I was struck dumb by one of my players and the stance HE was taking during character generation. Let me give you some background on the players' past:
In the eight years I have known him, every single character he plays is female, is always elven or human (or Irda in DL), is always capable of casting spells (druid, sorceror or wizard only) the thought of a non-spellcaster is abhorent to him. And is always depicted as being incredibly beautiful. This is what he always plays. Always. During the campaign his character always derides anything else of beauty he comes across (including other PCs) and is more often than not quite selfish. He always points to his Charisma as being a reflection of his PCs beauty (I personally don't think it should have one whit on Appearance but each to their own). Okay I can live with that, after eight years of GMing and playing with him in the party I have come to expect these traits.
Here's the problem:
His BEST friend who has played with him for much, much longer (there first RPG was together) decided to take a female character as did one of the other players. We rolled that stats and since the first player is taking a druid, placed their prime stat as Wisdom. His best friend however is playing a Wizard but wanted to play someone charismatic so placed his prime in Charisma. The third character placed her prime stat in Charisma also because she wants to play a centaur bard (which is cool).
During the night of character generation, the best friend (Wizard)made an off-hand joke about the First players (druid) low charisma of 15 (-called her a hag) because he complained about only 15 in Charisma, the other two players had higher Charisma scores.
The first player then spent the night firstly trying to find a playable race that would boost his charisma above the other PCs, then trying to tell the centaur player that because she is playing a centaur they cannot be as beautiful as her elf and then finally when his best friend jokingly reiterated his own eight years of 'My Charisma is 17 and yours is 15' b*******, flatly sat back and said then if he couldn't play the most beautiful character in the party then he wouldn't play at all! You'd think that once in the eight years of playing he wouldn't mind another character (and his best friend) taking that sort of role.
We are all around the 30-ish mark (some older and some younger) so I was just absolutely knocked off my chair by this juvenile crap. It has left a rather bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure I want to GM that particular game anymore which is a shame because some of the plyers are truly a pleasure to GM for. I just thank the stars that I run another DL game which has been going for almost a month now and is a true delight to GM.
Has anyone else had problems with players like this and how did they deal with them? Personally I think a GM has enough on their plate without having to deal with the insecurities of their players.
Arandur, deflated, depressed and defeated...:sad:
As for talking to him, I haven't at yet because he's the kind of player that takes those kind of talks as 'personal' criticism. I should just probably let him not play, if that is how he wants to act, but I'm the kind of GM who likes to give everyone at least one chance. Guess I'll have to give him a call tonight and discuss it with him. More crap a GM should not have to deal with, I feel like I'm a Kindergarten teacher...
Arandur
Besided, I actually never thought of CHA as a depiction of physical beauty, but rather how everyone around the character actually views him. It doesn't have to be looks either. The method with which he carries himself, his general attitude, whatever. Basically, for me, CHA creates stereotypes.
If one of my players has a high CHA score, maybe some of the NPC's won't like him because they think he's to self-centered and concieted.
Anyway, that's how I view it.
Am actually thinking of reintorducing in the 1st edition rules for Comeliness just to get that confusion out of the game. It's a personal peeve of mine when players take a stat and then use it to justify everything (ie: My charisma is really high so just because I called his mother an ogre doesn't mean he should be drawing his axe...).
Admittedly most of my players are actually really good and I guess it has been a really long time since I had to deal with this sort of thing. Usually they are intelligent and mature players who are some of the best RPers I have come across. That is why I guess I wasn't ready for it...
Now where's the damn horse so I can get back on...
Arandur
This guy is supposed to be ~30, and he's threatening to quit just because he doesnt have a higher number is a characteristic that's only debateably representative of his goal.
While physical appearance would likely have some impact on charisma it's hardly likely to be the sole determining factor and it should be quite plausible to design a character concept that could have very high charisma while being relatively unremarkable physically, or a low charisma character that's quite attractive.
All I can suggest is that you consider bringing back the comeliness statistic to deal with situations like this.
Such a statistic isnt likely to see much use but it may calm him down if he has an opportunity to roll for a stat that dedicates itself primarily to physical appearance.
Beyond that your left with little recourse but to discuss matters with him, and if he cannot see the foolishness of the scenario then your probably better off without him.
When that happens, they'll know the enemy is not themselves, and who looks the prettiest. The enemy is the creature attacking all of them, the DM. :-) Seriously, if they's arguing, throw a monster at them. at the very worst, the PC will die, and the guy can re-roll. At the best, they'll put asside their differences, and work together. And in doing that, they'll have party unity, and a common background, and camraderie that all good D&D parties need.
I haven't DMed in years, but when there was going to be a nasty fight between two incompatible players, Throwing a monster "Who came investigating what was making all that racket" will make the players totally forget they were fighting. A navy friend of mine one told me that Sargeants in basic training can be mean, nasty, ruthless and cruel. and they often do it to make the trainees hate him as a unit, thereby making them think as a unit, not as individuals. :-)
juvenile players have cropped up on me as a DM, but i fine this helps settle a lot of things. but pray you don't have a player who's juvenile enough have his/her character backstab a fellow character.
