I have been trying to create a d20 StarCraft for some time, and only recently took up the work again. The hardest part for me now is to figure out how to make a decent Protoss race. So I would like people’s opinion on the following aspects concerning the Protoss (take note that I intend to use the d20 Modern rules for base classes and such):
Plasma Shields: How, from a mechanical perspective do you make them work in the game? A couple of months ago I treated them just like bracers of armor with a limit to how many days you could use them, before needing to recharge them. Then I recently found out about Shield Points for Starships in the Revised Starwars Core Rule Book. I liked how they worked. Shield Points regenerates per minute depending one size (of the starship) much like Protoss Plasma Shields did in StarCraft. But how to work it out and how much would such equipment cost?
Size and Attributes: Most conversions I have seen have treated the Protoss as Large creatures. Perhaps to justify that the Protoss are stronger than humans. Or maybe because the Zealot’s power suits look so heavy. But so does the Firebat’s and Marine’s powered armor. I believe that the Protoss are not stronger than a human could be. In the case of the Zealot, I intend to let a Zealot’s power suit to give an enhancement bonus to Strength instead of giving the whole race a racial bonus to Strength. But then again, perhaps it’s not needed depending on the damage of the psi-blades (which I have not decided upon yet).
As hinted above, my Protoss are going to be medium with a maximum height of 8 feet. I don’t think that they are so much taller or bigger than the average terran. Protoss Archons will probably be of size Large. I know that the StarCraft box says that Zealots are 3 meter (10 ft.), making them Large. But it also says that Hydralisks are 5.4 meter (18 ft.), making them Huge! I don’t agree with that, so my Protoss stays medium. Note: this is according to the chart found in the 3.0 MM.
So ... my Protoss (at the moment) has the following abilities:
+2 Dexterity: I actually see the Protoss more as an agile race rather than a strong race. But they really don’t need a bonus to any physical stat they way I see it. The Protoss have other means to achieving those (Plasma shields, robots etc).
+2 Intelligence: This may be taken from no where, since the Xel’Naga guided the Protoss for a long time. But once the Xel’Naga revealed themselves, the Protoss hungered for new knowledge and insights.
+2 Wisdom: I picture the Protoss as dedicated and devoted to the Khala, their people, and their homeworld, hence the bonus to Wisdom.
Take note that I am not saying that my version is superior to anyone else’s. This is just my way of seeing it and how I justify my “variants”. I just want some opinions on what other people believe are more “correct”.
You are right to give them intelligence and wisdom bonuses but I prefer warrior classes (zealots, dragoons) gain intelligence bonuses, templars and dark templars gain wisdom bonuses. Because they gather their people, they must know what will be done to make them perfect. And also they can be charismatic but it is up to you.
Zealot's base movement rate must be faster than the others if they are gonna catch the legendary zergling swarms
Another questions?
Protoss would definately get a Strength bonus of around +6 to +8 depending on how far you want to go. They would not get a Dex bonus, but would most likely get Int and Wis bonuses. Cha is up to you.
Protoss were once a tribal race that revolved around strength and hunting.
Plasma shields would either be a separate hit point pool, armor class bonus (deflection), or damage reduction.
You should not have (and there is not) separate races of protoss that get different bonuses. If you are going for a templar then you should have a higher Int or Wis than Str, much like if you are playing a wizard in D&D.
Protoss would move at 30 feet.
The warp blade is difficult to adjuctate. Dont try and mirror it's heavy damage in an RPG directly. Make it do a lot but not so much as it does in the game.
Anyways, I will only have one Protoss race ... I don't picture the Templar and the Dark Templar that much different from each other: only with different roles. But we really don't know that much about any of the races in StarCraft (except the terrans maybe). I am having to much trouble doing one Protoss race, so I think I will settle with just one ;)
The damage of the Dark Templar's warp blades will probably be dealt with something like increased psi blade damage (like the Starwars Jedi classes) or just normal sneak attack every other level. Dark Templar will probably be an advanced class, just like the Zealot and High Templar.
Well, the Protoss really doesn't have to be stronger than the Terrans (that is, with a racial increase to Strength). Depending on the size and weight of Terran power armor, Protoss Zealots will still have more strength because they wade into melee combat, unlike any Terran unit/vehicle. The way I see it the Protoss are just as likely to have a bonus to Strength, as it has to have a bonus to Dexterity. The only case were Protoss show of any sign of superior strength are with the Zealots. There's to little to go on (IMO) to make such a desicion, I think. Perhaps we will know more once SC: Ghost is released.
Zealot movement will probably be increased once or twice over the course of its ten advanced levels. So that it can catch up with the zerglings! :D
Yes, shuttles can only hold 4 Zealots in the RTS SC ... but ask yourself this: why would the Protoss design a transport that could hold so few warriors? Why not make it a bit larger so that it can hold 8 instead? From Blizzard's part, this was probably for game balance.
Still don't know what to do with the Plasma Shields thou. I really like the aspect of Shield Points recharging over time, once every minute or so. But by using the Vitality/Wound systems, it may be too complicated to keep track of all the different ratings. Or what do you think? Should I have three different?
Another question is dark templar's invisibility. I think it can be permanent improved invisibility spell.
