Best Living Greyhawk articles to date. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Best Living Greyhawk articles to date.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 25, 2003 22:12:42 Since its inception a few years back, Living Greyhawk has asserted itself through a new sourcebbok and a stream of articles in the LGJ (some of which have appeared in both Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Anyway, I thought it might be interesting to discuss some of the pieces that have been written concerning the setting we all know and love.

As for myself, I particularly liked the piece on the Bright Desert (Dragon 301?)and the description of its inahbitants. It sounds like this month's Dungeon (103) is doing a follow-up to that with NPCs.

Do you have a favorite?
#2
cwslyclgh
Aug 25, 2003 23:19:47 well it is not a living greyhawk article, but I have an article set in greyhawk that will be appearing in an upcomming dragon that I like fairly well ;)
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2003 2:24:42 The write-up on the circle of eight was very informative. I particularly liked the background history and the recent changes.
#4
cwslyclgh
Aug 26, 2003 2:33:17 Iliked the death knight articles the best.
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2003 3:13:30 In what publication were they printed? I'd like to get a copy of that if possible.
#6
cwslyclgh
Aug 26, 2003 13:03:14 dragon 290 and 291
#7
zombiegleemax
Aug 27, 2003 3:24:46 Next months article, Paladins of Greyhawk, sounds pretty good. I'm really looking forward to it.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 27, 2003 11:13:47 Good question. Below are my favorites:
"Wheels within Wheels: Greyhawk's Circle of Eight" (issue 0)
"The Kingdom of Keoland" (issue 1)
"The Blood of Heroes" (3)
"Zeif: Rock of the West" (5)
"The Death Knights of Oerth" (6)
"Demogorgan's Champions" (7)
"The Vault of the Drow" (14)
"Scouring the Lands of the Traitor: Into the Bright Desert" (21)

Just listing all these is fairly amazing: it reminds me that the LGJ has published a significant number of articles -- even if lately it's seemed to diminish.

Reviewing my favorites, I discern that I prefer articles that provide heretofore unknown details about specific regions of Oerth. Similarly, "The Blood of Heroes" presented great details about the hero-gods of Oerth. For the death knight articles, I greatly enjoyed that they evoked the deep history of Aerdy.
#9
xiphias_dup
Nov 19, 2003 5:45:55 This simply needed dredging up.

I'm a sucker for just about any Living Greyhawk article, but I do have some favorites...

Vault of the Drow
Kingdom of Keoland
The Circle of Eight
Paladins of Greyhawk
The Bright Desert
Denizens of the Bright Desert
and War Duke

Having said that, I've noticed that some of the older articles have started disappearing from the Living Greyhawk website. By any chance, would that indicate an upcoming compilation of the LGJ?

Gary?
Erik?
#10
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 6:12:35
Originally posted by xiphias
Having said that, I've noticed that some of the older articles have started disappearing from the Living Greyhawk website. By any chance, would that indicate an upcoming compilation of the LGJ?

For the last three GreyTalk chats I've been mentioning this to Erik and so have a couple of other people. So far we've hit a 'possibly' wall.

I have all of them on PDF (yeah, yeah, naughty me) but would LEAP towards any store that sold these, even if only online.
#11
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 9:37:42 The Death Knights of Oerth article was the only one I've put into my campaign binder. It's very nice.
#12
Elendur
Nov 19, 2003 10:46:49 Where was the Vault of the Drow article from?
I'd definitely pay for a PDF compilation of all 3rd edition Greyhawk material published so far.
#13
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 15:15:32 Well, thanks for the compliments guys!

I loved writing the Death Knights article (wasn't the art particularly evocative? really good stuff I thought!) and the others I've done for the LGJ. I have some extra material for that article (a few more descriptions and items that I didn't have the time and space to finish back then. For fans of the article, I'll try to put them on CF and post a link here.)

Is that the sort of material you guys like (ie. NPCs and Lore)? I have a good feeling for what the "grognards" want (or don't want as the case may be) but greyhawk fans, new and old, are no longer on Wizards' radar screen, so its always nice to get feedback. Sadly, the LGJ is pretty much the last place for published Greyhawk material around.

I have a backburner loaded with stuff I'm working on, but what types of articles would be most desired/valuable to you guys in the magazine, if you had to prioritize? Perhaps we should start a new thread, but I'd be happy to hear your thoughts, or you can mail them to me.

