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Solamnic Knight question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 16:25:23 i was wondering if in any books it supports Knights of the Sword and Rose being clerics/mystics or not? In both 2e and 3e games, knights of the Sword/Rose are spellcasters. This really confuses me. This also makes me wonder if it was impossible to reach Sword and Rose levels in the War of the Lance time when there were no clerics, as the requirement to reach Sword is divine spellcasting ability, and you have to have at least 3 levels of Sword before becoming a Rose knight.
Just wondering if the game rules are reflections of the books or not.
#2
sweetmeats
Sep 03, 2003 17:09:04 I can't recall ever reading about solamnic knights with spellcasting abilities. *Shrugs*

Would the KoS accept a Mystic into their ranks? I mean, Mystics don't support gods so would the Knights accept them?
#3
Dragonhelm
Sep 03, 2003 17:18:23 Dragons of Summer Flame had Sword Knights casting healing spells, and I want to say that some other book had spellcasting knights as well.

As for mystics, yes they would be allowed. Linsha Majere, for example, has a level in mystic. During the early Age of Mortals, the KoS started allowing mystics in their ranks, thereby allowing for Sword and Rose Knights to cast spells in those eras.

Back to the original question, yes you did have Sword and Rose Knights during the Time of Darkness between the Cataclysm and the WotL. However, they wouldn't be able to cast spells. You could probably represent this best by having Fighter levels, and just giving the character the title of Sword or Rose Knight. Or, you could do a non-spellcasting version of the PrC.
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 03, 2003 21:29:04 hrm... if only two or three books had clerical knights in it, then how did sword and rose knights get tagged with clerical requirements (or abilities in 2nd ed)? was this just a translation thing, converting sword knights from paladins to solamnics?
i bet the setting book for the War of the Lance'll cover the non-casting knights though.
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 10:43:46 this also brings me to another question, one i didn't notice covered in the DLCS. Are there any special rules for Knights of the Kingfischer and Lance? Or is it just the Kingfischers are non-human knights, while the Lance ones eventually break off into Dragonrider levels?
#6
cam_banks
Sep 04, 2003 10:49:56 Knights of Solamnia have clerical powers because Margaret and Tracy introduced that concept into the setting with DLA. They didn't have any powers in Chronicles, but then the gods hadn't come back properly yet and all the War of the Lance era knights were non-clerical characters. Elistan was the first follower of Paladine any of them had ever seen.

Cheers,
Cam
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 11:01:49 thanks for the responce, cam! this leaves me to wonder what the classes looked like in and before Chronicles, though, and still curious on the kingfischer and lance knights.
#8
Dragonhelm
Sep 04, 2003 11:03:00 What do you mean by the kingfisher and lance knights?
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 11:44:31 Kingfisher is the emblem of the Knights of Solamnia. Don't know of any other organization using it.

Lance knights could either reference Knights of Solamnia on dragonback with Dragonlances OR Knights of the Golden Lance which were some sort of cavalier organization out of Solanthus and were wiped out during WoTL when Solanthus was under siege.
#10
Dragonhelm
Sep 04, 2003 12:04:56
Lance knights could either reference Knights of Solamnia on dragonback with Dragonlances OR Knights of the Golden Lance which were some sort of cavalier organization out of Solanthus and were wiped out during WoTL when Solanthus was under siege.

The Order of the Gold Lance is mentioned in Unsung Heroes under the entry for Steveck uth Drastin.

Where does it mention that they were wiped out?
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 13:49:36 The part about them being wiped out i got from Uziel's Library of Astinus. So we'll have to track him down for his sources.
#12
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 13:51:12 What i meant about the knights of the kingfischer was something that happened during the Heroes series. Think Kaz was knighted as a Knight of the Kingfischer. Not sure though, might have been one of the other books. IIRC, the Knights of the Kingfischer was a part of the knighthood that accepts non-humans.
#13
Dragonhelm
Sep 04, 2003 13:59:26
Originally posted by Justinian
The part about them being wiped out i got from Uziel's Library of Astinus. So we'll have to track him down for his sources.

If you hear anything on this, let me know. I'm wondering if this is something he came up with, or if there is a source.

Thanks!
#14
jonesy
Sep 04, 2003 14:12:14
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
What i meant about the knights of the kingfischer was something that happened during the Heroes series. Think Kaz was knighted as a Knight of the Kingfischer. Not sure though, might have been one of the other books. IIRC, the Knights of the Kingfischer was a part of the knighthood that accepts non-humans.