Templars and warriors are same race bu they would be subraces like elves. (Moon elf, sun elf, dark elf, etc)
I agree that Dark Templar's invisibility is probably a permanent invisibility and/or greater invisibility spell effect. They will not receive this benefit when taking the first couple of levels in the Dark Templar advanced class. Having a permanent invisibility spell at 4-5th level might be unbalanced.
l337_monkey: I see your point, but I was thinking more along the lines that fitting 8 zealots or 8 hydralisks or even 8 ultralisks would be unbalanced in game terms of SC. At least I think that the reason why you can't have, for example, 8 zealots in a shuttle.
It could also be so simple that they are, in fact, larger than other units/creatures. But like I said before, I believe that the zealot power suit provides enhancement bonus to Strength (not that they really need it, since my Zealot advanced class provides increased psi weapon damage) ;)
Armor provides an armor bonus to armor class, not damage reduction, and there is no wound damage.
I've pretty much already done an extensive StarCraft conversion, and have found it best to stick with d20 Modern, which is a much more accurate and reliable rules system than StarWars.
It really doesn't matter which route I go with armor. That is, if it should provide DR (like in Starwars) or normal armor bonus. I could let armor provide armor bonus as normal and let Protoss Plasma Shields provide DR, but what's concerning me is making it to powerful. That's why I want somekind of "drawback" or something. Like requiring the Protoss to recharge their Plasma Shields over time or replacing them althogether etc. Or is this perhaps to harsh? Even thou all Protoss units had Plasma Shields in SC, I don't want it to be mandiotry. I cannot imagine Protoss Civilians walking around with Plasma Shields all the time. I believe that the Protoss uses them when they go to war or something along those lines.
Plasma Shields could provide hit point bonus as per a wall spell, but exactly which wall spell are you refering to?
Could you send me your SC conversion, please? I recall that you posted bits of your conversion in that past, but I think most of it was lost when the boards went down. I looked through the archives but didn't find much.
Most forms of protoss equipment and all technology needs to be powered by pylons (that's why everything needs to be built next to a pylon and even machines require psi).
Zealots are the elite protoss troops (advanced class) and are the ones bearing the powersuits (they are very expensive and hard to make).
Templar, the new protoss warriors, use khaydarin blades and ancient-style armor when entering battle. They can manifest very weak plasma shields (all protoss can, see protoss history) to protect them from ranged weapons while they close in for melee (the powersuit basically amplifies their plasma shields).
Originally posted by l337_monkey
D20 Modern uses much better planned and conceived rules similar to those in D&D (armor class and hit points).
Most forms of protoss equipment and all technology needs to be powered by pylons (that's why everything needs to be built next to a pylon and even machines require psi).
Zealots are the elite protoss troops (advanced class) and are the ones bearing the powersuits (they are very expensive and hard to make).
Templar, the new protoss warriors, use khaydarin blades and ancient-style armor when entering battle. They can manifest very weak plasma shields (all protoss can, see protoss history) to protect them from ranged weapons while they close in for melee (the powersuit basically amplifies their plasma shields).
Take a look at AU - they've got a spell called Defensive Field...
More to the point, Protoss can't make the shields themselves. Only powerful Protoss could do so during the Aeon of Strife. The current shields use technology to emulate those psionic shields. (It's a concept found in Alternity.)
As far as I remember they could all manifest shields in some fashion and were hunters in their ancient history, and will take their word over Alternity.
I suddenly occurred to me ... are you suggesting that the ability to generate plasma shields is an innate ability of the Protoss? As in that the Protoss can generate "weak plasma shields" and with the help of more advanced technology they can strengthen their shields? I can work with that ... I never thought of it that way ...
But if I go the route "shields provide a hit point bonus", how weak should the innate ability to generate shields be? Any suggestions?
Also, sorry about the very quick reply, I was tired and did not want to bother typing out specific text.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
Check page 79 of the SC manual, under Protoss Species Overview.
Yeah, I would, but my SC manual is unfortunately translated into Swedish, like all manuals for Blizzard games (I don't know why) ...
So, I think that my manual might conflict with the original one, so could you please quote that part or something? Thanks!
(page 79, Protoss Species Overview, paragraph 2, line 2)
"...During the Aeon of Strife, protoss warriors used focused psionic energy to surround themselves in impregnable energy shields. Over time, Conclave scholars and Templar sages learned to reproduce the energy shield using induced psi-field generators, which allowed even the smallest robotic machine to surround itself in a protective field. Protoss energy shields are effective at stopping all manner of physical and energy attacks, but they can be depleted during an attack."
a pylon?
Originally posted by Barrok
but what is a "psi-field generators"?
a pylon?
Yeah, I think that your right.
To clarify, pylons are simply used to power protoss technology and buildings, which explains why you need psi even when making shuttles and reavers (which are automated machines), and might also provide insight as to why Fenix's psi-blades powered down before he was attacked by a hydralisk (no pylons means no power for the suit).
I imagine that vessels and the like have a storage capacity that allows them to function even while away from their radius. Also consider that I dont think they would make more vessels than they could conceivably maintain, and you could look at the unit cap as the maximum number of units/vehicles that the pylons can maintain at a time.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
I'm not sure on your thoughts, but something I want to clear up is the misconception that I have seen in the past that people seem to think that protoss "eat" psi or somehow derive nourishment from it. This is false.
