alignment question... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

alignment question...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 24, 2003 20:34:14 Under the requirments for a Red Robed WoHS it lists the alignment as "any neutral."

My question is, does that mean only the second part of the alignment (ie: chaotic-neutral, neutral, lawful-neutral) or does that also include neutral-evil and neutral-good? I'm of the mind that it means ANY alignment with the word neutral in it.

And, generally, this is a question that applies to any prestige class with an alignment restriction but the WoHS was a good example. Thanks for the help.
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 24, 2003 20:47:10 Vader, I took it to mean the second part of the alignment being neutral as in 'any (ie: lawful or chaotic) nuetral.
I think this is because a Wizard of High Sorcery has a similar relationship as a cleric does to their god (because the trinity of magic does not have clerics, IMO the wizard is their default cleric) and a character must follow the guidelines of their god (or order).

but heck, I'm probably wrong ;)

Arandur
#3
talinthas
Aug 24, 2003 20:58:42 i always understood the wohs as following the good/evil axis, so neutral evil and good go black and white, not red.
#4
dragontooth
Aug 24, 2003 21:36:34 Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good = White Robes
Lawful Neutral, Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral = Red Robes
Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Evil = Black Robes
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 9:06:40
Originally posted by Dragontooth
Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good = White Robes
Lawful Neutral, Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral = Red Robes
Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Evil = Black Robes

ding! you win!
#6
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 9:43:38 Hmm, I dont like that.

I always thought of your robe color reflecting how you viewed magic, not how you viewed the world. I mean, is it impossible that a LN character could have the view that magic should only be used to help others? Is it imposible for a LE character to think the same?

Personaly I always wanted to make a CG black robe. He would believe in the greater good, but in his philosophy on magic he would be willing to do anything for more magical power. *shrugs* but thats just me.
#7
cam_banks
Aug 25, 2003 9:48:09
Originally posted by Halabis
Hmm, I dont like that.

I always thought of your robe color reflecting how you viewed magic, not how you viewed the world. I mean, is it impossible that a LN character could have the view that magic should only be used to help others? Is it imposible for a LE character to think the same?

Not impossible, but only on a whim of the Black Robe. One's alignment is completely bound up in one's Order. If you change alignment, you have to change Orders. There aren't any evil White Robes or good Black Robes. Remember, alignment doesn't rule out certain actions, it just makes it more unlikely that the character will undertake them.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 16:15:17 Thanks...so everybody is pretty much of the mind that "any neutral" means any neutral on the "good, evil, or neutral" axis?

If so, why does it say "ANY neutral" and not give specifics as to where that neutral is to be applied? And does that mean that any time you see "any neutral" it's always talking about the second half of the alignment? Thanks for all the replies.
#9
shugi
Aug 25, 2003 16:24:28
Originally posted by vader42xx
And does that mean that any time you see "any neutral" it's always talking about the second half of the alignment?

Generally, no. My guess is that an editor saw:
Alignment: Lawful neutral, true neutral, or chaotic neutral (Red)
...and thought it looked better. *shrug*
#10
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 16:51:29 I dunno....I know that neutral good and neutral evil should not be Red Robes.....but in the words of Judge Reinhold in his guest appearance on the Clerks animated series.....I'm going to allow it. I like the idea of having alot of diversity in the Red Robes. It may also help to foster the whole prejudice that some Krynnish folk have that Red Robes are just as bad as Black Robes. I believe it was in The Citadel that a gold dragon refused to carry a Red Robe on a particular mission to destroy a flying citadel even though the mission was planned by the Red Robe in question. The gold wouldnt carry him because he hadn't fully shunned evil or fully embraced good. Anyone who likes this idea?
#11
cam_banks
Aug 25, 2003 16:53:35
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
The gold wouldnt carry him because he hadn't fully shunned evil or fully embraced good. Anyone who likes this idea?

Didn't that character end up being a White Robe?

Saying there isn't enough diversity in the Red Robes is a little weird given that there are probably more of them than any other branch of the Order. Lawful neutral, neutral, and chaotic neutral can be just as widely variable and different as any collection of good or evil characters.

Cheers,
Cam
#12
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 16:57:52
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Didn't that character end up being a White Robe?

Saying there isn't enough diversity in the Red Robes is a little weird given that there are probably more of them than any other branch of the Order. Lawful neutral, neutral, and chaotic neutral can be just as widely variable and different as any collection of good or evil characters.

Cheers,
Cam

No....I didnt mean that there wasnt enough diversity in the Red Robes....I just like the idea of more. I like the idea of not knowing whether a Red Robe is fully to be trusted......And yes....he did become a White Robe at the end. And thanks btw......I wondered whether the Red Robes were the highest numbering of the Orders.
#13
randpc
Aug 25, 2003 19:25:54 Personally I ignore the entire requirement that one be of a certain alignment to be a White/Red/Black robed WOHS.
In my game the robe one wears is dictated entirely by the actions one chooses in his test, the vast majority of times that accords with his general alignment but on the rare occasion his acvtions in the test may not fully accord with his alignment and he/she ends up in a robe that is unlike his/her alignment would seem to dictate.

In short:
The test of high sorcery dictates the robes one wears, not the alignment.

