Any info would be helpful, thanks.
-Kalanth
and your sig is wrong. DL is still in the fifth age. Maybe you meant to say SAGA instead?
Originally posted by talinthas
dragonlance.com hosts James O'Rance's rocking taladas info. go look there, cause its the best we have.
and your sig is wrong. DL is still in the fifth age. Maybe you meant to say SAGA instead?
Thats what I was refering to, was the SAGA rules, I just forgot what they were called.
But I more than welcome it back to D&D (more people will want to play it that way)
Originally posted by talinthas
having played saga and mtg, and wanting to avoid another dumb flamewar, i'm just going to say that you are wrong and leave it at that.
Good point Tal. Thanks.
Originally posted by talinthas
having played saga and mtg, and wanting to avoid another dumb flamewar, i'm just going to say that you are wrong and leave it at that.
No flame war wanted. I pretty adamently hated SAGA, and that is my opinion. You don't have to listen if you don't want to.:D
The old magic comparison is insulting not because it derides saga, but because its just a totally bogus comparison. Outside of using cards, magic and saga have nothing to do with each other. Its like saying that DL is the same as wolfenstein because they both have humans.
Honestly, i didnt really like saga. It was an ok system, but at my heart, i'm a dice chucker. I hated clyde caldwell's art for the boxes, and the whole flimsy boxsets themselves. I didnt like how the rules were all scattered all over.
But you know what? The design team for DL5a was made up of some of the coolest folks i know. They love dragonlance and had a deep passion for the setting. I totally respect them, which is why blatently wrong postings tend to set me off.
I'm not fourth or fifth, SAGA or D&D, weis and hickman or dl5a team, because i respect and admire all of them.
Originally posted by talinthas
heh. if you had anything new to say, it might be worth listening =)
The old magic comparison is insulting not because it derides saga, but because its just a totally bogus comparison. Outside of using cards, magic and saga have nothing to do with each other. Its like saying that DL is the same as wolfenstein because they both have humans.
Sorry if the comparison angered you. The SAGA was released during the height of the Magic craze and when I played it for the first time (and last time) all I could think was that I was playing magic. Play a card, countered by a card. It was horrible. I also respect the people who made the game, but that is not to say we all screw up something royal, even the best of us do that.
Originally posted by talinthas
in anycase, we have the DLCS now, so lets move on with the best campaign setting dragonlance has ever had =)
Yes yes, I much agree.
Originally posted by Kalanth
They came so close to killing the entire series off when they did the SAGA stuff. The sales plumeted through the floor, they lost money on it which is why they sold the rights off. Basically the SAGA rules turned Dragonlance into a new form of Magic the Gathering, and it was unapealing and hard to play.
It's already been said, for the most part, but I thought I'd just add this.
SAGA really wasn't like Magic at all. Both were card games, but the rules were no where near similar. But I do agree that the craze of Magic at the time probably prompted the idea to use cards instead of dice...but there the connection ends.
Also, it has been pointed out to us from TSR (at the time) and WotC later, that Dragonlance as an AD&D world was dead to them. The sales had plumeted. No one seemed to be buying the new stuff. All of this happened before SAGA, not after.
SAGA was TSR's brainchild (or WotC, it gets so confusing) in hopes of re-vitalizing Dragonlance as a gaming world. While some liked it, unfortunately, on the whole, it failed.
So...hate it if you want, but don't blame it for the fall of DL gaming...that came first. So really you could blame the fall of DL gaming for SAGA, if you want, not vice versa. :D
And then there's the complete resurgance of DL gaming...which I would like to think was in part due to the Whitestone Council, the Nexus, and DLA3e...but my opinion may be slightly biased. heh heh
Most of the stuff in saga was kind of confusing, but the spell point system was very neat! I liked it a lot, and have since incorporated it into a lot of games. Does anyone know if the Sorcerer rules are going to use the spell point system of SAGA or the Sorcerer rules from D&D 3.5? BTW, my SAGA rules were stolen, is there any place I can download a copy without breaking copyright laws, or is it still copyrighted? I'm to poor to buy a set, and as to that no one around me as any (i've called every store in a 100 mile radious!! I think I called Quebec once!). If anyone has any stuff that would be awesome.