Forgive me for being blunt, but that's the stupidest idea I have heard tonight! No way are any Protoss of mine going to "eat" psi. One can assume that they require the need for some kind of nuisance, but receiving nourishment from psi is beyond me! It's like claiming that the terrans "eat" air or something!
Note that I am not insulting those that believe this to be the truth! I just cannot fathom the Protoss eating anything, like the way we do. There’s actually little proof of whether or not the Protoss actually need to “eat” anything. Anyways, this will probably be no issue if I ever complete my conversion, because we usually use the variant Upkeep rules in the DMG.
To clarify, pylons are simply used to power protoss technology and buildings, which explains why you need psi even when making shuttles and reavers (which are automated machines), and might also provide insight as to why Fenix's psi-blades powered down before he was attacked by a hydralisk (no pylons means no power for the suit).
Agree. Pylons can be used to power Protoss technology and buildings as per the game. By relieing on Pylons, Protoss equipment will draw no energy or psi from it's batteries.
I imagine that vessels and the like have a storage capacity that allows them to function even while away from their radius. Also consider that I dont think they would make more vessels than they could conceivably maintain, and you could look at the unit cap as the maximum number of units/vehicles that the pylons can maintain at a time.
I was thinking about something the other day ... do you think "moveable", as in transportable pylons would be possible? Not flying around like Terran structures, just moving them instead of warping the pylons from Auir. There must be some kind of reason for doing it the way they do it (not that it's not cool
). I was thinking that either because the Protoss finds it convenient to warp structures or perhaps the bindings of atoms in the Khydarin crystals (assuming that all structures are built or uses some kind of Khydarin) are too fragile for such a thing to be possible.
Well, just some random thoughts. :D
I would imagine protoss vessels and ships would have some sort of khaydarin reactor that would provide a good supply of power for it while it is away from a psi-energy network.
Such batteries would just need to be recharged via a shield battery type structure (probably built into gateways for ships) or simply by remaining within a specified radius of a power pylon.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
Such batteries would just need to be recharged via a shield battery type structure (probably built into gateways for ships) or simply by remaining within a specified radius of a power pylon.
What do you think the radius of a pylon should be? I mean ... how far can it reach? I take it that I would be able to reach further than in the game, because the units are ridiculously "large" in SC.
I was also thinking about the "Psi" limit found in the game. What happens if to many Protoss using power suits enters the radius? Would everything just shut down? I would think that the Protoss would have some kind of restricts or control, at least while within Protoss society. For example, not being allowed to draw upon the pylons energies while within large Protoss settlements or cities. It could also be "solved" by having different "frequencies" or something along those lines. What I mean is, having perhaps different pylons for different tasks. One for operating “regular” buildings, one for military structures and units etc.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
(wuch as the fact that in protoss history they were a hunter race).
Perhaps the Protoss needs the fur! Not that it would be "cold" on Auir, but Bengalas fashion might just be the thing in Protoss society ;)
Originally posted by Sertimon
Perhaps the Protoss needs the fur! Not that it would be "cold" on Auir, but Bengalas fashion might just be the thing in Protoss society ;)
Personally, I would like some Rhynadon boots or maybe something in a Ragnasaur.
Pylons have a 100 ft. radius of influence, however you may want to increase this value to a higher degree if you desire. Generally protoss cities have enough pylons to cover the entire city without overlapping eachother. Very important structures might have overlapping pylons. This does not improve or increase performance of the building's functions.
Maximum output is typically not an issue of a pylon, as they are normally used to supply power to large buildings and provide enough psionic energy to fuel a warp portal. However if you do wish to calculate the maximum output of one, give each building and unit a value of how many power points it draws and then provide each pylon with a maximum output value.
Buildings take presedence over units when it comes to whom the pylon supplies power points to first, and you can do the rest on a first come first serve basis, or who ever is closer.
Pylons are linked to a psionic nexus on Auir, so they is basically no limit to the amount of PP it can provide in a given day.
You can look at psionic energy in StarCraft as a constantly recycling source that is never expended, so as it is used it is renewed. This could be what happens to protoss when they die; their energy returns to Auir, kinda like in FF7 or somesuch.
At any rate, derive from this what you want to do, or if you want to kick around any other suggestions I'm game for talking about it.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
Maximum output is typically not an issue of a pylon, as they are normally used to supply power to large buildings and provide enough psionic energy to fuel a warp portal. However if you do wish to calculate the maximum output of one, give each building and unit a value of how many power points it draws and then provide each pylon with a maximum output value.
Buildings take presedence over units when it comes to whom the pylon supplies power points to first, and you can do the rest on a first come first serve basis, or who ever is closer.
Pylons are linked to a psionic nexus on Auir, so they is basically no limit to the amount of PP it can provide in a given day.
You can look at psionic energy in StarCraft as a constantly recycling source that is never expended, so as it is used it is renewed. This could be what happens to protoss when they die; their energy returns to Auir, kinda like in FF7 or somesuch.
