Question about the Vision (KoT)... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Question about the Vision (KoT)...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2003 18:29:25 I was sure that I read something about the Knights of Tahkisis ability in regards to the Vision. I thought it was in the DLCS but I looked through it last night and couldn't find it again, must have read it somewhere else. I have a Paladin in my DL campaign (not usually allowed, for Paladine's sake one of the War of Souls novels was named for a Paladin elf's sword!) and was thinking of replacing the Detect Evil ability with the Vision ability of the Dark Knights (differing gods of course!). Was wondering if anyone had a good way of portraying the Vision?

And yes I did say REPLACE the Detect Evil ability. I personally hate it, how many great scenarios have been destroyed by that annoying ability? There is only so many times you can have villains or spies that have undetectable alignment spells or items before it becomes a little tiring...

Arandur

Edit: Found James O'rance's version of the Vision, works nicely(IMO) but don't know if it truly captures the flavour of the Vision (that I was after)...
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2003 19:37:51 Hmm perhaps you could say that the detect evil did not work because the particular person was not of an evil race or doing anything evil at the time. I once had this very benevolent lawful evil City mayor. He helped the poor, made positive contributions to the community, and was secretly the man who murdered the town's previous mayor in cold blood.
#3
shugi
Aug 26, 2003 19:58:16
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
I once had this very benevolent lawful evil City mayor. He helped the poor, made positive contributions to the community, and was secretly the man who murdered the town's previous mayor in cold blood.

Was this in Sunnydale? :D

Following Serena's point, PCs could get in trouble very fast if they start something with everyone who the paladin defines as evil. Evil isn't always the moustache-curling, girl-tied-to-railroad-tracks kind of evil.
#4
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2003 21:35:12 That's exactly the sort of evil I'm actually talking about. The moustache-curling evil does not reallistically need the use of Detect Evil because it is plainly visible. The context I'm using it in is an Evil bard that appears as a friend of the party, but in reality is using his glib tongue to undermine them at every turn. Unfortunately the Paladin ability to Detect Evil would reveal himself and his contacts. Besides I find it more fun for my players to have to guess the alignment of other characters, so that they have to be certain an individual is what they are...

Arandur
#5
shugi
Aug 27, 2003 9:52:58
Originally posted by Arandur
That's exactly the sort of evil I'm actually talking about. The moustache-curling evil does not reallistically need the use of Detect Evil because it is plainly visible. The context I'm using it in is an Evil bard that appears as a friend of the party, but in reality is using his glib tongue to undermine them at every turn. Unfortunately the Paladin ability to Detect Evil would reveal himself and his contacts. Besides I find it more fun for my players to have to guess the alignment of other characters, so that they have to be certain an individual is what they are...

Arandur

Replacing detect evil seems to be a solid choice (I don't currently allow paladins in my DL game), but I've also toyed with it in the past. For example, not every evil character has an ulterior motive, or is out to manipulate the PCs. Evil people are people too! It's entirely possible that an evil character approaches the PCs for help, is attracted to a PC, strikes up a conversation... and doesn't have an ulterior motive. If the PCs are too paranoid, they could do something horrible in the interest of "justice".

Alternately, the "not-so-evil" villain might be trying to reform, but the PCs just might (unknowingly) help/hinder the character in his self-discovery.

Back to the altered-Vision. The Vision is fairly subjective, and can be difficult to put into game terms. It could be similar to an augury spell, with a bonus that favors Paladine's point of view.

Alternately, the character might be able to use one particular effect per day from a list, such as augury, detect chaos, detect evil, discern lies[/i], etc. If he used augury earlier that day, he's out of luck.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 18:29:25	I was sure that I read something about the Knights of Tahkisis ability in regards to the Vision. I thought it was in the DLCS but I looked through it last night and couldn't find it again, must have read it somewhere else. I have a Paladin in my DL campaign (not usually allowed, for Paladine's sake one of the War of Souls novels was named for a Paladin elf's sword!) and was thinking of replacing the Detect Evil ability with the Vision ability of the Dark Knights (differing gods of course!). Was wondering if anyone had a good way of portraying the Vision? And yes I did say REPLACE the Detect Evil ability. I personally hate it, how many great scenarios have been destroyed by that annoying ability? There is only so many times you can have villains or spies that have undetectable alignment spells or items before it becomes a little tiring... Arandur Edit: Found James O'rance's version of the Vision, works nicely(IMO) but don't know if it truly captures the flavour of the Vision (that I was after)...
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 19:37:51	Hmm perhaps you could say that the detect evil did not work because the particular person was not of an evil race or doing anything evil at the time. I once had this very benevolent lawful evil City mayor. He helped the poor, made positive contributions to the community, and was secretly the man who murdered the town's previous mayor in cold blood.
#3 shugi Aug 26, 2003 19:58:16	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst I once had this very benevolent lawful evil City mayor. He helped the poor, made positive contributions to the community, and was secretly the man who murdered the town's previous mayor in cold blood. Was this in Sunnydale? :D Following Serena's point, PCs could get in trouble very fast if they start something with everyone who the paladin defines as evil. Evil isn't always the moustache-curling, girl-tied-to-railroad-tracks kind of evil.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2003 21:35:12	That's exactly the sort of evil I'm actually talking about. The moustache-curling evil does not reallistically need the use of Detect Evil because it is plainly visible. The context I'm using it in is an Evil bard that appears as a friend of the party, but in reality is using his glib tongue to undermine them at every turn. Unfortunately the Paladin ability to Detect Evil would reveal himself and his contacts. Besides I find it more fun for my players to have to guess the alignment of other characters, so that they have to be certain an individual is what they are... Arandur
#5 shugi Aug 27, 2003 9:52:58	Originally posted by Arandur That's exactly the sort of evil I'm actually talking about. The moustache-curling evil does not reallistically need the use of Detect Evil because it is plainly visible. The context I'm using it in is an Evil bard that appears as a friend of the party, but in reality is using his glib tongue to undermine them at every turn. Unfortunately the Paladin ability to Detect Evil would reveal himself and his contacts. Besides I find it more fun for my players to have to guess the alignment of other characters, so that they have to be certain an individual is what they are... Arandur Replacing detect evil seems to be a solid choice (I don't currently allow paladins in my DL game), but I've also toyed with it in the past. For example, not every evil character has an ulterior motive, or is out to manipulate the PCs. Evil people are people too! It's entirely possible that an evil character approaches the PCs for help, is attracted to a PC, strikes up a conversation... and doesn't have an ulterior motive. If the PCs are too paranoid, they could do something horrible in the interest of "justice". Alternately, the "not-so-evil" villain might be trying to reform, but the PCs just might (unknowingly) help/hinder the character in his self-discovery. Back to the altered-Vision. The Vision is fairly subjective, and can be difficult to put into game terms. It could be similar to an augury spell, with a bonus that favors Paladine's point of view. Alternately, the character might be able to use one particular effect per day from a list, such as augury, detect chaos, detect evil, discern lies[/i], etc. If he used augury earlier that day, he's out of luck.