Rosisha
Originally posted by Rosisha
Umm, I don't want to start a flame war just state something:
Most of the stuff in saga was kind of confusing, but the spell point system was very neat! I liked it a lot, and have since incorporated it into a lot of games. Does anyone know if the Sorcerer rules are going to use the spell point system of SAGA or the Sorcerer rules from D&D 3.5? BTW, my SAGA rules were stolen, is there any place I can download a copy without breaking copyright laws, or is it still copyrighted? I'm to poor to buy a set, and as to that no one around me as any (i've called every store in a 100 mile radious!! I think I called Quebec once!). If anyone has any stuff that would be awesome.
Rosisha
The DLCS states that the Sorcerer class runs as written in the Players Handbook.
Originally posted by Kalanth
I think this may be regional, the failing of sales before SAGA. While I was living in Maryland at the time of release, the Dragonlance items were flying out the door when they were present. There was one store I used to frequent that was for D&D, but they focuse on Dragonlance. They did quite well, until SAGA came out and nearly went under, till they decided to sell Magic cards. Bitterness runs deep with me when it comes to SAGA.
Well, unfortunately...according to TSR...DL AD&D 2nd ed sales were awful. Hence the reason they quit producing modules at least 2 years before SAGA was ever around.
So I say again...stop blaming SAGA for something it had nothing to do with. SAGA was the, "Let's give it one more shot" not "Let's do something new to replace what we've got."
If TSR said DL wasn't selling, then it wasn't selling. They wouldn't stop producing something that was selling like hot cakes, now would they?
Originally posted by Kalanth
The DLCS states that the Sorcerer class runs as written in the Players Handbook.
Yeah, unfortunately they retconned the whole system. They kept the "flavor text" from the early 5th Age stuff, but the rules system doesn't match it at all. It's quite frustrating.
If I were you (and you wanted to keep a 3e version more like the old sorcerer) I would check out the alternate rules on the Nexus (there are several). And see which one you like best and use it.
Personally...I like Rooks' in his SAGA conversion.
Originally posted by Brimstone
So I say again...stop blaming SAGA for something it had nothing to do with. SAGA was the, "Let's give it one more shot" not "Let's do something new to replace what we've got."
An amazing thing about opinions is that I am entitled to have one. So I figure it is no problem if I blame SAGA for the downfall of DL.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Yeah, unfortunately they retconned the whole system. They kept the "flavor text" from the early 5th Age stuff, but the rules system doesn't match it at all. It's quite frustrating.
If I were you (and you wanted to keep a 3e version more like the old sorcerer) I would check out the alternate rules on the Nexus (there are several). And see which one you like best and use it.
Personally...I like Rooks' in his SAGA conversion.
I just run the sorcerer as is written in the players handbook with no changes to their actual abilities. What I do change a bit are some of the familiars, and make the region specific. Hence, if you are an elven sorcerer, I would have no problem with you getting a griffon when you have the power, but I would say you need to be in (or where it was) Qualinesti or Silvanesti lands to summon it. Course, I have one friend that swears up and down that the badger or ferrit are the best familiars to have.
the first death of DL was due to tons of crap 2nd ed modules.
Originally posted by Kalanth
An amazing thing about opinions is that I am entitled to have one. So I figure it is no problem if I blame SAGA for the downfall of DL.
The amazing thing about your opinion is that it has absolutely zero basis in well known facts that have been talked about, discussed, brought to light, and set in stone for many years now.
SAGA may have almost been the downfall of Dragonlance for you, personally. But that's not what you're saying.
You are saying that SAGA was the reason that DL gaming failed. And I'm telling you that you are wrong. DL gaming failed long before SAGA came about. Accept it, it's a fact.
Originally posted by Kalanth
I just run the sorcerer as is written in the players handbook with no changes to their actual abilities.
Sorry about that...I know I quoted your post, but really that comment was for Rosisha.
My bad.