At any rate, derive from this what you want to do, or if you want to kick around any other suggestions I'm game for talking about it.
That's actually a great way to treat it! Then I can scrap the "different pylons" idea, since maximum output and that buildings take precedence over units seems to be the most logical explanation. Well done! :D
Pylons will probably not run out of PP, unless as you put it, the psionic nexus on Auir is disrupted somehow. Perhaps there are more of these, one on Shakuras for example. Not that I think that this event would ever occur, but it could be an interesting scenario: all pylons suddenly stop functioning.
Since pylons are going to be based on PP, perhaps it would be easiest to base Plasma Shields on that as well. As in, that Shields draw power points or needs power points to fuction properly. I could even base Protoss power suits and weapons on this, but do you think it will become too hard to keep track of? Or just to annoying to use? I am not talking about giving a Protoss power suit a shield battery with, like 2 PP that lasts for 4 hours ... I was thinking about letting the batteries last at least for a couple of days. When not within the radius of a pylon, of course.
But if their energies return to Auir and the psionic nexus when a Protoss dies (I believe that you are saying that they become a part of the "world" or something along those lines), how are Dragoons possible then? Or can Protoss warriors decide when they are brought back to Auir, as in if they are critically wounded etc. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I cannot seem to get it to fit in just right.
Originally posted by l337_monkey
Interesting pics on the Ghost site, check them out.
Man! Are these cool or what?! I wonder what that new terran unit is, the one with the huge gun on his arm. The goggles remind somewhat about the ones that ghost agent’s use. Perhaps an evolved ghost? The new Protoss units looks really wicked! Can't wait to grab this game and devourer all the new ideas for my d20 SC game!
I think that I have found the guy that drew some of those pictures, if you are interested:
StarCraft:Ghost- New Concept Art released
Here is another, older thread from the same forum, but with "unofficial" fan art. Quite anime/manga-inspired, but quite interesting anyways. Might even try to use the neat terran unit with protoss technology:
Starcraft 2 designs
Essentially, the protoss could be like a solidified form of psi, and when they die the become psi again (note how each living protoss unit that dies turns into some sort of wispy energy and dissipates).
This is just a theory mind you, something I thought of just yesterday, but there is not a lot of information on the protoss that the public has access to aside from the StarCraft manual.
This recycling theory is works on the law that energy does not increase or decrease, it simply changes into another type of energy (the name escapes me at this time, but it shall be mine!).
Maybe the psionic matrix on Auir is a sort of heaven for the protoss (who knows what its like there), and they wait to be reborn, without any memories, or maybe when they die they actually go to 'Toss heaven where they live for eternity. Maybe only protoss who are "not ready" return to the psionic matrix and await rebirth, while those that have lived a full life are allowed to go to 'Toss heaven.
At this point its up to you because Blizzard certainly isnt saying anything and I do not know if they ever will bring up this point.
Yeah, Blizzard aren't very clear on these parts, since it really doesn't have any impact on the games. But it would be intresting to know their point of view.
By the way ... what special abilities have you given the Protoss? Except for telepathy and racial attribute bonuses? I was thinking about giving them some innate psionic abilities or something, but can't decide which ones are most appropriate.
Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks!
+8 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int
Large size
Telepathy 100 ft.
Natural amor +2 or +3
Slam attack (1d6 plus Strength modifier)
Darkvision 60 ft.
4d8 HD
Thinking of giving them the Wild Talent feat for free, letting them pick their own psionic powers.
Also giving them access to psionic feats like Inertial Armor (to emulate the psionic barriers), might give them this feat for free instead of Wild Talent.
I was going to have their nerve endings perform some sort of of function like empathic transmission or psionic detection, severing them would be a prerequisite for a feat that allows you to become a dark templar (they all severed their tendrils).
Also, I was going to have protoss absorb nutrients through their skin to eat (they would literally bathe in the blood of their enemies) like dermal nourishment. They would carry canisters full of nutrient paste that they would apply to their skin. This is something that was thought of in the Antioch Chronicles.
Pylons may only be a common sight on protoss bases built off of Auir, and even then only for newly made ones. Well established protoss cities might sport other architechture (such as the temples seen in SC:G screenshots), buildings with built-in khaydarin cores, or an underground power matrix that supplies power to every structure without the need for obvious power pylons (that are prime bull's eyes).
Pylons are also crafted from khaydarin crystal, which has powerful psionic abilities (I would image that they use them to make crystal capacitors and other gem-like psionic devices). Khalis crystals are attuned to the "light" and might provide ways to empower or enhance psionic abilities used by high templar or other prestige classes, while uraj is attuned to "dark" energy, which enhances dark templar and archons. Any rate, back on topic.
Perhaps pylons arent even used to power shields, but simply to maintain equipment functionality, and shields might have to be replenished at a shield battery.
As for normal equipment, I give them about eight or so hours of being operational before running out and the suit ceases all functions (psi-blades, shields, etc). This might help balance out the issues of having a huge suit of powered armor that provides nifty weapons, features, and shields. Each minute something remains within the radius of a pylon recharges one hour's worth of power to the suit.
Psionic classes can expend power points to recharge time on their vehicles, but the amount should be considerable.
