Our voice counts for something, and that is why I propose a letter-writing campaign on behalf of Greyhawk. When you think about it, letters are powerful things. They're tactile, take up space on a desk, and demand they be answered in kind. That's why I believe actual letters will have a greater impact on Wotc game-designers than an irrate email or a request thread on a messageboard.
The tone of these letters need not be aggressive (or rude), merely firm in the resolve that you would like to see Greyhawk receive more support and funding than it has seen in the past few years. Illustrate that you are a loyal customer of Wotc, one of many that wish to see the setting restored to its former glory. Tell them what D&D and Greyhawk mean to you.
Lastly, ask for your response. Do not supply an email address. Make it known that you have taken the time to write to them and deserve an equally respectful response. This will have a greater effect than you think. If you find that response to be dissatisfactory, you are well within your rights to continue your communication with Wotc, requesting that Greyhawk receive the fair and equitable treatment it deserves as D&D's classic setting.
Remember, this is your chance to be heard. Do not be dissuaded from what others might write in response to this thread. There is nothing wrong with consumer feedback. All companies encourage such behavior and depend upon it for their livelihood.
If you love Greyhawk, make your feelings known. All you need is a stamp, an envelope, a piece of paper, and a few minutes of your time.
Here is the address...
Wizards of the Coast
D&D Brand manager
PO Box 707
Renton, WA. 98057
Dear Gentleperson,
I write you today to advocate that Wizards of the Coast produce new products dedicated to the World of Greyhawk fantasy setting. As the oldest setting developed for the precursor to Dugeons & Dragons, the World of Greyhawk has great potential to augment existing lines of roleplaying game products. Greyhawk has a large and active fanbase that transcends members of the RPGA, and that desires to purchase official material.
While I do not know the business realities, I want you to know that I am ready to buy Greyhawk products, and I wonder why such are not produced. Please note that I have purchased the recently released Scourge of Worlds DVD, which I enjoy. I bought it because of its connection to the World of Greyhawk setting. Beyond that licensed product, I want to see Wizards develop a Greyhawk product line with comparable printing/binding standards to that of the Forgotten Realms line.
I very strongly urge you to meet my consumer demands.
Very truly yours,
~Marc Tizoc Gonzalez
http://www.troikagames.com/toee.htm
1. A polite tone can not be stressed enough.
2. Check your spelling! Be sure to run it through a spell checker at least twice before printing it out.
3. Your letter isn't the internet. Don't use internet slang or attitude. Do NOT write a line such as: "when r u going 2 publish greyhawk? netime soon? ur stoopid if u do not print a book soon"
4. Don't forget your name and address. It's not a promise of a response, but it makes you letter more personal and looks less like an annonomous hate letter.
Paper is better , you are right. harder to cancel or forget than e-mail, and more demonstrative.
I'll like thi spost to be sent to all greyhawk fan site.
It may be useful.
Makoma,
France
In short; this is a great idea, one that aims to get the attention of people in control of the setting. If nothing else, they will realize that we are not mindless drones that buy whatever they see fit to put on the market.
Greyhawk is long overdue and without the proper attention, will ankle obscurity in no time.
I hope this gets the attention of the big-wigs. I know a lot of Greyhawk fans and intend to spread the word regarding this letter-camapign. Let's hope it snowballs...
I poted on one of the other threads that you started for this topic, and My question didn't get answered becasue the Wizo asked you to limit the discussion to the original thread.
Anyawy, I'll ask again.
What products and how long ago were they released by TSR. The only one that I can really remember is the Greyhawk Wars Game ( which I thought was alot of fun).
I don't recall seeing anything else, but I stopped buying TSR products shortly before the whole player choice episode.
thanks
Deitus
Be polite. Be direct. Double check your grammar and spelling. And include a return Address. As mentioned by others on the subject.
Here is the appropriate Address to send the letter drive.
Hasbro Inc.
CEO
845 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10022
I've already sent my letter to this address and have sent one to WOTC aswell.
Wizards of the Coast
D&D Brand manager
PO Box 707
Renton, WA. 98057
*runs off to find actual pen and actual paper*
Also, we need to get this initiative beyond this message board. Is there some way we could reach out to all the Canonfire and Greytalk peeps? I only visit Canonfire occassionally and have never participated in Greytalk.
Find them here
Keep up the faith!
Also, we need to get this initiative beyond this message board. Is there some way we could reach out to all the Canonfire and Greytalk peeps? I only visit Canonfire occassionally and have never participated in Greytalk
Simple, troll each and every RPG message board that has anything pertinent to Greyhawk. Its already been done at Enworld and Gamingreport.com, two of the largest and most visited/respected resource websites. Send the call out to Mortality.net, RPGNow.com, PlanetAD&D, etc. Anywhere that has Geryhawk posters should have a brief message about the letter campaign. Although I wish you all well, I don't have very high hopes. Even a hundred letters probably won't net you all that much. Also, sending the letter to the Hasbro CEO is probably moot. The letter would go through several hands of secretaries and such before it ever reaches his desk, and that's simply not likely to happen. Your much better off simply sending it out to specific individuals who work for WOTC.