-Gary

psmedger @ canonfire.com
#14
erik_mona
Nov 19, 2003 15:28:22 It goes without saying that I'm keenly interested in this thread as well.

Oh boy do I have some stuff simmering that you guys are going to dig.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
#15
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 15:35:12 I like stuff that can be dropped into any Greyhawk game, regardless if you base your game in CY 570 using the 1983 boxed set, or 593 and playing with the LGG. The death knights article was geat in that it doesn't assume anything about how one uses the "canon" of Greyhawk. That article would be fine to use with 1e. It's a flavor article that can be dropped into any campaign and doesn't try to "advance" the setting in anyway other than adding a little more flavor.

When I was running my 3.0e game I started buying Dragon again when I found out the LGG was going to be in there. Then the great Death Knight article hits and I'm floored. However, the string of articles on new Prc's and stuff like the Blood Golems left me a little let down. Around Dragon 297/98 I quit buying it again.

P.S. The Article on Spinecastle wasn't bad either.
#16
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 16:02:07
Originally posted by Darth Binky
I like stuff that can be dropped into any Greyhawk game, regardless if you base your game in CY 570 using the 1983 boxed set, or 593 and playing with the LGG. The death knights article was geat in that it doesn't assume anything about how one uses the "canon" of Greyhawk. That article would be fine to use with 1e. It's a flavor article that can be dropped into any campaign and doesn't try to "advance" the setting in anyway other than adding a little more flavor.

Thanks! That is _very_ consciously done. I enjoy campaigning in both the Pre-GHWars and Post-GHWars era Flanaess, so I always try to include material about the past as well as details that could be used at any time. I also try to write things that don't hinge on a particular rule set, if at all possible. Most of my articles contain homages to the many things I liked about the 1st edition campaign and made us Greyhawk fans in the first place.

When I was running my 3.0e game I started buying Dragon again when I found out the LGG was going to be in there. Then the great Death Knight article hits and I'm floored. However, the string of articles on new Prc's and stuff like the Blood Golems left me a little let down. Around Dragon 297/98 I quit buying it again.

Well, the LGJ is now in Dungeon, and hopefully Erik will have the space and resources to do things more exciting to you again! (closer to the original 6 stand alone issues of the LGJ.) I'm not a huge fan of crunchy bits (ie "rules") articles. You can get those anywhere in the d20 universe. But adventure hooks and lore? Yes!

P.S. The Article on Spinecastle wasn't bad either.

Ouch, thanks, I think! Would you like to see any more of that, or did you get just enough already?

-Gary
#17
zombiegleemax
Nov 19, 2003 16:10:18 Oh it was a compliment! :D

That article gave me some adventure ideas that I may or may not use in the future. I almost sat down and mapped out the entire fortress on graph paper.
#18
Argon
Nov 20, 2003 6:58:09 I really don't like these double posts!
#19
Argon
Nov 20, 2003 6:58:09
Is that the sort of material you guys like (ie. NPCs and Lore)? I have a good feeling for what the "grognards" want (or don't want as the case may be) but greyhawk fans, new and old, are no longer on Wizards' radar screen, so its always nice to get feedback. Sadly, the LGJ is pretty much the last place for published Greyhawk material around.

I think most GH fans are starved for something GH specific. Area's of interest for me are those places in GH that have seen little or no attention at all. Also an article that might detail a city or town that no work has been done on before would be good as well. Especially if a map is included with the description.

Overall the LGJ gives us tidbits at a time which are pretty well done for the most part. Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity. That's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have found the article to be well written. Like I stated I never saw that particular article.

One more thing I feel we can add new element s to GH without borrowing things wholesale from other settings. In my campaign I did away with the trolls as D&D fans both new and old know them. Instead I took the physical descriptions of trolls from both mythlogy and I usally explain them as looking like the Troll from the three billy goats gruff. IMC they are rumored to have influenced both Dwarven culture and many of the human culture's of the Sheldomar Valley.

That's my take on things enjoy!
#20
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2003 7:57:26
Originally posted by Argon
Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity.

