Moon Conjunctions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Moon Conjunctions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 31, 2003 10:37:36 Hi

Just re-reading the detail of alignment/conjunction bonuses from the moons for WoHS in the DLCS (pp. 74 & 93/94).

Are two moons in conjunction when:
a) they are both in the same phase, or
b) when the moon's 'day' is touching another moon's 'day' on the Moon Tracking Chart (p.94)?

The information regarding frequency of conjunctions on p.93 seems to imply that Option B is correct, whilst the information on p.74 seems to imply Option A is correct. However, I could not see an absolute definition of conjunction/alignment anywhere.

Also, could someone explain how the phrase on p.93 (5th para.), which reads...
"On certain days, Nuitari enters conjunction with one moon in the morning and the other moon at night, while Lunitari and Solinari are not in conjunction with each other."
...can be seen on the Moon Tracking Chart?

Thanks
#2
zombiegleemax
Sep 02, 2003 2:49:18 I always thought it was when they all lined up on the chart... Maybe there will be more information in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book...
#3
cam_banks
Sep 02, 2003 7:51:26 They're aligned when they're in the same phase. If Solinari's in waning crescent and Lunitari's also in a waning crescent, then consider them to be aligned.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 02, 2003 15:25:44 Thanks for the replies. Apologies for being so pedantic about this but I've still got some questions and clarifications if it is by phase:

Quotes are from p.93 of the DLCS:

"Nuitari is in conjunction with one of the other two moons about one day in every four"
I see now this must mean that one in every four days its in conjunction with Solinari, and one in every four days it is in conjunction with Lunitari - i.e. roughly every two days it is in conjunction with either Solinari or Lunitari. I did a spreadsheet which showed it to be every 2.31 days in an example year.

"[Nuitari] meets Lunitari about once every eleven to twelve days"
My spreadsheet showed it to be about every seven days on average in my example year. My guess is that its a similar difference for Solinari.

"A genuine conjunction of all three moons is rare, occurring about three times every year and a half" and this is also backed up by the quote on p.74: "...the Night Of The Eye occurs in a cycle of 504 days"
My spreadsheet shows phase conjunctions of all three moons occurred about twelve times in an example year. A conjunction in high sanction occurred three times in the example year.

"Most often the conjunction lasts for only one night, but it sometimes stretches out to two"
This should be the other way round - mostly it lasts two nights, whilst sometimes it only lasts for one.

"Lunitari and Solinari come into conjunction with each other only about every four and a half months, but their conjunctions last for seven or eight days in a row"
My spreadsheet showed them meeting 16 times a year - more often than once a month, and they met for random intervals from between 2-7 days (possibility of only 1 day).

Finally, there's the quote in my first post about Nuitari in conjunction with the other two moons in the morning and at night separately, which makes no sense with the 'phase' explanation as Nuitari's phases align perfectly with the other two moons. Mind you, it makes little sense to me anyway. Could anybody enlighten me?

Thanks in advance. Just trying to manage my calendar and WoHS, not having a go.
#5
iltharanos
Sep 02, 2003 21:06:10 This is a little off topic ...

Has anyone noticed how the waning and waxing crescent images are reversed from what they should be?
#6
Granakrs
Sep 02, 2003 22:47:20 iltharanos, There are actually several things about the wheel that need to be addressed.

First, Yeah, those two crescents are reversed. good eye.

Second, the moons are actually inverted like a negative photo plate.

Third, (and this bugs me), Full moons for Solinari and Lunitari are set as boxes. Lunitari happens high Sanction happens to be one a line between two boxes. I would like to see one straight line, or one straight set of boxes, like Matt Haag's Taladan Moon tracking chart Seen Here

So, the new moon is dark. going counter-clockwise, Waxing Crescent has a black sliver on the right side of the moon. The dark crescent fattens to the first quarter (again with the dark side representing the bright portion of the moon), growing to a full moon (Which appears like a circle on the wheel).

Hope that helps.

SimonCollins wrote:
My spreadsheet shows phase conjunctions of all three moons occurred about twelve times in an example year. A conjunction in high sanction occurred three times in the example year.

That actually a common mistake I also walked into. Don't use phase conjunction to determine the night of the eye. Use Box conjunctions on the wheel. for example, Red 5 is in conjunction with White 5 on the bottom of the moon tracking wheel. Red 15 is in conjunction with white 5 on the wheel. Red 5 is not in conjunction with White 15. That's because the Red 5 and White 15 are not actually adjacent to each other.

A triple conjunction does not mean it's a night of the eye. A triple conjunction means that the three moons happen to align together in a straight line on the wheel. Think of our own clock. An alignment of the minute and hour hands happens a lot (nearly once every hour). But 12:00 only happens once every 12 hours. A triple box conjunction that falls on a time when the moons are all in High Sanction does happen except every 504 days.

If you wish, check out my moon tracking speadsheet on
Seen Here
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 15:22:29 Hi Granakrs

Thanks for your input. You said:
"That actually a common mistake I also walked into. Don't use phase conjunction to determine the night of the eye. Use Box conjunctions on the wheel."