Also, we should consider the effects of having khalis and uraj-based pylons.
Giving them the Wild Talent feat might be a good idea. Choosing their own powers also lends to that all Protoss will be somewhat unique. Just have to remove some powers that do not fit, such as Finger of Fire, Missive etc. Perhaps add a few more from Psionics Handbook as well.
As noted before, telepathy is a racial trait in my version as well. But I use a variant telepathy ability that enables target creatures to resist telepathic contact if it succeeds at a Will save. I am still unsure on whether to go with Low-Light Vision or Darkvision. Currently it's leaning towards Low-Light Vision, mostly because I don't want them to be able to see in total darkness. However, it's probably more true to the game that way, since we never see Protoss using lights the same way as terrans do.
I really like the part that Protoss absorb nutrients through their skin. Solves the eating issue and makes them a little different from terrans. Man ... it was a long time since I played through the Antioch Chronicles! I can't even recall that part! I think I still have them on my hard drive, might have to try it out again
I am also thinking about removing creature types altogether. The reason for this is that we're not going to have that many different races, and "bane" weapons and the like are going to non-existent. This is what I could count: Abberations, Animals, and Humanoids (and perhaps a fourth for the Protoss). The second reason for this is that I can't seem to fit the Protoss in any category. I figured that they "might" be aberrations as well, because they are an alien species. But then again, so are the humans to the Protoss. They could be humanoids, but probably not: they don't have mouths, four fingers, weird legs, psionic abilities etc. Not having much else to choose from, I figured that they are most likely to be monstrous humanoids. Because they are hardly magical beasts or outsiders. They could be giants, if they were size Large or bigger, but alas, they are Medium in my version ;)
By the way, do you think the Protoss breathe and has some kind of "sleeping" pattern? The easiest way is to simply assume that they need to breathe for example, or otherwise they could survive underwater (which seems unlikely).
My rationale for a Large protoss is that they take up twice as much space as a terran does in a transport (this includes the dropship, overlord, and shuttle).
The nutrient thing is not mentioned in the game, you have to read the AC fiction to find that out. Not Blizzard canon, I know, but it makes sense.
They should need to breathe air (through their skin as well).
I made them Monstrous Humanoid type because they are humanoidish in shape but because mine are Large size they could not be Humanoid, although Monstrous Humanoid seems to fit them so well.:D
I wouldnt bother giving telepathy a Will save, there is nothing bad about it, its basically talking with someone so there is nothing really that bad if they fail the save.
I would imagine that they also sleep, using beds similar to a human.
When you say Dark Templars and Archons, I assume you are just referring to the Dark Archons, right? That the Dark Templars use Uraj/Dark Energy and High Templars use Khalis/Light Energy.
What do you mean with having Khalis and Uraj-based pylons? I am not sure what you suggesting exactly? Are you saying, for example, that Dark Templar need Uraj-based pylons to recharge their weapons and armor (such as warp blades, neutron flares etc.) In that case, I am all for having Khalis and Uraj-based pylons! ;)
So ... psi-blades are part of a Zealot's power suit? Interesting. I was actually treating them as separate weapons, based on the image found in the Protoss History chapter. The one by Samwise (at least I think it's by him). But it could help balancing by making them the same item and relying on the same battery. Shields should probably only be "recharged" by using Shields Batteries or simply replacing them when no Shield Batteries are available.
The way I understand it, telepathy enables the being to "speak" his thoughts into another intelligent being that has a language. What if said creature does not want to "speak" with the Protoss? Or perhaps he just freaks out when he hears a strange voice in his head and wants it to stop? I am not suggesting that telepathy is some kind of mind-reading or anything.
Agree, nothing bad happens when they "fail" the save. But there are many spells in D&D that allows a save even if they are beneficial. But I guess I could remove it, it’s just a flavor thing, not a balancing issue.
There are mixed emotions about this topic in my group. Some think that it should be a battle of minds and the winner takes all. Others suggest that the High Templars must agree before morphing/ascending who shall remain in control. Note that I am talking about two Player Characters having each a High Templar of their own. How do you handle this in your conversion?
Have fun! :D
I was suggesting that you might include Khalis or Uraj-crafted pylons...the exact benefits of them? Not sure at this point but it is an idea you could kick around, although if no practical use can be found then I would not bother including them at all (I presume that Khalis and Uraj is a rare crystal). Also, we cannot forget about the Argus crystal (dunno what it was for aside from being a corsair upgrade).
As far as I know psi-blades require a powersuit to utilize. Warp blades are another story, and I was considering having them be weapons manifested by the dark templar rather than a manufactured weapon (otherwise why dont the zealots have them?). Of course you could argue that it uses "dark" energy or the "warp" to power it, but then why wouldnt the templar use warp energy themselves? Basically its up to the individual GM on this one, but I have been working on a dark templar prestige class (use have to have a minimum PP base and you lose it ALL when you migrate to the dark templar class in exchange for the use of the warp blade, although now I suppose I'll change it so it works more like the lightsaber from StarWars).
