According to the rules for Advanced Dragons in the Epic Level Handbook , Beryl, who has 47 HD has 3 "virtual" age categories beyond a great wyrm green dragon. Every additional 3 HD beyond great wyrm equals one "virtual" age category.
CR increases by 2 for each additional age category. Beryl should therefore have a CR of 30. Her's is listed as 26.
Beryl should have a 48 AC (this takes into account her increase to colossal size and increase in natural armor from that of a great wyrm green dragon). Her's is listed as 38.
Beryl should have a space/reach of 30 ft./20 ft. (bite 30 ft.). Her's uses the 3.0 face/reach.
Beryl should have DR 30/epic. Her's is listed using the old 3.0 DR of DR 30/+4 (Interestingly, the CR 40 sample advanced red dragon in the revised Epic Level Handbook has DR 15/epic. This leads me to believe that Beryl's DR should be the same or even lower at DR 10/epic, and that the other Dragon Overlords such as Malys, Skie, and Sable should have correspondingly lower damage reduction stats.)
Beryl should cast spells as a 23rd level sorcerer. She does not have a caster level listing. (This brings up another question. The Epic Level Handbook states that advanced dragons get the Improved Spell Capacity feat every 3 levels beyond caster level 20. The stats for Skie and Malys in Game Trade Magazine list their respective caster levels as 27 and 33. Yet they do not have any Improved Spell Capacity feats. Was this a mistake? Or are these feats unavailable in Dragonlance? I don't see a problem with the Improved Spell Capacity feat ... if it were Epic Spellcasting, then yes there'd be a problem as Epic Spells are seriously overpowered.)
Originally posted by iltharanos
Beryl's stats on pp. 273-274 are screwy.
Yeah, they're a little off, but considering the number of revisions 3.5 went through before it was released, expect certain glitches in WOTC product on occasion (rules for DR weren't finalized until really close to release). I noticed one element which could be addressed, though:
[b]Beryl should have DR 30/epic. Her's is listed using the old 3.0 DR of DR 30/+4 (Interestingly, the CR 40 sample advanced red dragon in the revised Epic Level Handbook has DR 15/epic. This leads me to believe that Beryl's DR should be the same or even lower at DR 10/epic, and that the other Dragon Overlords such as Malys, Skie, and Sable should have correspondingly lower damage reduction stats.)
If I'm reading the D& 3.5 Accessory Update booklet correctly, the transition to epic level DR drops the DR number by 15. So, feel free to drop DR 30/epic to DR 15/epic. All of the dragon overlords who have epic DR would also be able to penetrate epic DR with their own natural weapons, too.
There is no revised Epic Level Handbook, I should point out, although there is epic level content in the 3.5 DMG. Not sure what you were referring to, there, unless it's the 3.5 Accessory Update booklet.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Yeah, they're a little off, but considering the number of revisions 3.5 went through before it was released, expect certain glitches in WOTC product on occasion (rules for DR weren't finalized until really close to release). I noticed one element which could be addressed, though:
If I'm reading the D& 3.5 Accessory Update booklet correctly, the transition to epic level DR drops the DR number by 15. So, feel free to drop DR 30/epic to DR 15/epic. All of the dragon overlords who have epic DR would also be able to penetrate epic DR with their own natural weapons, too.
There is no revised Epic Level Handbook, I should point out, although there is epic level content in the 3.5 DMG. Not sure what you were referring to, there, unless it's the 3.5 Accessory Update booklet.
Cheers,
Cam
I was referring to the Accessory Update Booklet's section on the Epic Level Handbook, which is the closest we have to a revised Epic Level Handbook. ;)
I'm likely to reduce the DRs of the dragon overlords with epic damage reduction. Those *******es are tough enough as it is without numbers like 35 before that slash!
Originally posted by iltharanos
I'm likely to reduce the DRs of the dragon overlords with epic damage reduction. Those *******es are tough enough as it is without numbers like 35 before that slash!
In that case, drop the DR by 15 and you're good to go:
Malystryx: DR 20/epic
Khellendros: DR 15/epic
Beryllinthranox: DR 15/epic
Onysablet: DR 15/epic
Cheers,
Cam
I'm one of those that isnt particularly enthused with replacing all my 3.0 books so quickly, and 3.5 only has a small number of improvements then genuinely seem needed IMHO.
See...this is why I avoided the Epic Level Handbook.
But, if everyone is in concurance with what ilthanaros says...I will add these changes.
Draconian traits are listed on p. 215 including blindsense 60ft., darkvision 120ft., and scent 60ft. However, the Baaz and Kapak entries on pp. 34-36 do not have blindsense or scent, and have darkvision 60ft.
Baaz' bite damage is listed as 1d4 on p. 35, but 1d3 on p. 217.
Baaz' natural armor is listed as +2 on p. 35, but +3 on p. 217.
Kapaks get a +8 racial bonus to Move Silently on p. 220 but that is not listed among the Kapak stats on pp. 36-37.
EDITED as I find more stuff.
The second one I noticed...but I had no idea which one was right. Maybe we should ask the Bestiary folk.
