Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 9:50:49	Well, I was always led to believe that the gods couldn't be hurt by mortals weilding high sorcery or clerical magic, since it is the gods that provide them with this power in the first place, and could deny them their powers at any time... But what about the new primordial sorcery and mysticism? apparently one does not have to depend on the gods for these powers, so in a battle with a god, is this the kind of stuff you want to use?
#2 nasheen Sep 02, 2003 11:20:20	The Bloodstone of Fistandantilus worked well against the gods
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 11:24:35	How so? I don't recall it being used against any gods, just other wizards...
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 11:37:45	You place too much certainty in the Gods' abilities to tamper with High Sorcery. Clerical power is delivered straight from the gods and can be turned off on a whim, but High Sorcery seems much more complex than that. If it was so easy to deactivate one's use of the Moon Magic than the Three Gods would have stopped Raistlin before he destroyed the universe. Raistlin wielded the Gods' Magic to kill the Gods. Seems to me that its harder to stop the High Sorcery than you say. Sorcery could be used to damage gods but only at the epic (not Epic as in above lvl 20) power levels not seen on Krynn but once every millenia. Fistandantilus had the power but only from stealing souls. Raistlin had the power after eating Fistandantilus. Sure, someone COULD do it, but the kind of power it entails is far above even the High level of Krynnish power.
#5 nasheen Sep 02, 2003 11:53:05	Ok, i may be wrong, but i think that Raist used the power of the Bloodstone to absorve the gods on Legends.;)
#6 randpc Sep 02, 2003 11:59:15	However he did it in the alternate timeline Raistlin managed to defeat all of the gods, and from the bits we heard of his against Paladine I would presume it was done via High Sorcery. There is little evidence that Raistlin intended to use anything else against Tackhisis at least.
#7 nasheen Sep 02, 2003 12:05:45	Yes, but at the time he fought against Paladine he already was a god, but i agrre with you that against the Dark Queen he used high sorcery alone!
#8 talinthas Sep 02, 2003 12:05:54	raist never used the bloodstone in recorded dragonlance, and the only time it was used was during fisty's battle with raist. otherwise, we have no idea what it does or can do.
#9 rosisha Sep 02, 2003 12:35:12	Actually I was wondering if perhaps Raistlin had an intent to tap primoridal magic. Because when he was describing what would happen to Caramon (I think, this would be the 3rd book of course, but I can't remember the exact conversation or who it took place with), he stated that when he returned to Krynn, with the Queen of Darkness following him, everyone would rally to his banner, including the elements themselves, placing themselves at his disposal to defeat the Queen. Now I don't know if you could tap primordial magic with High Sorcery magic (but with Raistlin you can never tell, he is so powerful!), but that certanily sounded like he was planning on using it. Rosisha
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 13:36:28	Originally posted by talinthas raist never used the bloodstone in recorded dragonlance, and the only time it was used was during fisty's battle with raist. otherwise, we have no idea what it does or can do. Actually....the Bloodstone was statted out in DLA.....and TotL if I remember correctly. And yes....Raist did use the Bloodstone....He used it in his final defeat of Fistandantilus.....It's how he killed him.
#11 talinthas Sep 02, 2003 13:38:25	yes, yes, i'm well aware of those two references. The point is, nothing is ever stated that says that the bloodstone can affect gods on their own planes. raist killing them all is ridiculously unfathomable.
#12 randpc Sep 02, 2003 13:42:50	Originally posted by talinthas raist killing them all is ridiculously unfathomable. How so? We already know definitiively that in an alternate timeline Raistlin did defeat Tackhisis and follow on to kill all of the gods... so I'd say it most definitely was possible.
#13 talinthas Sep 02, 2003 13:51:24	no, you misunderstand me. i think that the whole alternate raist god killer is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. To quote myself- raist killing them all is ridiculously unfathomable. Yes, this means that i think that the end of legends was really unlikely. Perhaps its because i think that gods should be godlike, and not suffer the whims of an overly proud ubermunchkin who thinks that he can take them on.
#14 Charles_Phipps Sep 02, 2003 14:37:07	Want my theory? Maybe Raistlin was being supported by the Three Gods of Magic (or maybe just the God of the Black Robes) and possibly even Kiri-Jolinath to challenge Takhasis. Heck all the Evil gods might have been secretly supporting Raistlin So he ascended at the end of the battle at the Abyss and wielding their divine rank defeated Takhasis. Only if he didn't stop with her :-) But the fact remains Raistlin and his magic was said to be as powerful as the gods and eventually even more powerful. The idea was incorporated into the very setting and the result of thousands of years of work on the part of himself and Fistandatenalius
#15 rosisha Sep 02, 2003 20:58:35	Yeah, Raistlin spend hundreds of years, and Fist spend hundreds of years preparing for that battle. That kind of investment will pay off, and at that point you're talking NPC anyway. Actually, in a sense, i feel most of the bad guys my party face should have this sort of world shattering power at some point. Especially recurring bad guys. I WANT the party to know that if they go out and say "Yeah lets just march up and open up a can of whoop butt" that they are going to be cruelly laughed at as the bad guys servents sweeps their ashes out the door. Thats why Raist is sooooo cool. He represents the most powerful force on Krynn, and damn is it a good feeling when you make the characters try to stop one of his plans. Rosisha
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 22:22:35	If Raistlin had tried to kill Takhisis in the abyss (her home plane), he woul'nt have succeed, he knew that, and that is why he draw her in the prime material plane (which is raist home plane). He knew that Tak would be weeked after her passage trought the portal.
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 22:33:52	The Bloodstone of Fistindantilus? Bah, Tahkisis would just snort at it derisively and toss it into the pile of other adventurer trash that accumulates whenever some player thinks they can fight the gods... They are gods for a reason folks, if it were as easy as a shiny magical pebble everyone would have a go at it. Let's face it, Raistlin was an exception to the rule! Nothing except other gods or the sheer idiocy of a god's (or goddess in Tahkisis' place) own plan can be their undoing... Arandur