Originally posted by airwalkrr
Is there some way we could reach out to all the Canonfire and Greytalk peeps? I only visit Canonfire occassionally and have never participated in Greytalk.
Of course there is a way to get our attention...
Join Greytalk!
Pretty obvious I think, but seriously, I personally know a lot of Greytalkers that at least read these forums, and all of the Canonfire staff does so. I see a lot of folks here though that state that they are not part of Greytalk and then seem to wonder why we aren't aware of the ideas here.
The revival letter was posted on Greytalk and Canonfire, but as for the statement that you should spam every greyhawk list known to mankind, let me say this. If you're an unknown and post only once to spam your cause, Greytalkers will likely ignore you. It takes a lot of patience and posting to get anyone there to pay attention to you. Also, as the moderator of the Canonfire forum, I can speak authoritatively on the fact that signing up for our forum simply to make one spam post looks pretty bad in our eyes. Everyone's welcome to participate, of course, but simply showing up once to post your announcement and then vanishing is not participation, it's spam. Be considerate of the owners and especially the users of the forums you choose to use to spread your message, people are a lot more likely to respond positively.
"Join my club on a regular basis or no one will take you seriously, even if you are trying to do something that people may actually want to see happen. You will, in fact, be labeled a spammer."
So only Greyhawk/Canonfire insiders carry weight with the community? Ambitious start-ups need not apply?
I can see where Canonfire got its reputation.
Originally posted by UnderToad
That is...
"Join my club on a regular basis or no one will take you seriously, even if you are trying to do something that people may actually want to see happen. You will, in fact, be labeled a spammer."
So only Greyhawk/Canonfire insiders carry weight with the community? Ambitious start-ups need not apply?
I can see where Canonfire got its reputation.
Excuse me?
It was asked how to get canonfire/greytalkers to pay attention to something being said here.
How else would you expect to get heard?
Hey, how do i make sure radio fans hear my song? make a music video? Common sense, folks. If you want to get the attention of a certain group, go to where that group talks.
Now, I can tell by your attitude that you've had one of 3 experiences with greytalk:
1> You haven't bothered.
2> You joined, got ignored by the regulars (hence my point about participating to get accepted), or
3> You've been on GT and quit for some reason.
If the answer is 2 or 3, you'll know, and anyone here on GT can attest, if you show up and only post one or two things then dissappear, you will be ignored. That's not elitism on my part, it's just a simple statement of how that community works. I've only been involved for about 4 years now (greytalk is 10 years old this year), and YES, I was ignored for a long while. I kept my axe to the grind and eventually got listened to, sometimes.
Keep your prejudgements about me or canonfire to yourself, thank you. If questions are asked, I plan to respond.
And, btw, as I said before, don't spam our forums.
Yes, I post canonfire announcements here, BUT
Tizoc, Grodog, TheocratIssak, PluffetSmedger and I (the canonfire staff) all post here to varying degrees of regularity. We participate here, thus I don't feel bad about making a few announcements now and then. If someone like ColdPenguin or Delglath (to name 2 off the top of my head) who are regulars here and on cf/gt to some degree, want to come make announcements on the canonfire forum, go for it! That's what it's there for. If someone who has never posted on canonfire or greytalk shows up and spams our forum with one announcement and then disappears, THAT is what I was saying I would frown upon.
If you're an unknown and post only once to spam your cause, Greytalkers will likely ignore you. It takes a lot of patience and posting to get anyone there to pay attention to you
It seems I was misunderstood. I was most definately not meaning to run out and spam unknown forums (especially not Canonfire since I was taking it as a whole hearted assumption that mentioning the letter writing campaign would happen from one of the staff members who frequent this forum as well such as the aforementioned individuals). What I meant was, there are quite a few forums across the net that deal with roleplaying games. If your a member of one of those forums and in respectable community standing, then by all means, address that forum/message board/email list about the issue and gauge the response.
As Chatdemon put it, if you spam ANY board as an unknown, you'll likely be called a troll, flamed so bad that you no longer regenerate lost limbs, and be forgotten by dinner time. GreyTalk is not the exception to the rule of elitism (and I do not mean that in a bad way). Just like any group of friends won't take too kindly to someone just barging in on their fun, message boards, persistent chat rooms, mailing lists, etc all develope a sense of community similar to a cadre of friends. It takes time to make friends in the real world and online communities are no different. Earn the communities respect by participating, behaving appropriately, etc and you'll likely be accepted as a new 'friend' of the community in no time at all.
