How are the poison handling rules in DS3.5?
The bards description says that he gets the poison use skill at 2nd level but there is no more information on how to handle poisons anymore.
The what poisons does the bard has access to? Is he still using his Alchemy skill and is Alchemy still exclusive to Bards? It also seems that Posion Secrets are gone?
I also believe that a poison table like in DS2 is missing where a player can roll or choose from which poisons he learns each level.
Beside all this, I feel the use of poisons as they are given in the DMG is to some extend powerless on Athas. e.g. the use of a moderate poison that does 1d3 or 1d4 points of CON or STR damage to a half-giant will not help the bard to survive in a pit. Note that only initial damage really counts as the bard usually never survives a minute to experience the effect of the secondary damage on the target :D
As a suggestion, I think the bards access to poisons should be something like this:
EITHER:
have the bard roll his alchemy against a DC to determine the type of posion he could generate. E.G.
DC to generate a poison is 10 +
2 per damage dice per effect
1 per DC (victims save) over 10
2 to 8 per special damage (stunned, blinded, death etc)
1 to 3 per application mode (injury, inhale etc)
The bard should be allowed for one roll per level per day if he has access to the neccessary materials.
OR:
provide a poison table where the bard could roll each new level to gain the knowledge on one or more posions (as in DS2). The bard should be allowed to roll until he gets a new poison - no faint rolls on this table.
The bard should be able to purchase other poisons just like potions and should therefore be able to use his posion dealer skill. But he should not be able to learn new poisons by buying them only by rolling on the table when achieving a new level.
Poisons that are known to the bard should be made available to him at a low price or for free. I hate the idea of having my bard players wasting 1 hour per evening of playing time by strolling around elven markets and haggeling for poisons secretly.
2. Poison use is covered in the DMG. A character without the Poison Use feature has a 5% chance of accidentally poisoning himself when applying poison.
3. Bards have access to whatever poisons the DM lets them. To create poisons the bard uses Craft (poisonmaker). There are no exclusive skills in 3.5, but on Athas you need a bard level (rather than spellcaster level) to create alchemical items. Poison secrets are covered by the Trade Secret class feature. The Poisonmaster PrC has more poison tricks up its sleeve.
4. All characters with Craft (poisonmaker) have access to all poisons for which they can succeed the craft DC, unless the DM wants to restrict certain poisons. Thus no need for a list. Silence and Song has poison creation DCs.
5. Poisons are no less useful on Athas than other worlds. A bard in a pit fight wielding a pair of weapons smeared with Dragon Bile is a winning tip regardless of which world you're playing in - and it has no secondary effect. If you're up against a half-giant, for Ral's sake - use something that affects his Int or other mental stats. You deserve to die if you are so dumb you use Str affecting poisons on a half-giant.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Silence and Song has poison creation DCs.
(...)
If you're up against a half-giant, for Ral's sake - use something that affects his Int or other mental stats. You deserve to die if you are so dumb you use Str affecting poisons on a half-giant.
reg Silence & Song: Did nt know that. Surely worth having a look.
reg Half-Giants: ah that s why my bards do die that often
So the bard should always carry a bag of at least 6 weapons so he is prepared to counter whatever creature with whatever low score is put into his way. That leaves the bard with only two weapon choices : lots of daggers or ranged weapons fireing arrows or bolts.
(this is just joking, of course you re right with your note)
Famous last words of the Athasian bards:
1) f*ck, I forgot on which edge I put the CON-affecting poison... :D
2) I cut my hand with my Bard's Friend but I can't remember with which blade... :D
Bromley(...): I'll get around to doing a list with athasian poisons one day. I might write an article to go with it, where I include some optional poison rules and a revised Poisonmaster prestige class. Sound good?
