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About Time Travelling...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 7:43:18 Hey everyone! I was wondering about Time Travelling and the races that are allowed to do it without changing the River of Time.
It says in "Time of the Twins" that only Ogres, Humans and elves may time travel and that dwarves, kender and gnomes may not because they were an accident. So what about minotaurs, dragons, goblins and such?
and another thing, weren't the gnomes created by Reorx himself? And they turned into kender and dwarves?
I would appreciate if you could help me out here
#2
lenin97
Aug 28, 2003 7:58:38 I was always under the impression that Ogres, Humans and Elves were the only races that could time travel becasue they were the first races. That way, the time traveller can go back to the beginning and take the place of an existing person in any action they take. (See The Legends Trilogy of examples of this).

This is a fall safe to prevent anyone from actually changing History anymore than cosmetically (Names, Faces, Times) while keeping the inportant information safe (Cataclysms, Wars, Deaths).

But then again that was just my impression. :D
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 10:39:03 Personally I think Time Travel has been played to death as a adventure plot or seed.
But thats just me. Probably because Time Travel being used in Fantasy and Sci Fi as a plot device to often that it turn me off to the idea.

None of the 'Greygem" races where on Krynn when the mortal awakened. A race may have to had exsisted from the "Beginning" to the Present in order to Time Travel. But then how do you explain Tas skimping throught time? ;)
#4
jonesy
Aug 28, 2003 10:40:42 The latest issue of Tobril (available for download at Dragonlance.com) has a great article on Krynnish time travel.
#5
lenin97
Aug 28, 2003 10:42:55 I think that any race CAN time travel but for that sustained existance of time itself they SHOULD NOT time travel. Because the Graygem races are not designed to be part of the spell, they can effect the past wil the spell is designed to keep Humans, Ogres and Elves from being able to do that very thing.
#6
talinthas
Aug 28, 2003 10:45:42 if you're dead set on it though, play through the Anvil of Time =)
#7
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 11:01:17 Does time travel in Krynn still have the following 'features':

- Greygem races travelling through time can cause time to be altered.
- Travelling to certain 'epic periods' will likely end up with the traveller being
stranded (pre-WoS, before the Order of High Sorcery was founded, etc.)
- Travelling through periods of 'epic events' such as the Cataclysm, Chaos War, etc.
may cause the traveller to end up in an alternate future.

These come from a mesh of the Chronomancer's Handbook and the various
Dragonlance materials I've read, so I can't cite specific sources. I've always
liked the vision presented for time travel in the Chronomancer's Hanbook and
have been thinking about re-implementing the class as a high-level PrC. Any
thoughts on the above?
#8
kalanth
Aug 28, 2003 13:33:49 I don't have the DLCS on me at this time, but I know there is a very good amount of detail behind this since it is an obtainable spell for PC's of high enough level.
#9
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 13:46:07 Thnx.
But here's another question: where did minotaurs and goblins come from anyway? Chaos himself or what?
And weren't the dragons created before the other races?
#10
kalanth
Aug 28, 2003 13:47:33
Originally posted by Durgar
Thnx.
But here's another question: where did minotaurs and goblins come from anyway? Chaos himself or what?

They came from Choas and The Grey Gem or Gargath.
#11
talinthas
Aug 28, 2003 13:48:06 minotaurs are ogres changed by the greygem, and goblins are the result of ogre-elven crossbreeds.
#12
ferratus
Aug 28, 2003 16:33:45 For the definitive guide to time travel in Krynn, check out Richard Connery's article in The Torbril, Issue #4. Good enough for publishing in the new book on magic, IMO.
http://www.dragonlance.com/torbril/
#13
ferratus
Aug 28, 2003 16:36:10
Originally posted by talinthas
minotaurs are ogres changed by the greygem, and goblins are the result of ogre-elven crossbreeds.

But I like half-ogre, half-elves. ;)

To borrow a phrase from Richard A. Knaak... that's just propoganda by other races. ;) People were just trying to find a way to insult goblins so they said "Those goblins, they are as cowardly as elves and as vicious as ogres!"
#14
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 16:40:29 SO minotaurs were really ogres?
but why did they turn to "half-bull"?
the greygem usually did things with irony, like dwarves and kender being once greedy or curious gnomes.
#15
ferratus
Aug 28, 2003 16:46:19
Originally posted by Durgar

And how in the world did ogres breed with elves? **** i guess

That's another thing I don't like about it. I'm uncomfortable with forcing a non-standard character's background being forced to be an act of sexual violence. It works fine in small doses (such as with Tanis Half-elven) but I dislike wierd alien **** as a fantasy cliche.

