.

I've got a white robed transmuter from 2nd Ed. that I wanted to convert. Does that means I have to change her entire character idea and make her either an abjurer, a diviner, or change her alignment, and make her a red robe?

The generalist wizard option in the Age of Mortals companion allows you to ignore the specialization requirement of the WoHS prestige class. You do not gain the benefits of Enhanced Specialization, however. Lifting the requirement doesn't rule out other kinds of specialists - if you want to play a White Robe transmuter, go ahead. You might decide that for flavor purposes three schools are prohibited by alignment, though - I would recommend that only good wizards could specialize in abjuration, neutral wizards in illusion, and evil wizards in necromancy.

Cheers,
Cam
#21
cam_banks
Sep 22, 2003 23:48:15
Originally posted by Winterknight
yes, you do, according to the information under high sorcery, I think in the DCLS, but I don't have the book in front of me. I am almost possitive it says that once you pass the test you AUTOMATICALLY gain the first level of the PrC. Doesn't seem like much room for option to me.

Nothing can make you gain a level in a class if you don't meet the requirements, including not having enough XP to advance a level. The expectation is that every wizard who passes the Test will take Wizard of High Sorcery as their next level, once they meet the requirements and have enough XP. Sensible DMs will encourage players to meet the requirements before they even take the Test, to make the process as smooth as possible.

Cheers,
Cam
#22
cam_banks
Sep 22, 2003 23:50:21
Originally posted by Banshee
What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example.....so they would likely have armor (leather or light chainmail) and swords...

Such characters in elven society would remain dabblers like Gilthanas, low-level wizards who use their 1st-level and 2nd-level spells to support their martial training. They're outside the authority of the Orders, won't advance far enough that they're required to take the Test, and therefore can wear armor and bear weapons as they like.

Cheers,
Cam
#23
true_blue
Sep 23, 2003 0:50:58 IIRC, Arakias took the Test, but was wearing armor when Tanis walked up to him. He was using his own magic to shield himself and then Raistlin blasted it.
#24
josephkell
Sep 23, 2003 2:00:42
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
Gil wasn't really big on the whole magic thing, he never even took his Test...