I believe that there were two different Argus crystals, one for the Corsair and one for the Dark Archon. If I recall correctly, they were called Argus Jewel and Argus Talisman. I will have to kick around about the suggestion of two different pylons. I agree that she should be kinda of rare, since in the BW campaign they went through a lot of trouble to get the crystals. Perhaps only powerful protoss artifacts are crafted from these crystals? Or maybe Khaydarin Crafters (advanced class), Protoss that manufacture weapons and armor from the sacred crystals only have this ability. What I am saying is that these individuals cannot create a Khaydarin crystal, but they can change it to such a degree that it's more likely to channel either Dark or Light energy. What do you think?
Also, good idea about letting Dark Templar manifest their warp blades instead. I was worrying about the fact why the Zealots would not use the slightly more powerful Warp Blades. But I could also be because the Psi Blades are part of their power suit, and perhaps they don't want to give them up. Since power suits improve some of their physical attributes and strengthen their shields (at least in my version).
In my current version, a Psi Blade is a one-handed exotic weapon that deals 2d6 points of energy damage with a critical range of 19-20. A Warp Blade uses the same stats but dealt 2d8 points of energy damage instead. To you think this might be overpowered?
http://www.blizzard.com/ghost/insider/calldowns.shtml
Also, this was actually a prestige class (the high templar was an advanced class; I used D20 Modern rules) and after the transformation all power points that both templar had were permanently loss, becoming instead its plasma shield pool that it had (this would give players a considerable amount of hp at the loss of all psionic powers). In addition they also gain the use of the psionic shockwave attack, which becomes more powerful as the archon levels up, in addition to other features.
Dark archons are the result of two dark templar, who lose their warp blades, which are transformed into psionic energy, giving them access to psychic powers in exchange for their powerful weapon (the sacrifice is reversed here).
However they also have a large plasma shield pool, just not as much as the high archon (or light archon).
Both archons radiate an aura of light which cannot be suppressed.
I was also considering allowing the archons to constantly act as if under the schism psionic power, allowing them more actions each round (makes sense), although this might be a might bit too powerful.
If for any reason the archons do not agree on a course of action, both may make opposed Wisdom checks, the highest gaining control of the body for one minute before having to make another opposed Wisdom check.
Schism would work very well, fits your theme of the archon. I am not so sure about the two minds thing. In the case of two PCs, I would rather have it that one of them has control.
I hate when that happens!
Psi-Weapon Damage on the Dark Templar and Zealot Advanced Classes increases by one Die at 2nd, 5th and 8th level. But I am thinking about lessening the bonus for the Zealot, since they generally wield two Psi-Blades (and Dark Templars will only wield one Warp Blade). In such case, damage of the Psi-Blade will increase at 5th and 9th level.
This might be taken from nowhere, but I seem to recall that Protoss that could not control their innate battle rages were sent to the Templars to learn the path of the Khala. I don't see this rage as a reckless barbarian rage (as per the D&D class), rather a strange state of "raging control". Perhaps caused by the events of the Aeon of Strife. In this state, the mind is relaxed, focused, and filled with pure emotions that provide a fuel for rapid processing (the last bit is actually taken from my Berserk Advanced Class for d20 Modern "Fantasy" game). I was wondering if your Zealots have a similar ability?
Yeah, I read something the other day that since the Dark Templar severed their nerve-appendages, they no longer draw upon the psionic energies used by the Templars. Instead they draw power from the "dark, cold void of space".
In addition they would also get a rage like ability, which would be similar to the barbarian's rage (fury and such).
-just a thought
Yeah, if you look at the game SC, protoss plasma shields rechange over time no matter where they are located. These shields will either drain energies from its shield batteries, or the protoss itself (using power points, if they have a psychic advanced class).
Another thing to consider, but makes it a little trickier is the fact that Fenix's psiblades (and probably power suit as well) either malfunctioned or ran out of batteries. I am betting that the batteries went out, and fit how we built things up to this point. This can be seen in the first cinematic of the protoss campaign.
Zealots will have power points, but will use them to function their psiblades, power suits, and plasma shields. Most protoss equipment and technology will be based upon khaydarin cores or crystals (or whatever designs they claimed from the Xel'Naga), including power suits. At least, I think they learned the secrets of the khaydarin crystals from the Xel'Naga. Have to check the manual later.
As for the crystals, my understanding was that they enabled the focus of psionic energies. the protoss units carried their own, which enabled the focus of their mental energies, allowing them to channel it for various uses. once again, powered by intelligence... or wisdom, however you look at it. The way i see it, pylons aren't necessary for running the indvidual equipment much more then a comfortable bed is to sleep. i mean a protoss might feel less comfortable in an area not bathed in psi energy, but they should be able to deal with it for at least a week...
As for archons, i want to see a High and Dark templar form an archon. it'd be unstoppable... or would it just blow up,... like the xel naga temple... any thoughts?
This might be why Fenix's suit failed, who knows?
Also, zealots do not possess psionic abilities; they focused on enhancing their martial prowess. A zealot advanced class would be similar to possibly a soldier and a martial artist, although the zealot regalia (powersuit and such) might be a first level class feature, like the ancestral daisho for the samurai.
I figure shield continue to slowly regenerate so long as the equipment remains active.
ECL: +2 or +3, depending on what it ends up like (but I would definately not give them a lower ECL than that, they have to be better than Terrans).