The guys at Greytalk/Canonfire have repeatedly said that they do not wish to exclude anyone. Anyone who is a fan of Greyhawk, and who will not try to post material concerning other worlds (ie. The Forgotten Realms) is welcome to join both forums.
Canonfire has made several changes to thier website in an attempt to make it more "user/newbie friendly". Therefore it would be unfair to state that they are an elitest club.
The "Reputation" is wrong!
I know it seems overwhelming, due to all the big names that visit the site, but give it a chance. Don't prejudge it.
The "Reputation" is wrong!
Sorry, but I wasn't simply refering to just Canonfire, I was being far more general and speaking of almost any online community. Its not elitism in the exclusive sense, but like I said, it is a community of friends. Of course they are accepting of newer people, but, as Chatdemon points out, simply droping by Canonfire to spam out is not the same as becoming an accepted part of that community. Any community works that way. I'm not bashing or flaming. Its not hard to be accepted as a member of Greytalk, but spaming them out surely isn't a way to get people anywhere to take you seriously. Believe me, as an overly outspoken self titled advocate of Dark Sun, I do understand what it takes to get people to listen to you on various online communities. It takes time, a little patients, and the ability to become an accepted member of whatever community your involving yourself with. There's nothing wrong with they way things work at Canonfire. It has a very strong sense of community. As it should.
simply droping by Canonfire to spam out is not the same as becoming an accepted part of that community.
I agree. Iknow that you didn't mean to single out Canonfire. My staement was really directed to UnderToads assesment of Canonfire.
As I was eloquently told on these boards that Canonfire is no doubt the hub of many "In" Jokes. I had to restate that I had the upmost respect for that community. The community including Chatdemon responded in kind again eloquently showing no hostility to those who had accused them of eliteism.
Since then I try to correct those whom still have that "feeling".
It takes a lot of patience and posting to get anyone there to pay attention to you.
I agree, thats how it should be. How else are you to be taken seriously... Take the time to get to know the people that you want to reach. As a community the will be more receptive if they know you.
Of course there is a way to get our attention...
Terrific Idea! See you there!
The more letters the better!! C'mon Hawkers!!!
Originally posted by mystic clown of death
Silence is a justified reason to write a number of follow-up letters...
Yeah, I gave that a shot, too, though at present I have nothing to report.
Let's keep up the barrage.
1. Many people, all over the internet, were producing WebHawk.
2. Because AOL had an initial "official" TSR site, many, many 'hawkers gathered there.
3. Some members from that site formed the "Council of Greyhawk." (We were ultimately called elitist and exclusionary by some...and we may have been by default, but that wasn't our aim)
4.The Council produced the "Oerth Journal."
5. We carried on several interactions with TSR about the resurrection of Greyhawk (I don't by any stretch of the imagination mean that we were the only people so engaged, and it is even possible that some within TSR were thinking about this anyway, but our voice was probably the loudest and most organized outside of TSR). We definitely were responsible for helping shape TSR, and later WotC web policy at the time, and about how net-zines were handled.
6. TSR was purchased by WotC
5b. Redux, except with WotC.
7. WotC decides to reinvent Greyhawk.
8. Team Greyhawk was formed. Erik Mona and I were pulled from that community (AOL/Council of Greyhawk) to be a part of Team Greyhawk. I like to think it was because the combination of our knowledge of the setting with our passion for the setting. Erik would argue about my knowledge ;)
9. Erik takes the reigns at RPGA for 'hawk, and Dungeon/Poly
Moral? People from the internet can and do make a difference in presenting a voice to companies. And these usually come from focussed efforts of groups. Canonfire/Greytalk is, at present, in much that same position that the AOLboards/Council of Greyhawk was in in the mid-to-late 90's. Ergo, participating in Canonfire/Greytalk is good (as is posting here, andin other forums).
The main differences now, though, is that the RPGA is moving Greyhawk, and Hasbro hasn't shown any interest in the setting. I'm not even sure if there are any 'hawkers left at Hasbro/WotC, or, if there are, there aren't many. They have the Realms, they have a new setting. The likelihood of them spending time/effort/energy/
resources/money on Greyhawk is much less likely now than once upon a time.
But, I am a firm believer in loud voices!
Steve W.
Seems like the majority of Greyhawker's, myself included, would like to see a big hardbound campaign setting like the FRCS. Something with good setting info like the LGG but also some 3rd edition specific stuff such as prestige classes or certain subraces, unique monsters whatever.
Personally, I'd enjoy seeing a "Life in Oerth" chapter as I thought the "Life in Faerun" chapter to be very cool in the FRCS. I'd also like a "Magic in Oerth" chapter as well.
That's something many of us have been saying all along!
Yes, there are TONS of Hawk fans out there!
:D