Actually, I think I remember talking to the respected Smedger about this and him saying that the Death Knights were original to GH... 'nuther thing borrowed... nothing new
#21
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2003 8:39:27 Death Knights were in the Fiend Folio long before there was a Lord Soth.

#22
despotrix
Nov 20, 2003 15:19:39 Yah, as a Fiend Folio 1e monster, the Death Knight could be considered a -greyhawk monster- in 1e, before Dragonlance used the idea. Since there was never any real development of them in Greyhawk tho, it's not exactly fair to say Dragonlance 'stole' them.

Anyhoo,
My favorite LGJ articles so far are probably the Circle of Eight article (which seems to be unanimously liked) and the Kingdom of Keoland write-up.

Those articles, and others like them, which are low on 'crunch' and heavy with setting expanding fluff are, IMO, the best type of articles for the setting anymore, since they provide a lot of utility for everyone, despite whichever of the growing editions of the game you play.
#23
despotrix
Nov 20, 2003 15:19:53 blah, double post
#24
Argon
Nov 20, 2003 15:20:33 I don't know about the first fiend folio I never had it. Plus I'm sure many people don't find a problem with using any sort of undead as universal to all settings. I'm simply going on some 1st and second edition DL module books and monster manuals which have both histories for the Death Knight as well as an actually monster manual specific to DL with the Death Knight as DL specific.

All in all you can do what you like in your campaign it's just a personal preference for me is all.
#25
despotrix
Nov 20, 2003 15:54:31
Originally posted by Argon
Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity. That's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have found the article to be well written.

Gary's Death Knights are very greyhawk specific (the article features specific personages and the story of their creation as an undead variety, not just a monster manual style entry) and share very little flavor with Lord Soth or anything else Dragonlance.

The Death Knight, in name, does invoke images of Dragonlance and Ravenloft, but this article is a great example of how a well tread D&D archtype can be adapted to Greyhawk specific flavor.
#26
zombiegleemax
Nov 20, 2003 17:06:02 I thought the two Bright Desert articles were really good, esp as our homegame was based around there and the Abor-Alz.

Some interesting fleshing out of the existing material, new 3e NPCs inc Rary and some monsters. Pretty cool.