Size: Large, which gives a strength bonus, but the race gets no further strength bonus. (An enhancement bonus on Zealot's armors is good idea, though).
Racial modifiers: +2 Int, +2 Wis and perhaps +2 Con (but that's just me). (If you think that the race is too weak overall, for a +2 ECL, then you might consider +4 bonuses... perhaps only for Wisdom).
Special traits: Plasma shield: a Protoss receives a deflection bonus to AC equal to its Wisdom modifier. (I think that a different pool of HPs is too complicated, and doesn't translate well the SC flavor into the D&D system.)
More... (gotta think about it)
Favored Class: Psion/Psychic Warrior? Or, if you want to create many clans, there might also be some focused on Monks (which can make nice Zealots, IMHO, if you consider Psi Blades as Monk weapons: they would hit and run fast, and get a few other supernatural abilities, perhaps the Monk class should be restricted to Protoss).
Just my thoughts...
I don't remember if this has been brought up before, but I was thinking about giving all Protoss bonus Power Points. These could be used to manifest psionic powers (as used by psions/psychic warriors) or to empower their shields. Another possibility that occurred to me, was perhaps one could let Plasma Shields convert damage to subdual/nonlethal? Or would that be to overpowered?
Currently, my Protoss have the following traits: +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis; +1 natural armor; telepathy, protoss rage, and fearless ability. The fearless ability grants a bonus to resist Intimidate checks and a bonus on saves against fear-based effects.
The Protoss Rage is similar to a barbarian's rage. I'm still undecided whether a Protoss should be able to end the rage voluntarily. This 'weakness' could be overcome either by picking a feat or entering the Zealot advanced class. This cause of this rage would come from the events of the Aeon of Strife, whereas many Protoss have suffered unnecessarily.
I like the idea of a prestige class for the archons, only available to them. Makes them a little more special. Might even decide to create an equivalent for the Dark Archons as well. I agree that archons should be rare, but I don't know if it should be hard to acquire the prestige class. It already requires the sacrifice of two high level High Templars, so I would probably just let the archon enter the archon prestige class after the merging. Perhaps they must perform some kind of ritual, or gains some form of enlightenment that can only be attained by becoming an archon.
Still hesitant to make the Protoss large. I might change my mind once SC: Ghost hits the shelves. Hopefully, one can gather this kind of info from the game, or at least compare Nova to a zealot or something ;)
Favored Classes is no an issue, since I will be using d20 Modern basic classes. These are based on each Ability Score (Strong Hero, Fast Hero, Tough hero, etc.)
I never bothered to make a "zealot" class. I just took the Psychic Warrior, and used specific feats. Speed gets upgraded by the speed of thought feat, and specific selection of feats and powers can improve damage and provide shields.
Originally posted by evangelion1010
On the topic of protoss stats.... they are indeed more powerful then humans. human marine.... 1 food. zealot 2 food. treat this like an ECL... I'd give them a good deal of mental atributes, but not necessairly so much strength.... they never really demonstrate any strength, and looking at their physical form, they look frailer then humans... almost no muscle, at least during the cinematics. To equate this to game terms, i'd almost have to say for additional damage, use the int mod, not str.... a lightsaber doesn't care if a bodybuilder or a 10 year old is wielding it, it still cuts through things just as easily.
to quote JD Wiker(head of Star Wars RPG)
You add your Strength modifier to damage
when fighting with a lightsaber. You also add it to
the attack modifier, but that’s a separate question.
For years now, there has been a widespread
believe that lightsabers are able to cut through
anything without any effort. There’s plenty of
evidence that lightsabers don’t act that way, just in
The Phantom Menace alone. First, we see Qui-Gon
Jinn slowly cutting through the blast doors on the
bridge of the Trade Federation flagship over Naboo;
if a lightsaber could slice through anything like a
hot knife through butter, Qui-Gon could have
simply made a couple of quick swipes, and he
would have been through. Later, when Darth Maul
is gloating over Obi-Wan Kenobi’s imminent demise
on Naboo, he slashes his lightsaber back and forth
across the lip of the pit, but he’s not cutting the lip
of the pit at all. He’s just making sparks. If
lightsabers cut through metals that easily, Maul’s
lightsaber should have taken long strips off the pit’s
edge, which would have been raining down on Obi-
Wan’s head. (SW Gamer #9, p.14)
so definetly add Str to psi-blade use.
also, what consideration has been made for dragoons? could characters be "ressurected"-for lack of a better word- in one? what would the reputation bonus have to be?
lightning storm whats the damage/radius on that?
and finally, will you allow players to yell "power overwhelming" and become invulnerable for a short time?:D
- Spring attack
- Point Blank/Precise/etc Shot
And weirder ones...
- Tremorsense
- Multi-tasking (I'm thinkink of a Dragoon that chooses to stand still on 4 legs, while the other 4 legs (or are there 6 in total?!) hold Psi blades, while he shoots his normal ranged energy missile)
Sick things are definately when Dragoons are around.
about protoss stats, in the manual, it said:
These beings were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates.
This might warrant a +2 con, or at least a +2 bonus to fort saves vs. harsh temperatures etc.