I'm very impressed with what Warcraft did on this matter. They made the Orc males bestially handsome, and even made the female orcs pretty. I mean, if you check out the picture of the Horde assassin, I'd sleep with her. With one eye open of course, but nonetheless.... ;)
#16
zombiegleemax
Aug 28, 2003 18:13:31 I know what u mean.
#17
zombiegleemax
Aug 29, 2003 8:53:37 Actualy, i dont mind that they origionated in **** long ago (or even consenting breeding back when the ogres were good looking). Ofcourse that would just be where they origionated, with modern day goblins being primarily (like 99%) born to goblin parents having descended from the origionals
#18
zombiegleemax
Aug 29, 2003 9:27:19
Originally posted by Bidnickle Topknot
These come from a mesh of the Chronomancer's Handbook and the various Dragonlance materials I've read, so I can't cite specific sources. I've always liked the vision presented for time travel in the Chronomancer's Hanbook and have been thinking about re-implementing the class as a high-level PrC. Any
thoughts on the above?

I referenced Chronomancer when I wrote the article in Tobril #4. I diverge quite a bit though. In essence, Time Travelling in Krynn is a muddy subject with some sources contradicting each other (heh, so what else is new). Chronomancer's vision is more "clean" in the sense it's modular and it strives to adapt to a regular AD&D campaign.

You'll also want to look at the upcoming Annotated Legends. Tracy Hickman will present a treatise on the subject as an appendix. Depending on circumstances, I might update my article with the new info Tracy will present us with.

P.S. Thanks Jonesy and Terry. I need a bucket now. ;)
#19
zombiegleemax
Aug 30, 2003 14:56:58
Originally posted by ferratus
That's another thing I don't like about it. I'm uncomfortable with forcing a non-standard character's background being forced to be an act of sexual violence. It works fine in small doses (such as with Tanis Half-elven) but I dislike wierd alien **** as a fantasy cliche.

I don't have a problem with it.... thats the story... I am not gonna change it around just because it is distasteful, besides its not like i start thinking about **** every time i fight a goblin....

I mean, if you check out the picture of the Horde assassin, I'd sleep with her. With one eye open of course, but nonetheless.... ;)