Originally posted by Arandur
Has anyone else had problems with players like this and how did they deal with them? Personally I think a GM has enough on their plate without having to deal with the insecurities of their players.
Arandur, deflated, depressed and defeated...:sad:
I had one. We started out as normal 3rd ed characters, and it was declaired that there would be character revision when the DLCS was released. He chose to be a Human Squire of the Crown, and Noble to boot. He then insisted that the Knight hood was a carbon copy of ancient England, and would argue with me when I said that it was not because he could not grasp any other government aparently.
The next problem with him came when the campaign setting was released. He switched his primary class to Noble, and took three levels in that (all characters were third at the time, so that was fine). He used to be based of a Fighter, but now he had a new class. We reach a point with a minor battle against three baaz draconians, and he refuses to enter the fray, when he would have charged in first, banner flying before. He declaired that the reason for this was he, "used to have a level in fighter, and now I don't so I suck at fighting. My BAB is crap now."
Anyone that has really looked at Noble has noticed that it has the same BAB as rouge, and therefore is pretty much only one point off from a fighter for the majority of the time. So, at third level he was only missing +1, and he had the same feets minus the one fighter bonus feet. This makes him suck in combat how? I ended up ending the campaign and now I am trying to recruit for a new game.
You're the DM, that means you're the boss. What you say is law, even if you're wrong. Your listening to his arguments is just flattery on your part. Considering this guy's childishness, it's unlikely any other DM will tolerate his tactics ... so if he wants to keep playing then he'll have to come crawling back to you. :DI don't know if it's the same in America (or whereever you happen to play (knowing me it's probbly in your deatails :P)) but in Australia it's allot easier to find a new player than it is to find a new DM,,,so if this person dosen't understand that D&D is about playin IN a group and thats the fun of it, then dismiss and dispel them, their obviously far to selfcentred to realise that it's the whole groups job to supply everybodies fun.
I've been playin online more than on paper lately and whilst 90% are grouse players it's also a lot more common to come across jerk players so my heart has hardened a bit to antics such as this.
If he has to play the most beutiful character (and how screwed up is an obsession like that; a guy that always has to be a beutiful woman???) then tough luck don't play,,,,I reckon find a new player for his spot and you'll probably find your games are lot better all round.
* I know I'm makin a pretty big judgement about this guy, but I feel that if the stituation has been described correctly then I am confident that my assumptions are correct*
(P.S. I hope you show him this thread
)Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
Cut out the cancer, and replace with new tissue as needed...
Healing the cancer would be harder, but also more rewarding.
Originally posted by jonesy
Healing the cancer would be harder, but also more rewarding.
Did you hear the man? This guy is 30-something and has played a girl for the last eight of those years.... Then he makes a scene because he wants to be prettier than the rest of the boys... This "guy" has some issues...
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
Did you hear the man? This guy is 30-something and has played a girl for the last eight of those years.... Then he makes a scene because he wants to be prettier than the rest of the boys... This "guy" has some issues...
***
Rosisha
Of course, that means all the "ugly" poeple are going to hit on his character. Constantly.
They'll be staring and drooling. Just what he wants. And the Gully Dwarf groupies. They'll be all over him and won't let him sleep, eat or exist in peace. They'll offer him dead rats, lizards, and who knows what.
And they'll want to go with his character on adventures.
Such is the price of beauty.
:D
Ok I like the idea with the gully dwarves, but unfortunately that would be like throwing gasoline upon the fire.
First of all I would like to say that he more than likely has some issues (hell, I think we all do) and I'm not qualified to comment on them since I have a problem with the 'let's blame everyone else and failing that let's blame society' outlook that many cultures have adopted so I'm not the most sympathetic of GMs.
Played yesterday and everything went OK, he has decided to wear a green mask (I think that is what they were called) from the TotL supplement in the elven equipment bit. He keeps stating that it is becasue he wants to be 'mysterious', but it isn't convincing. The other characters just keep asking him about the mask, then laugh and s**** to themselves so maybe that'll be a lesson in itself. Besides it gives me the GM a lot of plot hooks which I can't mention here because one of my players is lurking somewhere...
Oh and Mal, I'm an Aussie mate! Southerner (from Melbourne, where it's Sunny one morning and pouring rain that afternoon!)
I think Jonesy was right, healing the Cancer would be better...
Hey, Galdermanth jnr. stop kibitzing and do some work ;)
Arandur
Or, if you really want to honor the olden-days, have everyone roll up a Comeliness score. As some have said, charisma is NOT beauty. Comeliness is. Go find a 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana for the specifics.
Anyway, what your "friend" is doing is pure trash. I have toyed around with the idea of setting a rule that people HAVE to play as their non-usual class. Make sure you OK it with everyone first. You will have a blast. The wizard who had alway been a warrior, and the cleric who used to be a thief. Anyway, make the guy shape up, or ship out.
We did roll a comeliness score. It was kinda funny, since he still rolled the lowest out of all of us...
Seriously, I think it's just an attention thing. He was happy about the mask thing, because he still got more attention than the rest of us.
What can you do? (although I really like the gully dwarf idea..)
1 = butt ugly
10 = super model pretty/hansom