Originally posted by Kai Lord
I just flipped through the DLCS, but in the Death Knight template it states that Death Knights with 13 or more Hit Dice can cast certain Power Word spells...and then goes on to say that DK's with 12 or less HD can cast Power Word Blind.
Yeah...I took care of that in the errata, it's entry #73.
Originally posted by Halabis
I was looking at the Aurak stats and I noticed they didnt list the alternate stats for the females. Did they retcon females to be just like the males, or did I just miss the +10 to intuit direction (I know I read that the females have it somewhere). Also, I thought that female Auraks cast as 4th level sorcerers, but no mention is made of that in the book that I can find. Was that changed or was it just left out?
That's a question that will have to be answered by the Sov Press guys. Most of the rules stuff will...for I have no reference to start with on most of the rules stuff.
Originally posted by Halabis
I was looking at the Aurak stats and I noticed they didnt list the alternate stats for the females. Did they retcon females to be just like the males, or did I just miss the +10 to intuit direction (I know I read that the females have it somewhere). Also, I thought that female Auraks cast as 4th level sorcerers, but no mention is made of that in the book that I can find. Was that changed or was it just left out?
Well, the +10 Intuit Direction was in the back of the novel Draconian Measures, but that was for 3.0. They've made changes to their stats since then ... so who knows (oh yeah, they do).
Cam (or one of the other rules guys) could you check into what Shugi pointed out above? Which is correct? Or does no one know?
Thanks!
Originally posted by Brimstone
Hey guys...I'm getting ready to update the DLCS errata (there have been like 12 additions or so) and we havne't received anymore for a while, so I thought this was a good time.
Cam (or one of the other rules guys) could you check into what Shugi pointed out above? Which is correct? Or does no one know?
Thanks!
Following the rules guidelines laid out for what source takes precedence, the actual PC writeouts of the draconians in the PC section in the beginning of the book trumps any information pertaining to those draconians written in the monster stat block of the book.
Re: Dargonesti,
They seem fine at a +1 level adjustment.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Re: Dargonesti,
They seem fine at a +1 level adjustment.
They do...but they seem a lot more powerful (extra abilities and stuff) that the Dimernesti don't have...and the Dims are also a +1.
On the Drac stuff...so does that mean the Monster stats should be changed to match the PC stats...or is it okay that they're different?
Originally posted by Brimstone
On the Drac stuff...so does that mean the Monster stats should be changed to match the PC stats...or is it okay that they're different?
They really should be the same. The real crux of the problem, apart from the differences in bite/claw damage etc, is that draconians have the dragon type but they aren't true dragons. Thus, they should have darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, and immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects. They don't get blindsense or other true dragon traits. I think the racial stats make this clear but the monster stats don't.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Brimstone
They do...but they seem a lot more powerful (extra abilities and stuff) that the Dimernesti don't have...and the Dims are also a +1.
True, but the Dargonesti also have a more punishing surface sensitivity than the Dimernesti.
On the Drac stuff...so does that mean the Monster stats should be changed to match the PC stats...or is it okay that they're different?
I would say so.
EDIT: I would say so ... that the Monster stats should reflect the PC stats.
Update coming soon!
(I think it should actually be v2.0 and not v1.1, though, since I'm actually adding too it, and not just changing things I already had, right?)
Originally posted by iltharanos
Beryl's stats on pp. 273-274 are screwy.
I don't suppose you happened to notice whether or not Onysablet, Malystryx, Bryneseldimer, and Khellendros' stats were correct in the AoM book did you? Or do they have similar hiccups?
(sorry...all the knowledge I have about Epic Level dragons comes from the AoM book...and if it doesn't jive with 3.5e for one reason or another, I'm screwed)
Originally posted by Daedavias
Now, doesn't Pyro control the northern part of Sancrist, not Sanction?
You have got to be kidding me!!!
Well...looks like I can no longer make any comments about the editing process. I probably read that thing meticulously...5 or 6 times before I sent it to the Nexus...and another several times in the past week while recompiling all this info, and I never saw this.
I'm so ashamed.
It's changed. (on mine...the problem will still be online for another day or so) Thanks, bud!
Originally posted by Daedavias
Well, at first I was like, "Pyro has that good of a network, and he is insane? Make the other dragons go nuts too, it seems to be good for them!"
Nope...I just dropped the ball on that one.
Originally posted by Brimstone
I don't suppose you happened to notice whether or not Onysablet, Malystryx, Bryneseldimer, and Khellendros' stats were correct in the AoM book did you? Or do they have similar hiccups?
(sorry...all the knowledge I have about Epic Level dragons comes from the AoM book...and if it doesn't jive with 3.5e for one reason or another, I'm screwed)
The only area concerning epic dragon advancement rules where AoM varies from the Draconomicon (where we see the latest rules on such epic dragon advancement) is in the Damage Reduction category. AoM has roughly twice the Damage Reduction value listed in its rule set versus the Draconomicon rule set.
The only true internal rules inconsistency I noticed with the above epic dragons in the AoM book (with the exception of Brine, who is not per se an epic level dragon) is that Khellendros and Malys are missing their bonus Improved Spell Capacity feats. Khellendros should have 2 Improved Spell Capacity feats and Malys should have 4. As a result, both of their spells per day should be modified upwards.