That's just the way I play it though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 24, 2003 20:34:14	Under the requirments for a Red Robed WoHS it lists the alignment as "any neutral." My question is, does that mean only the second part of the alignment (ie: chaotic-neutral, neutral, lawful-neutral) or does that also include neutral-evil and neutral-good? I'm of the mind that it means ANY alignment with the word neutral in it. And, generally, this is a question that applies to any prestige class with an alignment restriction but the WoHS was a good example. Thanks for the help.
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 24, 2003 20:47:10	Vader, I took it to mean the second part of the alignment being neutral as in 'any (ie: lawful or chaotic) nuetral. I think this is because a Wizard of High Sorcery has a similar relationship as a cleric does to their god (because the trinity of magic does not have clerics, IMO the wizard is their default cleric) and a character must follow the guidelines of their god (or order). but heck, I'm probably wrong ;) Arandur
#3 talinthas Aug 24, 2003 20:58:42	i always understood the wohs as following the good/evil axis, so neutral evil and good go black and white, not red.
#4 dragontooth Aug 24, 2003 21:36:34	Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good = White Robes Lawful Neutral, Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral = Red Robes Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Evil = Black Robes
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 9:06:40	Originally posted by Dragontooth Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good = White Robes Lawful Neutral, Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral = Red Robes Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Evil = Black Robes ding! you win!
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 9:43:38	Hmm, I dont like that. I always thought of your robe color reflecting how you viewed magic, not how you viewed the world. I mean, is it impossible that a LN character could have the view that magic should only be used to help others? Is it imposible for a LE character to think the same? Personaly I always wanted to make a CG black robe. He would believe in the greater good, but in his philosophy on magic he would be willing to do anything for more magical power. shrugs but thats just me.
#7 cam_banks Aug 25, 2003 9:48:09	Originally posted by Halabis Hmm, I dont like that. I always thought of your robe color reflecting how you viewed magic, not how you viewed the world. I mean, is it impossible that a LN character could have the view that magic should only be used to help others? Is it imposible for a LE character to think the same? Not impossible, but only on a whim of the Black Robe. One's alignment is completely bound up in one's Order. If you change alignment, you have to change Orders. There aren't any evil White Robes or good Black Robes. Remember, alignment doesn't rule out certain actions, it just makes it more unlikely that the character will undertake them. Cheers, Cam
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 16:15:17	Thanks...so everybody is pretty much of the mind that "any neutral" means any neutral on the "good, evil, or neutral" axis? If so, why does it say "ANY neutral" and not give specifics as to where that neutral is to be applied? And does that mean that any time you see "any neutral" it's always talking about the second half of the alignment? Thanks for all the replies.
#9 shugi Aug 25, 2003 16:24:28	Originally posted by vader42xx And does that mean that any time you see "any neutral" it's always talking about the second half of the alignment? Generally, no. My guess is that an editor saw: Alignment: Lawful neutral, true neutral, or chaotic neutral (Red) ...and thought it looked better. shrug
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 16:51:29	I dunno....I know that neutral good and neutral evil should not be Red Robes.....but in the words of Judge Reinhold in his guest appearance on the Clerks animated series.....I'm going to allow it. I like the idea of having alot of diversity in the Red Robes. It may also help to foster the whole prejudice that some Krynnish folk have that Red Robes are just as bad as Black Robes. I believe it was in The Citadel that a gold dragon refused to carry a Red Robe on a particular mission to destroy a flying citadel even though the mission was planned by the Red Robe in question. The gold wouldnt carry him because he hadn't fully shunned evil or fully embraced good. Anyone who likes this idea?
#11 cam_banks Aug 25, 2003 16:53:35	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst The gold wouldnt carry him because he hadn't fully shunned evil or fully embraced good. Anyone who likes this idea? Didn't that character end up being a White Robe? Saying there isn't enough diversity in the Red Robes is a little weird given that there are probably more of them than any other branch of the Order. Lawful neutral, neutral, and chaotic neutral can be just as widely variable and different as any collection of good or evil characters. Cheers, Cam
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 16:57:52	Originally posted by Cam Banks Didn't that character end up being a White Robe? Saying there isn't enough diversity in the Red Robes is a little weird given that there are probably more of them than any other branch of the Order. Lawful neutral, neutral, and chaotic neutral can be just as widely variable and different as any collection of good or evil characters. Cheers, Cam No....I didnt mean that there wasnt enough diversity in the Red Robes....I just like the idea of more. I like the idea of not knowing whether a Red Robe is fully to be trusted......And yes....he did become a White Robe at the end. And thanks btw......I wondered whether the Red Robes were the highest numbering of the Orders.
#13 randpc Aug 25, 2003 19:25:54	Personally I ignore the entire requirement that one be of a certain alignment to be a White/Red/Black robed WOHS. In my game the robe one wears is dictated entirely by the actions one chooses in his test, the vast majority of times that accords with his general alignment but on the rare occasion his acvtions in the test may not fully accord with his alignment and he/she ends up in a robe that is unlike his/her alignment would seem to dictate. In short: The test of high sorcery dictates the robes one wears, not the alignment. That's just the way I play it though.