Kaz was under the knighthoods protection, but I don't think he was ever knighted. Never heard of a Kingfisher sect of the knighthood either.
#15
zombiegleemax
Sep 04, 2003 14:38:23 hrm.... i could have sworn.... i guess i was wrong. thanks for the info, guys!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 16:25:23	i was wondering if in any books it supports Knights of the Sword and Rose being clerics/mystics or not? In both 2e and 3e games, knights of the Sword/Rose are spellcasters. This really confuses me. This also makes me wonder if it was impossible to reach Sword and Rose levels in the War of the Lance time when there were no clerics, as the requirement to reach Sword is divine spellcasting ability, and you have to have at least 3 levels of Sword before becoming a Rose knight. Just wondering if the game rules are reflections of the books or not.
#2 sweetmeats Sep 03, 2003 17:09:04	I can't recall ever reading about solamnic knights with spellcasting abilities. Shrugs Would the KoS accept a Mystic into their ranks? I mean, Mystics don't support gods so would the Knights accept them?
#3 Dragonhelm Sep 03, 2003 17:18:23	Dragons of Summer Flame had Sword Knights casting healing spells, and I want to say that some other book had spellcasting knights as well. As for mystics, yes they would be allowed. Linsha Majere, for example, has a level in mystic. During the early Age of Mortals, the KoS started allowing mystics in their ranks, thereby allowing for Sword and Rose Knights to cast spells in those eras. Back to the original question, yes you did have Sword and Rose Knights during the Time of Darkness between the Cataclysm and the WotL. However, they wouldn't be able to cast spells. You could probably represent this best by having Fighter levels, and just giving the character the title of Sword or Rose Knight. Or, you could do a non-spellcasting version of the PrC.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2003 21:29:04	hrm... if only two or three books had clerical knights in it, then how did sword and rose knights get tagged with clerical requirements (or abilities in 2nd ed)? was this just a translation thing, converting sword knights from paladins to solamnics? i bet the setting book for the War of the Lance'll cover the non-casting knights though.
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 10:43:46	this also brings me to another question, one i didn't notice covered in the DLCS. Are there any special rules for Knights of the Kingfischer and Lance? Or is it just the Kingfischers are non-human knights, while the Lance ones eventually break off into Dragonrider levels?
#6 cam_banks Sep 04, 2003 10:49:56	Knights of Solamnia have clerical powers because Margaret and Tracy introduced that concept into the setting with DLA. They didn't have any powers in Chronicles, but then the gods hadn't come back properly yet and all the War of the Lance era knights were non-clerical characters. Elistan was the first follower of Paladine any of them had ever seen. Cheers, Cam
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 11:01:49	thanks for the responce, cam! this leaves me to wonder what the classes looked like in and before Chronicles, though, and still curious on the kingfischer and lance knights.
#8 Dragonhelm Sep 04, 2003 11:03:00	What do you mean by the kingfisher and lance knights?
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 11:44:31	Kingfisher is the emblem of the Knights of Solamnia. Don't know of any other organization using it. Lance knights could either reference Knights of Solamnia on dragonback with Dragonlances OR Knights of the Golden Lance which were some sort of cavalier organization out of Solanthus and were wiped out during WoTL when Solanthus was under siege.
#10 Dragonhelm Sep 04, 2003 12:04:56	Lance knights could either reference Knights of Solamnia on dragonback with Dragonlances OR Knights of the Golden Lance which were some sort of cavalier organization out of Solanthus and were wiped out during WoTL when Solanthus was under siege. The Order of the Gold Lance is mentioned in Unsung Heroes under the entry for Steveck uth Drastin. Where does it mention that they were wiped out?
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 13:49:36	The part about them being wiped out i got from Uziel's Library of Astinus. So we'll have to track him down for his sources.
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 13:51:12	What i meant about the knights of the kingfischer was something that happened during the Heroes series. Think Kaz was knighted as a Knight of the Kingfischer. Not sure though, might have been one of the other books. IIRC, the Knights of the Kingfischer was a part of the knighthood that accepts non-humans.
#13 Dragonhelm Sep 04, 2003 13:59:26	Originally posted by Justinian The part about them being wiped out i got from Uziel's Library of Astinus. So we'll have to track him down for his sources. If you hear anything on this, let me know. I'm wondering if this is something he came up with, or if there is a source. Thanks!
#14 jonesy Sep 04, 2003 14:12:14	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme What i meant about the knights of the kingfischer was something that happened during the Heroes series. Think Kaz was knighted as a Knight of the Kingfischer. Not sure though, might have been one of the other books. IIRC, the Knights of the Kingfischer was a part of the knighthood that accepts non-humans. Kaz was under the knighthoods protection, but I don't think he was ever knighted. Never heard of a Kingfisher sect of the knighthood either.
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2003 14:38:23	hrm.... i could have sworn.... i guess i was wrong. thanks for the info, guys!