Originally posted by Hadrhune
If they don't gain strength bonus how can a Dark Templar inflict deadly damage with his warp blades?
BECAUSE HE'S SWINGING A WARP BLADE!!!
Now then, if the Protoss, as a race, are so strong, then howcome their frontline troops are partial to full cyborgs?
It's your world. If you feel that Protoss would/should be medium (and it would fit game balance) then make them medium creatures, make them strong, whatever floats your boat.
Personally, I added them to my list of races in SWG. Gave them +2 Int and Cha, -2 Str and Con. Now then, before you fanboys jump down my throat, go back to my 2nd paragraph. That's right, their "strong" troops are cyborgs. Dark Templar wield the equivalent of +5 Lightsabers. All Protoss units other than DT and Zealots use a ranged attack, and both of them have what is basically a lightsaber. I'm sorry, but Protoss, on average, are physically weak, and mentally strong (see all that advanced technology?).
BTW, Dragoons are basically walking tanks. They have that big plasma cannon and 4 legs so they can walk around and keep stable. They need all 4 legs to maintain stability, else they'd be able to fire on the move, and they can't.
At any rate, they are Large creautures and in my version will have multiple Hit Dice and an above average strength. I fail to see why an intelligent race must also be weak.
And actually, Dragoons can't shoot on the move, but neither can anything else. And as for being weak? Well, Vikings used swords and axes, and the US Army uses M-16s and .30 milimeters. Yet humans don't get Strength bonuses or Dex bonuses. The Protoss just use ranged weaponry because they have advanced technology. The Warp Blades and Psyblades are their advanced technology melee weapons, and both are put to good use, on specific troops. And they do seem pretty big, Large at least.
Throwing in my 2 cents, I don't think PCs should be able to become Dragoons. Too much of an effort, and definitely too much of a change. The things are as big as cars. Same with Archons. Those are around what, 12 feet tall? Plus you need another Templar for that. Which player would be in control?
Ill post my thoughts later.
FenixZero
I'd love to see someone develop this idea further. Sounds interesting.
That is what I meant.
I have plan on how it could be done. But its weird because I treat dark and high templar as different breeds of Protoss (which I think they are but anyway...). But the way that I thought of was a human (or another close race (elves?)) and put them in a gaint crystal. The crystal can be one the two special types the light and dark ones or any crystal.
The person is placed inside and given a breath tube/thingy. The crystal (which is hallow on the inside) is then filled with the same liquid as the Dragoons are. The process takes 4 willing protoss. Either 4 high templars or 4 dark templars or any combination equaling for. I favor 2 and 2. The templars combine into the goo, and it is used as Genetic Recombination tool, restructuring the humans DNA into a half-protoss.
I do it this way because the method that protoss use to breed is um.... unclear at best. If anyone wants to stat them out feel free.
FenixZero
And yes protoss Are much stronger than humans +6 to str wouldn't be Even close And height is any were form 6 1/2 meters to 8 meters it says that in the book with all the art in it
I don't have the book with artwork that you refer to ... are there any other specific notes on the height and weight for other creatures than the Protoss? Such as zerglings, hydralisks etc. Thanks!
Protoss work well with D20 Modern, Star Wars, Gamma World, D20 Traveler or D20 Star Frontiers.
Zealots do have a bit of cybernetics; the psi-blades are connected to them that way, and their leg upgrades may be cybernetic, or an upgrade to the armor.
Hey I've got an idea, let's make a new StarCraft sequel before i die of old age! Maybe a 4th or 5th race? I have 1,000,001 ideas for it, surely Blizzard has had some kind of spark in thier skulls since BW about a neat SC idea... This mad WC/D2xpac-craze has got to end!!!
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc-general&t=83926&p=1#post83926
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?FN=sc-general&T=83100&P=1
According to statistics on the StarCraft box, a terran marine in powered armor weights about 290 lbs. I am still undecided if terran powered armor should provide a bonus to Strength or not. In such case, it would probably be similar to what's found in Fallout or something.
I would give +2 Strength (based on Star Wars). A Hydralisk is 17 feet long (I would still make it Large, since it doesn't stretch itself out) and is, I think, 850 pounds.
The Protoss Rage is similar to a barbarian's rage. I'm still undecided whether a Protoss should be able to end the rage voluntarily. This 'weakness' could be overcome either by picking a feat or entering the Zealot advanced class. This cause of this rage would come from the events of the Aeon of Strife, whereas many Protoss have suffered unnecessarily.
I'd make the Rage a feat... I think only Templars (meaning members of the caste, not the unit!) are likely to learn the feat (and I'd let a High Templar trade it in for something else when they take the Psychic Class or High Templar AdC).
A Protoss is 9 ft. 10 inches tall (3 meters) and weighs 450 pounds.
Dark Templar are said to have adapted their biology to Shakuras (see the long description of the Dark Archon at www.blizzard.com).
Based on their size, and on their strength (no, really, read the beginning of the Protoss history at www.sclegacy.com) I'd give them +4 Strength and +2 Con (same as the weren). They're taller and thinner but weigh the same, and really, they are pure of form. Maybe +2 Int, definitely +2 Wis, and that would be it.