I have to say your explanation fits better than Cam's with the information on p.93 and doesn't directly contradict the information on p.74 - in fact it mirrors the information on the Night of the Eye in that section. I did a couple of tests on the moon tracking chart on p.94 and the statistics on p.93 do seem to correlate with conjunctions being by box and not by phase. I can even understand now the last paragraph in that section!

I still don't see anything in DLCS to define it one way or the other except by this implication.

Jamie/Christopher - Perhaps if there is an errata document produced, something defining this aspect could be added?

Granakrs - impressive spreadsheet; are you going to update it soon to cover the DLCS too?
BTW, I did notice in the Granak Red-Silver sheet the ' Days Until Next 'True' Night of the Eye' cell did not seem to be updating properly.
#8
cam_banks
Sep 03, 2003 15:27:32
Originally posted by SimonCollins

I have to say your explanation fits better than Cam's with the information on p.93 and doesn't directly contradict the information on p.74 - in fact it mirrors the information on the Night of the Eye in that section. I did a couple of tests on the moon tracking chart on p.94 and the statistics on p.93 do seem to correlate with conjunctions being by box and not by phase. I can even understand now the last paragraph in that section!

This will teach me to answer moon chart questions without a copy of the moon chart! Of course Granak is right, given that the moons can both be up in the sky and waning yet not in a position where one is lined up (and in front of) the other.

Cheers,
Cam
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 15:58:40 Has anyone built any nifty little computer programs to track the moons?

It would be great to use as a DM with a laptop at the game.
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 16:23:49 Cythas - See the link above on Granak's post for a spreadsheet which does this for DLA, TotL and ToD. I'm sure Granak will be updating it for use with the DLCS very shortly! ;)

Cam - If I'd bothered myself to run a few tests on the chart first, I never would have needed to ask the question! :embarrass
No worries.
#11
Granakrs
Sep 04, 2003 1:27:19 Well, chalk that up to another updating project I have to do. I didn't realize that a Dragonlance product's list I've been keeping has been out of date for nearly a year. And there's the drac handbook. I will be working on another sheet for the moon chart spreadsheet, but it will take a while.

However I'm still researching on ways to upgrade all the sheets by including Ansalonian proper names for the months and the days of the week. You'll notice, each major race has their own name, and that means my sheets need to be a bit more complicated.

BTW, I did notice in the Granak Red-Silver sheet the ' Days Until Next 'True' Night of the Eye' cell did not seem to be updating properly.