And not to mention that he never passed 4th level of Wizard... So he wasn't required to take the Test.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 19, 2003 21:53:37	I know they have to take a test once they reach a certain level, but do they have to take the PrC asscociated with where they took their test? Like The Wizards of High Sorcery?
#2 cam_banks Aug 19, 2003 22:13:34	There's only one Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, and it's the one you begin advancing in once you've passed the Test. Your choice in alignment determines certain aspects of the class for your character, but that's the only real difference. Where you took the Test has no bearing on it. It should also be noted that you may continue to advance in the core wizard class once you've passed the Test. At some point, you have to - the PrC is only 10 levels, so once you reach the end of it you'll only have wizard levels to continue advancing in. Cheers, Cam
#3 sweetmeats Aug 20, 2003 6:21:34	Once a wizard passes his test, is he required to take the WohS class or cna he continue in just wizard? I guess it depends on how deeply integrated the mage wants to be within the Orders.
#4 cam_banks Aug 20, 2003 7:48:45	If the wizard meets the requirements, then he should at least take one level the next time he's got the XP to advance. If he doesn't meet the requirements, he should make an effort to do so but continue to advance as a wizard in the meantime. Taking that first level of Wizard of High Sorcery unlocks a number of benefits - the moons begin to affect you, you get access to WoHS resources, and you gain enhanced specialization. It's actually a very good idea to advance in the PrC given the number of useful abilities you get from it, but for some things (such as the wizard's familiar, bonus feats from the wizard class, etc) you'll still want actual wizard levels. And yes, you read that right - Wizards of High Sorcery don't end up with powerful familiars. A familiar's bonus abilities and development are based on the character's combined class levels in classes that grant familiars, and the WoHS PrC doesn't. So, if you want to ensure that the familiar you may have acquired continues to get better, take wizard levels every once in a while. This actually jibes with the books, I should note. Many WoHS (including Raistlin, Palin and Dalamar) don't seem to have any time for familiars, even though the existence of them is known. Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 9:05:53	Originally posted by Cam Banks It should also be noted that you may continue to advance in the core wizard class once you've passed the Test. At some point, you have to - the PrC is only 10 levels, so once you reach the end of it you'll only have wizard levels to continue advancing in. Cheers, Cam However this has very little bearing. The epic level handbook nicely illustrates how to make epic progressions for 10 level prestige classes.
#6 cam_banks Aug 20, 2003 9:38:59	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst However this has very little bearing. The epic level handbook nicely illustrates how to make epic progressions for 10 level prestige classes. That's if you're an epic level character. If you've got 10 levels in Wizard of High Sorcery and 5 in wizard, you're not able to get those epic levels in Wizard of High Sorcery until your character level is 20+. Cheers, Cam
#7 brimstone Aug 20, 2003 11:06:10	Originally posted by Cam Banks If the wizard... ...existence of them is known. Uh...that's Cam's way of saying, "No, you don't have to take a level in the prestige class after you pass the Test." But...I would advise against not taking them. They're quite powerful, and worth the loss of the extra meta-magic feats, IMHO.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2003 15:27:20	But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5.
#9 brimstone Aug 20, 2003 15:41:34	Originally posted by Gellion But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5. Personally...I think it's better. There is the rare occasion you could trade one for one...but usually it was one for two or 3 or even four. And besides...you don't have to specialize to get the WoHS PrC.
#10 iltharanos Aug 21, 2003 0:15:44	Originally posted by Cam Banks That's if you're an epic level character. If you've got 10 levels in Wizard of High Sorcery and 5 in wizard, you're not able to get those epic levels in Wizard of High Sorcery until your character level is 20+. Cheers, Cam Couldn't this same lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 wiz of high sor take levels of another class, like fighter? Or is there a restriction against multiclassing into non-wiz classes for wizzes of high sorcery?
#11 cam_banks Aug 21, 2003 7:59:54	Originally posted by iltharanos Couldn't this same lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 wiz of high sor take levels of another class, like fighter? Or is there a restriction against multiclassing into non-wiz classes for wizzes of high sorcery? No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine. You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example. Cheers, Cam
#12 daedavias_dup Aug 21, 2003 11:14:47	Originally posted by Cam Banks No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine. You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example. Cheers, Cam Look at the War Mage, they can wear armor and are not considered renegades(since they can still progress in WoHS). If anyone were to take tradition and throw it out the window, it is probably going to be Dalamar.
#13 Dragonhelm Aug 21, 2003 11:29:59	Originally posted by Daedavias Look at the War Mage, they can wear armor and are not considered renegades(since they can still progress in WoHS). If anyone were to take tradition and throw it out the window, it is probably going to be Dalamar. The War Mage prestige class is a nice catch-all for those arcane spellcasters who use their magic in battle. It can probably be best used by the Thorn Knights (since the armored spellcasting ability stacks), although it is also great for other spellcasting classes as well. Your average WoHS wouldn't wear armor, no. Those trained as War Mages would, although I would think they would keep it to a minimum. I sometimes get the impression that some people think the WoHS will throw you out and brand you a renegade for every single infraction. The WoHS are not going to throw you out for wearing armor, although they may look at you funny. Remember, so long as you are dedicated to the magic, that's what matters.
