Arandur
The clerics of all these differant gods cant be too similar. I mean a priest of Sargonnas the True lord of Justice should be nothing like that weakling pretender of Justice Kiri-Jolith's priests!
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
Yeah, they have me at a disadvantage, I buy anything dragonlance regardless of the quality.
Heh. Yeah. I'd likely buy it simply because I've been D&D Dragonlance-starved for too many years.
Originally posted by Arandur
I was wondering how many folks would buy a DL sourcebook that was roughly the same size as the class guides (Sword and Fist, Song and Silence etc.) and contained predominantly DL specific PrCs and tidbits of information for each of the classes?
Personally, I'd rather avoid a 96-page softcover supplement with a $20 price tag. Been there. Done that. Don't wanna go through it again.
(FYI, I have three class splatbooks: Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, & Defenders of the Faith.)
Originally posted by Ranger REG
Personally, I'd rather avoid a 96-page softcover supplement with a $20 price tag. Been there. Done that. Don't wanna go through it again.
(FYI, I have three class splatbooks: Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, & Defenders of the Faith.)
If you don't already have it, check out Tome and Blood... IMHO it's the best of the splat books.
Of course I am biased as I love arcane spellcasters.
Originally posted by RandPC
If you don't already have it, check out Tome and Blood... IMHO it's the best of the splat books.
Of course I am biased as I love arcane spellcasters.
Actually, I am biased toward bladesinger, so I downloaded the corrected version from the web site prior to 3.5e. It's probably the only thing I would want from Tome & Blood, except having to buy the book.
Nah, I'll wait what they have in store for the Complete Spellcaster supplement (a sequel to the upcoming Complete Warrior book due out in December ... for D&D).
Forgive me, but I'm still not a fan of $20 96-page supplement. Probably because I'm spoiled from 2nd Edition's Complete Handbook series (more page count to spotlight just one core class, compared to 96 pages to cover two, maybe three classes).
Don't get me wrong, I very much like the concept of prestige classes - as a matter of fact, I think it's one of the most interesting features of 3E. It's just that I don't like to see it overdone, especially in Dragonlance, which is a setting that encourages roleplaying rather than roll-playing. And in every setting, when you got dozens and dozens of PrC's, what's left that makes them so special?
I think the Core books (especially the 3.5 version) already offers a nice number of such classes. Add to that those in the DLCS and the expansions that are scheduled for release, and I think we should have enough variety to make everyone happy, and the whole "prestige" issue wouldn't get out of hand. Since a purely PrC-related book would probably add little to the setting itself, I feel that the effort should rather go into other products.
Sure, it's interesting to have hundreds of prestige classes to play around with, but after awhile, they just seem to be slightly different variations of others, and make little to no sense and eventually become confusing and difficult to balance. I know, some would argue that it adds more variety, but I think the trouble is more than it's worth. I would prefer a handful of tasteful, interesting ones that add specific flavour to the DL world and make sense. And, there is already plenty of different and interesting class/race combinations you can have, and, of course, if you want to make your character more interesting, develop an interesting personality and role playing style. Just my opinion, of course.
That said, I would still like to see more in the Age specific books that tie in with that era. And, admittedly, perhaps a separate book focusing on the gods more and classes for clerics worshipping each specific God might be interesting. There is a separate book for the Towers of High Sorcery, after all. And I agree it would be nice to have a different flavour for clerics that serve a particular god, rather than being so similar.
Just thought I would clear that up... ;)
Arandur
I know you didn't mean hundreds. But what I meant was that I think just adding some in through the age specific books should still be more than enough. Personally, I would prefer it alot more if they concentrated on material that expanded the world more, gave more detail and more role-playing ideas and such than adding more prestige classes, which there should already be a healthy and interesting selection from with all the currently scheduled books. But even though it might only be adding a few more, a dozen or so, it all adds up.
That is just me, though, and to each their own, of course. :D
The only problem with PrCs being delivered in sourcebooks and the like is that by the time they eventually arrive, most characters have already chosen a PrC (and a lot of PrCs need to be chosen at early levels to to work towards the requirements). Also, not a real problem for myself as I will be buying every sourcebook produced for DL (a fan's addiction), is that some folks may not wish to fork over money for a location setting of Krynn they don't play in to just to get a PrC they particularly like.
