Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 21:38:11	Hi there, I need explanations for the dragonspawn template. I wonder at the level adjustment for the spawn (+1 white spawn, +2 black or green spawn, +3 blue spawn and +4 red spawn) are'nt they a little low for all the benefits you gain?
#2 talinthas Sep 02, 2003 21:45:07	well, there's that whole 'being under the complete control of a dragon' thing to consider...
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 21:55:23	s p o i l e r s p a c e Some are said to keep their free will...and even dragon overlord die eventually...ex:Beryllinthranox, Khellendros, Malystryx.
#4 kalanth Sep 02, 2003 21:58:32	Level adjustment is that you take the listed level adjusment, add it to the creatures hit dice, and finally add the character level and you come up with the ECL of the creature. i.e., a 1st level Fighter, Sivak Draconian (level adjustment +4, 6d12 hit dice, and 1 level of fighter) is an ECL of 11.
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 21:59:42	Is that from AoM??
#6 kalanth Sep 02, 2003 22:01:40	Originally posted by Apocalyp$e Is that from AoM?? That equation is from the DMG and added to the Sivak from the DLCS.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 22:13:37	Yes Kalanth, I know that, and it is just the problem, there is no hit dice adjustment for the dragonspawn since it is a template. You take a lvl 1 fighter, you add the template et voilà, a ecl 5 (using the red spawn template)
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 22:40:25	First, that's a similar adjustment found with the half-dragon template. Secondly, there's the whoe "Die Go BOOM!" thingy to consider. Ain't no comin' back from that one ;) Christopher
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 02, 2003 22:50:02	Secondly, there's the whoe "Die Go BOOM!" thingy to consider. Ain't no comin' back from that one Draconian too goes Die Go BOOM!, and they can be brought back....It might be hard (ressurection, true ressurection, wish, miracle, etc.) but it can be done....their death is'nt absolute!
#10 kalanth Sep 03, 2003 11:03:08	Originally posted by Walkhor Yes Kalanth, I know that, and it is just the problem, there is no hit dice adjustment for the dragonspawn since it is a template. You take a lvl 1 fighter, you add the template et voilà, a ecl 5 (using the red spawn template) I noticed a lot of people don't know the equation, and I just grabbed your post and responded blindly. I never looked at the Dragonspawn, cause I was not planning on having them in my campaign at all. There must be a reason for the level adjusment. Irda get no additional hit die and they are lvl adjustment +2.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 18:18:36	Don't swet about it Kalanth, I come by that kind of misunderstanding too, so I did'nt take it personnal:D Still, the problem is not resolved...maybe I should send an e-mail to the conceptor to have their explanation...I just don't know where to send it.
#12 coyote_skyheart Sep 03, 2003 22:57:22	Well lets catalog the dragonspawn's benefits HUGE natural armor bonus, but does not stack with previous natural armor. Flight if not already available Bite/claw attacks if not already available separate attack routine from weapons Breath weapon usable every 2d4 rounds avg damage w/o save white: 7, black: 10, green: 14, blue: 18, red: 22 Death throes 1st level sorceror spellcaster lowlight/darkvision Huge ability bonuses Dragon feat access ... What were they thinking? ... The variation is in ability score benefits (which I won't post) and breath weapon damage. The degrees of level adjustment difference is on par with the ability score bonus variations. A half-dragon (MM) has a level adjustment of +3 which represents.. hd become d12 flight (if large) half the nat armor of the dragonspawn bite/claw attacks breath weapon Once per Day avg 21 damage (no save) dragon immunities ability increases comparable to blue ... since blue is the closest comparison, I've whittled it down to the 'extras' the dragonspawn receives. +3 higher natural armor bonus slightly weaker breath weapon every 2d4 rounds vs. 1/day death throes 1st level sorceror caster -2 str, +2 con, +2 cha (in comparison) [this caused some confusion: a blue dragonspawn gains +6 str, a halfdragon gains +8 str, so in comparison the blue dragonspawn has -2 str, two less strength] significantly weaker hitdie (sometimes) vs. half-dragon Given that, I would think it should be a level adjustment 1 or 2 higher. That assumes you consider death throes to be a drawback... If a d6 or lower hd creature were to become dragonspawn, I think the level adjustment would be on target. ... Forgive my rough calculations
#13 kalanth Sep 04, 2003 11:05:17	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart -2 str, +2 con, +2 cha (in comparison) Just curious if these stats from the Dragonspawn are what is printed? I don't have the DLCS in front of me but that sounds somewhat low. Corse, the calculation to get bonuses/negatives is a bit strange. If it is an even number subtract 10, if odd subtract 11. That means a Sivak draconian has a +6 strength and +4 Con with no negatives anywhere (dex, int, wis, cha are all 10). I was just mentioning this because for some reason these bonuses seems low.
#14 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 13:23:44	Given that, I would think it should be a level adjustment 1 or 2 higher. At least 1 or 2 higher! Maybe we'll see it in an errata...