Doh. never underestimate the power of bugs to crop up. If you wish, Get the spread sheet, and save the data that's creating the improper dating. Then privately email me the spreadsheet. That way I'll have the data you entered and find out why it's giving any screwy results.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 31, 2003 10:37:36	Hi Just re-reading the detail of alignment/conjunction bonuses from the moons for WoHS in the DLCS (pp. 74 & 93/94). Are two moons in conjunction when: a) they are both in the same phase, or b) when the moon's 'day' is touching another moon's 'day' on the Moon Tracking Chart (p.94)? The information regarding frequency of conjunctions on p.93 seems to imply that Option B is correct, whilst the information on p.74 seems to imply Option A is correct. However, I could not see an absolute definition of conjunction/alignment anywhere. Also, could someone explain how the phrase on p.93 (5th para.), which reads... "On certain days, Nuitari enters conjunction with one moon in the morning and the other moon at night, while Lunitari and Solinari are not in conjunction with each other." ...can be seen on the Moon Tracking Chart? Thanks
#2 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 2:49:18	I always thought it was when they all lined up on the chart... Maybe there will be more information in the upcoming Towers of High Sorcery book...
#3 cam_banks Sep 02, 2003 7:51:26	They're aligned when they're in the same phase. If Solinari's in waning crescent and Lunitari's also in a waning crescent, then consider them to be aligned. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 15:25:44	Thanks for the replies. Apologies for being so pedantic about this but I've still got some questions and clarifications if it is by phase: Quotes are from p.93 of the DLCS: "Nuitari is in conjunction with one of the other two moons about one day in every four" I see now this must mean that one in every four days its in conjunction with Solinari, and one in every four days it is in conjunction with Lunitari - i.e. roughly every two days it is in conjunction with either Solinari or Lunitari. I did a spreadsheet which showed it to be every 2.31 days in an example year. "[Nuitari] meets Lunitari about once every eleven to twelve days" My spreadsheet showed it to be about every seven days on average in my example year. My guess is that its a similar difference for Solinari. "A genuine conjunction of all three moons is rare, occurring about three times every year and a half" and this is also backed up by the quote on p.74: "...the Night Of The Eye occurs in a cycle of 504 days" My spreadsheet shows phase conjunctions of all three moons occurred about twelve times in an example year. A conjunction in high sanction occurred three times in the example year. "Most often the conjunction lasts for only one night, but it sometimes stretches out to two" This should be the other way round - mostly it lasts two nights, whilst sometimes it only lasts for one. "Lunitari and Solinari come into conjunction with each other only about every four and a half months, but their conjunctions last for seven or eight days in a row" My spreadsheet showed them meeting 16 times a year - more often than once a month, and they met for random intervals from between 2-7 days (possibility of only 1 day). Finally, there's the quote in my first post about Nuitari in conjunction with the other two moons in the morning and at night separately, which makes no sense with the 'phase' explanation as Nuitari's phases align perfectly with the other two moons. Mind you, it makes little sense to me anyway. Could anybody enlighten me? Thanks in advance. Just trying to manage my calendar and WoHS, not having a go.
#5 iltharanos Sep 02, 2003 21:06:10	This is a little off topic ... Has anyone noticed how the waning and waxing crescent images are reversed from what they should be?
#6 Granakrs Sep 02, 2003 22:47:20	iltharanos, There are actually several things about the wheel that need to be addressed. First, Yeah, those two crescents are reversed. good eye. Second, the moons are actually inverted like a negative photo plate. Third, (and this bugs me), Full moons for Solinari and Lunitari are set as boxes. Lunitari happens high Sanction happens to be one a line between two boxes. I would like to see one straight line, or one straight set of boxes, like Matt Haag's Taladan Moon tracking chart Seen Here So, the new moon is dark. going counter-clockwise, Waxing Crescent has a black sliver on the right side of the moon. The dark crescent fattens to the first quarter (again with the dark side representing the bright portion of the moon), growing to a full moon (Which appears like a circle on the wheel). Hope that helps. SimonCollins wrote: My spreadsheet shows phase conjunctions of all three moons occurred about twelve times in an example year. A conjunction in high sanction occurred three times in the example year. That actually a common mistake I also walked into. Don't use phase conjunction to determine the night of the eye. Use Box conjunctions on the wheel. for example, Red 5 is in conjunction with White 5 on the bottom of the moon tracking wheel. Red 15 is in conjunction with white 5 on the wheel. Red 5 is not in conjunction with White 15. That's because the Red 5 and White 15 are not actually adjacent to each other. A triple conjunction does not mean it's a night of the eye. A triple conjunction means that the three moons happen to align together in a straight line on the wheel. Think of our own clock. An alignment of the minute and hour hands happens a lot (nearly once every hour). But 12:00 only happens once every 12 hours. A triple box conjunction that falls on a time when the moons are all in High Sanction does happen except every 504 days. If you wish, check out my moon tracking speadsheet on Seen Here
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 15:22:29	Hi Granakrs Thanks for your input. You said: "That actually a common mistake I also walked into. Don't use phase conjunction to determine the night of the eye. Use Box conjunctions on the wheel." I have to say your explanation fits better than Cam's with the information on p.93 and doesn't directly contradict the information on p.74 - in fact it mirrors the information on the Night of the Eye in that section. I did a couple of tests on the moon tracking chart on p.94 and the statistics on p.93 do seem to correlate with conjunctions being by box and not by phase. I can even understand now the last paragraph in that section! I still don't see anything in DLCS to define it one way or the other except by this implication. Jamie/Christopher - Perhaps if there is an errata document produced, something defining this aspect could be added? Granakrs - impressive spreadsheet; are you going to update it soon to cover the DLCS too? BTW, I did notice in the Granak Red-Silver sheet the ' Days Until Next 'True' Night of the Eye' cell did not seem to be updating properly.
#8 cam_banks Sep 03, 2003 15:27:32	Originally posted by SimonCollins I have to say your explanation fits better than Cam's with the information on p.93 and doesn't directly contradict the information on p.74 - in fact it mirrors the information on the Night of the Eye in that section. I did a couple of tests on the moon tracking chart on p.94 and the statistics on p.93 do seem to correlate with conjunctions being by box and not by phase. I can even understand now the last paragraph in that section! This will teach me to answer moon chart questions without a copy of the moon chart! Of course Granak is right, given that the moons can both be up in the sky and waning yet not in a position where one is lined up (and in front of) the other. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 15:58:40	Has anyone built any nifty little computer programs to track the moons? It would be great to use as a DM with a laptop at the game.
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 16:23:49	Cythas - See the link above on Granak's post for a spreadsheet which does this for DLA, TotL and ToD. I'm sure Granak will be updating it for use with the DLCS very shortly! ;) Cam - If I'd bothered myself to run a few tests on the chart first, I never would have needed to ask the question! :embarrass No worries.
#11 Granakrs Sep 04, 2003 1:27:19	Well, chalk that up to another updating project I have to do. I didn't realize that a Dragonlance product's list I've been keeping has been out of date for nearly a year. And there's the drac handbook. I will be working on another sheet for the moon chart spreadsheet, but it will take a while. However I'm still researching on ways to upgrade all the sheets by including Ansalonian proper names for the months and the days of the week. You'll notice, each major race has their own name, and that means my sheets need to be a bit more complicated. BTW, I did notice in the Granak Red-Silver sheet the ' Days Until Next 'True' Night of the Eye' cell did not seem to be updating properly. Doh. never underestimate the power of bugs to crop up. If you wish, Get the spread sheet, and save the data that's creating the improper dating. Then privately email me the spreadsheet. That way I'll have the data you entered and find out why it's giving any screwy results.