The detail of Clerkberg was also very interesting but as I have the city of GH box not as useful as the info on the Bright which has been a big help in some LG scenarios based there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2003 22:12:42	Since its inception a few years back, Living Greyhawk has asserted itself through a new sourcebbok and a stream of articles in the LGJ (some of which have appeared in both Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Anyway, I thought it might be interesting to discuss some of the pieces that have been written concerning the setting we all know and love. As for myself, I particularly liked the piece on the Bright Desert (Dragon 301?)and the description of its inahbitants. It sounds like this month's Dungeon (103) is doing a follow-up to that with NPCs. Do you have a favorite?
#2 cwslyclgh Aug 25, 2003 23:19:47	well it is not a living greyhawk article, but I have an article set in greyhawk that will be appearing in an upcomming dragon that I like fairly well ;)
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 2:24:42	The write-up on the circle of eight was very informative. I particularly liked the background history and the recent changes.
#4 cwslyclgh Aug 26, 2003 2:33:17	Iliked the death knight articles the best.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 3:13:30	In what publication were they printed? I'd like to get a copy of that if possible.
#6 cwslyclgh Aug 26, 2003 13:03:14	dragon 290 and 291
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 27, 2003 3:24:46	Next months article, Paladins of Greyhawk, sounds pretty good. I'm really looking forward to it.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 27, 2003 11:13:47	Good question. Below are my favorites: "Wheels within Wheels: Greyhawk's Circle of Eight" (issue 0) "The Kingdom of Keoland" (issue 1) "The Blood of Heroes" (3) "Zeif: Rock of the West" (5) "The Death Knights of Oerth" (6) "Demogorgan's Champions" (7) "The Vault of the Drow" (14) "Scouring the Lands of the Traitor: Into the Bright Desert" (21) Just listing all these is fairly amazing: it reminds me that the LGJ has published a significant number of articles -- even if lately it's seemed to diminish. Reviewing my favorites, I discern that I prefer articles that provide heretofore unknown details about specific regions of Oerth. Similarly, "The Blood of Heroes" presented great details about the hero-gods of Oerth. For the death knight articles, I greatly enjoyed that they evoked the deep history of Aerdy.
#9 xiphias_dup Nov 19, 2003 5:45:55	This simply needed dredging up. I'm a sucker for just about any Living Greyhawk article, but I do have some favorites... Vault of the Drow Kingdom of Keoland The Circle of Eight Paladins of Greyhawk The Bright Desert Denizens of the Bright Desert and War Duke Having said that, I've noticed that some of the older articles have started disappearing from the Living Greyhawk website. By any chance, would that indicate an upcoming compilation of the LGJ? Gary? Erik?
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 6:12:35	Originally posted by xiphias Having said that, I've noticed that some of the older articles have started disappearing from the Living Greyhawk website. By any chance, would that indicate an upcoming compilation of the LGJ? For the last three GreyTalk chats I've been mentioning this to Erik and so have a couple of other people. So far we've hit a 'possibly' wall. I have all of them on PDF (yeah, yeah, naughty me) but would LEAP towards any store that sold these, even if only online.
#11 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 9:37:42	The Death Knights of Oerth article was the only one I've put into my campaign binder. It's very nice.
#12 Elendur Nov 19, 2003 10:46:49	Where was the Vault of the Drow article from? I'd definitely pay for a PDF compilation of all 3rd edition Greyhawk material published so far.
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 15:15:32	Well, thanks for the compliments guys! I loved writing the Death Knights article (wasn't the art particularly evocative? really good stuff I thought!) and the others I've done for the LGJ. I have some extra material for that article (a few more descriptions and items that I didn't have the time and space to finish back then. For fans of the article, I'll try to put them on CF and post a link here.) Is that the sort of material you guys like (ie. NPCs and Lore)? I have a good feeling for what the "grognards" want (or don't want as the case may be) but greyhawk fans, new and old, are no longer on Wizards' radar screen, so its always nice to get feedback. Sadly, the LGJ is pretty much the last place for published Greyhawk material around. I have a backburner loaded with stuff I'm working on, but what types of articles would be most desired/valuable to you guys in the magazine, if you had to prioritize? Perhaps we should start a new thread, but I'd be happy to hear your thoughts, or you can mail them to me. -Gary psmedger @ canonfire.com
#14 erik_mona Nov 19, 2003 15:28:22	It goes without saying that I'm keenly interested in this thread as well. Oh boy do I have some stuff simmering that you guys are going to dig. --Erik Mona Editor-in-Chief Dungeon Magazine
#15 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 15:35:12	I like stuff that can be dropped into any Greyhawk game, regardless if you base your game in CY 570 using the 1983 boxed set, or 593 and playing with the LGG. The death knights article was geat in that it doesn't assume anything about how one uses the "canon" of Greyhawk. That article would be fine to use with 1e. It's a flavor article that can be dropped into any campaign and doesn't try to "advance" the setting in anyway other than adding a little more flavor. When I was running my 3.0e game I started buying Dragon again when I found out the LGG was going to be in there. Then the great Death Knight article hits and I'm floored. However, the string of articles on new Prc's and stuff like the Blood Golems left me a little let down. Around Dragon 297/98 I quit buying it again. P.S. The Article on Spinecastle wasn't bad either.