Just a thought or two
Arandur
There was no mention of hundreds of PrCs, just a sourcebook similar in design to 'Tome and Blood' & 'Sword & Fist'.
I guess that is what set me off, because frankly, I thought those books were pretty terrible. If you ever pick up one of the old "The Complete Fighter's / Wizard's etc. Handbook" from 2E, you'll probably see what I mean. They were a lot better both in regards to presentation and content, and had a lot of roleplaying material to offer as well, not just a bunch of rules.
The problem is that to warrant an additional sourcebook for prestige classes only, you would need a certain number of them - we're talking about a 96+ page book here, after all. And I just feel that, by definition, this would lead to the overkill Tyreal and I described, and all of a sudden, prestige classes in Krynn wouldn't be all that exciting anymore.
It's probably better, then, to have five or six truly well-developed prestige classes in every era-specific or region-specific sourcebook that will come out. As for the argument that this will force you to develop a new character when those sourcebooks come out, well, personally I don't have a problem with that - I come up with new characters all the time, just for the fun of it. Besides, there are the PrC's from the DMG and the DLCS to start with, so that should be plenty enough to do for the time being.
At first glance it does seem like a good idea, the number of exciting PrC you could come up with would be limitless. Unfortunantly you run the risk of turning this PrC sourcebook into another over powered splat book, in which min/maxers take levels in half a dozen classes. That fact alone reduces the 'fun' and unique nature of 3rd edition DnD. Second, reading a book only filled with PrCs will soon become boring. What makes many sourcebooks exciting is that they take a topic (for example the War of the Lance) and detail new rules, feats, magic items, NPCs and PrCs . It is the combination of these flavours which make a sourcebook exciting.
What sourcebook I would like to see is one based solely on the organisations of Ansalon. One that details the KoS, KoN, WoHS, Steel Legion, and any number of smaller organisations that they can come up with. They could look at the churches of the various gods (something that other campaign settings have failed to do), and maybe provide a customised PrC for each.
Faeyrl
Dragonlance is, in my mind, the ideal world to demonstrate how prestige classes should work in a setting. Prestige classes are used to develop roles within the world. It's a world that encourages the use of prestige classes, such as in the case of the various knighthoods and especially the Wizards of High Sorcery.
With the idea that prestige classes should fit a role in DL, it seems that one wouldn't want to overdo the number of prestige classes. One would want to have those that are necessary (i.e. knights and WoHS) or that help to further develop the setting or help develop setting flavor (i.e. Legendary Tactician).
Doing prestige classes for the sake of doing them is fine for splat books such as Sword and Fist. They're always generic enough to be fit in most campaigns.
However, when designing prestige classes for Dragonlance, I would rather that they be designed only for roles in the world, not just for the sake of designing them.
Just my two steel.
There is a richness that is part of the prestige class concept that often gets missed when they're too generic. I think the PrC choices in the Age of Mortals campaign book are about right in terms of diversity and specificity. Of course, a lot of them are spellcasters, but that's in some part to make up for the broad nature of 5th age base class selection.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Dragonlance is, in my mind, the ideal world to demonstrate how prestige classes should work in a setting.
I realized this when I was making up some NPC's that were former PC's from a campaign that I ran ages ago. Anyways, the characters each ended up with a prestige class based around how they were originally played out.
I ended up with:
Fighter 10 / Legendary Tactitian 10 (human)
Fighter 10 / Knight of the Lily 7 / Legion of Steel 3 (human)
Cleric of Mishakal 15 / Reighteous Zealot 5
Each of the characters I have now all plan on acheiving a prestige class as well. Dragonlance is just to well built for the prestige classes.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
However, when designing prestige classes for Dragonlance, I would rather that they be designed only for roles in the world, not just for the sake of designing them.
Just my two steel.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I mean, why did Wizards put the Prestige Class rule in the Dungeon Master's Guide instead of the Player's Handbook? Because it is a variant rules that DM should consider it an option (or not; their discretion) to make campaign-specific class as player's options, in addition to the core classes.
I'm not against PrC if it have a prudent role in a specific campaign setting. However, I am opposed to buying a product in the form of a 96-page softcover with a $19.95 price tag. You gotta give me more page count for that price, even if they're useful fluff like additonal details about the history of certain organizations that offers such prestige class options.