Hmmmm... were you one of those guys who loved jessica in Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
#20
zombiegleemax
Aug 31, 2003 4:44:57 Not me, lol. It was just a discussion of how in warcraft the orcs are a little more "good looking" than the monsterous ogres of Dragonlance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 7:43:18	Hey everyone! I was wondering about Time Travelling and the races that are allowed to do it without changing the River of Time. It says in "Time of the Twins" that only Ogres, Humans and elves may time travel and that dwarves, kender and gnomes may not because they were an accident. So what about minotaurs, dragons, goblins and such? and another thing, weren't the gnomes created by Reorx himself? And they turned into kender and dwarves? I would appreciate if you could help me out here
#2 lenin97 Aug 28, 2003 7:58:38	I was always under the impression that Ogres, Humans and Elves were the only races that could time travel becasue they were the first races. That way, the time traveller can go back to the beginning and take the place of an existing person in any action they take. (See The Legends Trilogy of examples of this). This is a fall safe to prevent anyone from actually changing History anymore than cosmetically (Names, Faces, Times) while keeping the inportant information safe (Cataclysms, Wars, Deaths). But then again that was just my impression. :D
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 10:39:03	Personally I think Time Travel has been played to death as a adventure plot or seed. But thats just me. Probably because Time Travel being used in Fantasy and Sci Fi as a plot device to often that it turn me off to the idea. None of the 'Greygem" races where on Krynn when the mortal awakened. A race may have to had exsisted from the "Beginning" to the Present in order to Time Travel. But then how do you explain Tas skimping throught time? ;)
#4 jonesy Aug 28, 2003 10:40:42	The latest issue of Tobril (available for download at Dragonlance.com) has a great article on Krynnish time travel.
#5 lenin97 Aug 28, 2003 10:42:55	I think that any race CAN time travel but for that sustained existance of time itself they SHOULD NOT time travel. Because the Graygem races are not designed to be part of the spell, they can effect the past wil the spell is designed to keep Humans, Ogres and Elves from being able to do that very thing.
#6 talinthas Aug 28, 2003 10:45:42	if you're dead set on it though, play through the Anvil of Time =)
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 11:01:17	Does time travel in Krynn still have the following 'features': - Greygem races travelling through time can cause time to be altered. - Travelling to certain 'epic periods' will likely end up with the traveller being stranded (pre-WoS, before the Order of High Sorcery was founded, etc.) - Travelling through periods of 'epic events' such as the Cataclysm, Chaos War, etc. may cause the traveller to end up in an alternate future. These come from a mesh of the Chronomancer's Handbook and the various Dragonlance materials I've read, so I can't cite specific sources. I've always liked the vision presented for time travel in the Chronomancer's Hanbook and have been thinking about re-implementing the class as a high-level PrC. Any thoughts on the above?
#8 kalanth Aug 28, 2003 13:33:49	I don't have the DLCS on me at this time, but I know there is a very good amount of detail behind this since it is an obtainable spell for PC's of high enough level.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 13:46:07	Thnx. But here's another question: where did minotaurs and goblins come from anyway? Chaos himself or what? And weren't the dragons created before the other races?
#10 kalanth Aug 28, 2003 13:47:33	Originally posted by Durgar Thnx. But here's another question: where did minotaurs and goblins come from anyway? Chaos himself or what? They came from Choas and The Grey Gem or Gargath.
#11 talinthas Aug 28, 2003 13:48:06	minotaurs are ogres changed by the greygem, and goblins are the result of ogre-elven crossbreeds.
#12 ferratus Aug 28, 2003 16:33:45	For the definitive guide to time travel in Krynn, check out Richard Connery's article in The Torbril, Issue #4. Good enough for publishing in the new book on magic, IMO. http://www.dragonlance.com/torbril/
#13 ferratus Aug 28, 2003 16:36:10	Originally posted by talinthas minotaurs are ogres changed by the greygem, and goblins are the result of ogre-elven crossbreeds. But I like half-ogre, half-elves. ;) To borrow a phrase from Richard A. Knaak... that's just propoganda by other races. ;) People were just trying to find a way to insult goblins so they said "Those goblins, they are as cowardly as elves and as vicious as ogres!"
#14 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 16:40:29	SO minotaurs were really ogres? but why did they turn to "half-bull"? the greygem usually did things with irony, like dwarves and kender being once greedy or curious gnomes.
#15 ferratus Aug 28, 2003 16:46:19	Originally posted by Durgar And how in the world did ogres breed with elves? i guess That's another thing I don't like about it. I'm uncomfortable with forcing a non-standard character's background being forced to be an act of sexual violence. It works fine in small doses (such as with Tanis Half-elven) but I dislike wierd alien **** as a fantasy cliche. I'm very impressed with what Warcraft did on this matter. They made the Orc males bestially handsome, and even made the female orcs pretty. I mean, if you check out the picture of the Horde assassin, I'd sleep with her. With one eye open of course, but nonetheless.... ;)
#16 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2003 18:13:31	I know what u mean.
#17 zombiegleemax Aug 29, 2003 8:53:37	Actualy, i dont mind that they origionated in **** long ago (or even consenting breeding back when the ogres were good looking). Ofcourse that would just be where they origionated, with modern day goblins being primarily (like 99%) born to goblin parents having descended from the origionals
#18 zombiegleemax Aug 29, 2003 9:27:19	Originally posted by Bidnickle Topknot These come from a mesh of the Chronomancer's Handbook and the various Dragonlance materials I've read, so I can't cite specific sources. I've always liked the vision presented for time travel in the Chronomancer's Hanbook and have been thinking about re-implementing the class as a high-level PrC. Any thoughts on the above? I referenced Chronomancer when I wrote the article in Tobril #4. I diverge quite a bit though. In essence, Time Travelling in Krynn is a muddy subject with some sources contradicting each other (heh, so what else is new). Chronomancer's vision is more "clean" in the sense it's modular and it strives to adapt to a regular AD&D campaign. You'll also want to look at the upcoming Annotated Legends. Tracy Hickman will present a treatise on the subject as an appendix. Depending on circumstances, I might update my article with the new info Tracy will present us with. P.S. Thanks Jonesy and Terry. I need a bucket now. ;)
#19 zombiegleemax Aug 30, 2003 14:56:58	Originally posted by ferratus That's another thing I don't like about it. I'm uncomfortable with forcing a non-standard character's background being forced to be an act of sexual violence. It works fine in small doses (such as with Tanis Half-elven) but I dislike wierd alien ** as a fantasy cliche. I don't have a problem with it.... thats the story... I am not gonna change it around just because it is distasteful, besides its not like i start thinking about every time i fight a goblin.... I mean, if you check out the picture of the Horde assassin, I'd sleep with her. With one eye open of course, but nonetheless.... ;)** Hmmmm... were you one of those guys who loved jessica in Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
#20 zombiegleemax Aug 31, 2003 4:44:57	Not me, lol. It was just a discussion of how in warcraft the orcs are a little more "good looking" than the monsterous ogres of Dragonlance.