#14 Dragonhelm Aug 21, 2003 11:33:56	Originally posted by Gellion But from what it sounds like i have to speacilize, and speacilization sucks in 3.5. Then play a "generalist wizard", as presented in Age of Mortals. You don't get the benefit of enhanced specialization from the WoHS PrC, but you do get a wide range of spells.
#15 banshee Sep 22, 2003 21:17:39	Originally posted by Cam Banks If the wizard meets the requirements, then he should at least take one level the next time he's got the XP to advance. If he doesn't meet the requirements, he should make an effort to do so but continue to advance as a wizard in the meantime. Taking that first level of Wizard of High Sorcery unlocks a number of benefits - the moons begin to affect you, you get access to WoHS resources, and you gain enhanced specialization. It's actually a very good idea to advance in the PrC given the number of useful abilities you get from it, but for some things (such as the wizard's familiar, bonus feats from the wizard class, etc) you'll still want actual wizard levels. And yes, you read that right - Wizards of High Sorcery don't end up with powerful familiars. A familiar's bonus abilities and development are based on the character's combined class levels in classes that grant familiars, and the WoHS PrC doesn't. So, if you want to ensure that the familiar you may have acquired continues to get better, take wizard levels every once in a while. This actually jibes with the books, I should note. Many WoHS (including Raistlin, Palin and Dalamar) don't seem to have any time for familiars, even though the existence of them is known. Cheers, Cam So wizards are supposed to take the WoHS class after the Test? Is there any way for a wizard to be a specialist in a school other than those supported by his order? I've got a white robed transmuter from 2nd Ed. that I wanted to convert. Does that means I have to change her entire character idea and make her either an abjurer, a diviner, or change her alignment, and make her a red robe? I know that AoM is supposed to have options for generalist wizards of high sorcery...is there anything similar for specialists of the wrong school? Banshee
#16 banshee Sep 22, 2003 21:19:30	Originally posted by Cam Banks No such restriction is in place, no. So, yeah, you could take fighter levels or rogue levels. You can't take cleric or druid levels (since that would mean you're devoted to two gods, which is a no-no) or bard or sorcerer levels (since that's wild magic, and you can't have both kinds of magic) but the other classes are fine. You lose the benefits of the WoHS if you break the vows of the Conclave or refuse to answer their summons, which makes you a renegade. You would probably be best not to suddenly walk around with a greatsword and plate armor, for example. Cheers, Cam What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example.....so they would likely have armor (leather or light chainmail) and swords... Banshee
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 22, 2003 22:35:47	Originally posted by Gellion I know they have to take a test once they reach a certain level, but do they have to take the PrC asscociated with where they took their test? Like The Wizards of High Sorcery? To answer your question briefly, No you don't have to take the prestige class. The test is a pre-requisite for the PrC, but nowhere does it say to must adopt the PrC.
#18 zombiegleemax Sep 22, 2003 23:35:22	yes, you do, according to the information under high sorcery, I think in the DCLS, but I don't have the book in front of me. I am almost possitive it says that once you pass the test you AUTOMATICALLY gain the first level of the PrC. Doesn't seem like much room for option to me.
#19 zombiegleemax Sep 22, 2003 23:38:51	Originally posted by Banshee What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example..... Gil wasn't really big on the whole magic thing, he never even took his Test...
#20 cam_banks Sep 22, 2003 23:46:02	Originally posted by Banshee *So wizards are supposed to take the WoHS class after the Test? Is there any way for a wizard to be a specialist in a school other* than those supported by his order?** Not if you go by the DLCS. However, see below. I've got a white robed transmuter from 2nd Ed. that I wanted to convert. Does that means I have to change her entire character idea and make her either an abjurer, a diviner, or change her alignment, and make her a red robe? The generalist wizard option in the Age of Mortals companion allows you to ignore the specialization requirement of the WoHS prestige class. You do not gain the benefits of Enhanced Specialization, however. Lifting the requirement doesn't rule out other kinds of specialists - if you want to play a White Robe transmuter, go ahead. You might decide that for flavor purposes three schools are prohibited by alignment, though - I would recommend that only good wizards could specialize in abjuration, neutral wizards in illusion, and evil wizards in necromancy. Cheers, Cam
#21 cam_banks Sep 22, 2003 23:48:15	Originally posted by Winterknight yes, you do, according to the information under high sorcery, I think in the DCLS, but I don't have the book in front of me. I am almost possitive it says that once you pass the test you AUTOMATICALLY gain the first level of the PrC. Doesn't seem like much room for option to me. Nothing can make you gain a level in a class if you don't meet the requirements, including not having enough XP to advance a level. The expectation is that every wizard who passes the Test will take Wizard of High Sorcery as their next level, once they meet the requirements and have enough XP. Sensible DMs will encourage players to meet the requirements before they even take the Test, to make the process as smooth as possible. Cheers, Cam
#22 cam_banks Sep 22, 2003 23:50:21	Originally posted by Banshee What about elven fighter/magi? They are fairly common in that society, Gilthanas being an example.....so they would likely have armor (leather or light chainmail) and swords... Such characters in elven society would remain dabblers like Gilthanas, low-level wizards who use their 1st-level and 2nd-level spells to support their martial training. They're outside the authority of the Orders, won't advance far enough that they're required to take the Test, and therefore can wear armor and bear weapons as they like. Cheers, Cam
#23 true_blue Sep 23, 2003 0:50:58	IIRC, Arakias took the Test, but was wearing armor when Tanis walked up to him. He was using his own magic to shield himself and then Raistlin blasted it.
#24 josephkell Sep 23, 2003 2:00:42	Originally posted by Apocalyp$e Gil wasn't really big on the whole magic thing, he never even took his Test... And not to mention that he never passed 4th level of Wizard... So he wasn't required to take the Test.