#16 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 16:02:07	Originally posted by Darth Binky I like stuff that can be dropped into any Greyhawk game, regardless if you base your game in CY 570 using the 1983 boxed set, or 593 and playing with the LGG. The death knights article was geat in that it doesn't assume anything about how one uses the "canon" of Greyhawk. That article would be fine to use with 1e. It's a flavor article that can be dropped into any campaign and doesn't try to "advance" the setting in anyway other than adding a little more flavor. Thanks! That is _very_ consciously done. I enjoy campaigning in both the Pre-GHWars and Post-GHWars era Flanaess, so I always try to include material about the past as well as details that could be used at any time. I also try to write things that don't hinge on a particular rule set, if at all possible. Most of my articles contain homages to the many things I liked about the 1st edition campaign and made us Greyhawk fans in the first place. When I was running my 3.0e game I started buying Dragon again when I found out the LGG was going to be in there. Then the great Death Knight article hits and I'm floored. However, the string of articles on new Prc's and stuff like the Blood Golems left me a little let down. Around Dragon 297/98 I quit buying it again. Well, the LGJ is now in Dungeon, and hopefully Erik will have the space and resources to do things more exciting to you again! (closer to the original 6 stand alone issues of the LGJ.) I'm not a huge fan of crunchy bits (ie "rules") articles. You can get those anywhere in the d20 universe. But adventure hooks and lore? Yes! P.S. The Article on Spinecastle wasn't bad either. Ouch, thanks, I think! Would you like to see any more of that, or did you get just enough already? -Gary
#17 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2003 16:10:18	Oh it was a compliment! :D That article gave me some adventure ideas that I may or may not use in the future. I almost sat down and mapped out the entire fortress on graph paper.
#18 Argon Nov 20, 2003 6:58:09	I really don't like these double posts!
#19 Argon Nov 20, 2003 6:58:09	Is that the sort of material you guys like (ie. NPCs and Lore)? I have a good feeling for what the "grognards" want (or don't want as the case may be) but greyhawk fans, new and old, are no longer on Wizards' radar screen, so its always nice to get feedback. Sadly, the LGJ is pretty much the last place for published Greyhawk material around. I think most GH fans are starved for something GH specific. Area's of interest for me are those places in GH that have seen little or no attention at all. Also an article that might detail a city or town that no work has been done on before would be good as well. Especially if a map is included with the description. Overall the LGJ gives us tidbits at a time which are pretty well done for the most part. Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity. That's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have found the article to be well written. Like I stated I never saw that particular article. One more thing I feel we can add new element s to GH without borrowing things wholesale from other settings. In my campaign I did away with the trolls as D&D fans both new and old know them. Instead I took the physical descriptions of trolls from both mythlogy and I usally explain them as looking like the Troll from the three billy goats gruff. IMC they are rumored to have influenced both Dwarven culture and many of the human culture's of the Sheldomar Valley. That's my take on things enjoy!
#20 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2003 7:57:26	Originally posted by Argon Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity. Actually, I think I remember talking to the respected Smedger about this and him saying that the Death Knights were original to GH... 'nuther thing borrowed... nothing new
#21 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2003 8:39:27	Death Knights were in the Fiend Folio long before there was a Lord Soth.
#22 despotrix Nov 20, 2003 15:19:39	Yah, as a Fiend Folio 1e monster, the Death Knight could be considered a -greyhawk monster- in 1e, before Dragonlance used the idea. Since there was never any real development of them in Greyhawk tho, it's not exactly fair to say Dragonlance 'stole' them. Anyhoo, My favorite LGJ articles so far are probably the Circle of Eight article (which seems to be unanimously liked) and the Kingdom of Keoland write-up. Those articles, and others like them, which are low on 'crunch' and heavy with setting expanding fluff are, IMO, the best type of articles for the setting anymore, since they provide a lot of utility for everyone, despite whichever of the growing editions of the game you play.
#23 despotrix Nov 20, 2003 15:19:53	blah, double post
#24 Argon Nov 20, 2003 15:20:33	I don't know about the first fiend folio I never had it. Plus I'm sure many people don't find a problem with using any sort of undead as universal to all settings. I'm simply going on some 1st and second edition DL module books and monster manuals which have both histories for the Death Knight as well as an actually monster manual specific to DL with the Death Knight as DL specific. All in all you can do what you like in your campaign it's just a personal preference for me is all.
#25 despotrix Nov 20, 2003 15:54:31	Originally posted by Argon Now I never seen the Death Knight issue. I probably wouldn't have used it for my campaign. Only because i see the Death Knight as being a Dragon Lance specific entity. That's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have found the article to be well written. Gary's Death Knights are very greyhawk specific (the article features specific personages and the story of their creation as an undead variety, not just a monster manual style entry) and share very little flavor with Lord Soth or anything else Dragonlance. The Death Knight, in name, does invoke images of Dragonlance and Ravenloft, but this article is a great example of how a well tread D&D archtype can be adapted to Greyhawk specific flavor.
#26 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2003 17:06:02	I thought the two Bright Desert articles were really good, esp as our homegame was based around there and the Abor-Alz. Some interesting fleshing out of the existing material, new 3e NPCs inc Rary and some monsters. Pretty cool. The detail of Clerkberg was also very interesting but as I have the city of GH box not as useful as the info on the Bright which has been a big help in some LG scenarios based there.