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Nagypapi: :D Someone come up with a random effect table linked to using too many antidotes.
and a cross reference table what happens if a metabolism has to deal with more than one poison at a time
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Bromley(...): I'll get around to doing a list with athasian poisons one day. I might write an article to go with it, where I include some optional poison rules and a revised Poisonmaster prestige class. Sound good?
that sounds wonderfull
Natural Poisons and Excretions of Athas
Animal, Herd
Jankz
Poison: Jankz have spurs and poison sacs located on the underside of each limb near the paw. A successful hit from a spur injects poison into the victim. The victim must make fortitude save at DC 10. If they fail tremendous pain follows as the area that is infected with the poison begins to wither. The effected area shrivels and becomes useless at a rate of 1" diameter per round. Neutralize poison will negate the poison, while a slow poison will slow the withering to 1" per hour. The victim is capable of no other action but to scream in pain until the poison runs its course. If injected into the head the victim will lose 1 point of Intelligence per 10 minutes until their Intelligence reaches zero. The victim then becomes comatose and will eventually die of starvation.
Antloid, Desert
Soldier
Poison: Infantry have a stinger in which they inject their poison into victims. A successful attack does 1d4 damage with the stinger and injects a deadly neurotoxin. Archer antloids however, shoot a thin stream of poison from their poison gland, the range of which is 50 feet.
A successful poison attack requires a Fort save at DC 19, a failed save means the victim takes 30 points of primary damage and no secondary damage. A successful Fort save reduces the primary damage to 2d6. Soldier antloids are immune to their own poison.
Bvanen
Secreted Ooze: All bvanen secrete special ooze through their pores. This ooze hardens extremely fast and is very strong. It provides the bvanen with protection from blows, as well as giving it the ability to immobilize foes. On a normal hit, a bvanen can choose not to inflict damage, but rather to stick this ooze to his foe. The struck body part cannot be used. Roll 1d8 to determine the body part affected (1d8: 1-head, 2-3: right arm, 4-5: left arm, 6-8: either leg). A successful Strength check will allow the foe to break free of the ooze.
Cha'thrang
Poison: Dart, Fortitude save (DC 16), initial damage 1 temporary strength damage, secondary damage 2d6 temporary strength damage.
Cistern Fiend (Water worm)
Poison (Ex): Tentacle; Fortitude save DC (26), initial damage 1d6 temporary Dexterity damage, and secondary damage 2d6 temporary Dexterity damage.
Dagolar Slimes
Web (Ex): At will, Dagolar slimes can launch an extremely sticky adhesive at a single target. The target must make a Reflex save (DC 18) or act as if affected by a web spell. A successful Reflex save indicates that the victim has leapt out of the path of the spray.
Dune Freak (Anakore)
Poison (Ex): Anakore deliver its poison (Fortitude save DC 13) after a successful bite attack. Initial damage is 1 point of temporary Strength damage, and the secondary damage is 1d6 points of temporary Strength damage.
Floater
Poison (Ex): Floaters inject poison into their victim if any of their tentacles scores a hit. Fortitude save (DC 13), initial damage is paralysis for 2d6 minutes, no secondary damage.
Mastyrial
Poison (Ex): Sting, Fortitude save (DC 19); initial and secondary damage 2d6 temporary constitution.
Psionocus
Poison (Ex): Bite, Fortitude save (DC 11), initial damage sleep for 1 minute plus loss of 2 psionic power points per round until victim awakens, secondary damage sleep for another 5d6 minutes
Silk Wyrm
Poison (Ex): The silk wyrm delivers its poison with a successful bite attack (Fortitude save DC 18, initial damage 1d4 temporary Strength; secondary damage paralysis 1d4 days).
So-ut (Rampager)
Acid (Ex): Each successful claw attack secretes acid. Anyone who is hit by a claw attack must make a Fort save at DC 20, or take an additional 20 points of acid damage. A successful save only means 10 points of acid damage were taken. A failure means armor and weapons were hit by this acid as well, and must make fortitude save (use the attendee's saves) at the same DC or far apart, corroded and useless in one round. Metal items must make the save at DC 22. Rampagers always attack armor and weapons first, using their Sunder feat.
Spider Cactus
Paralysis: Once a purple needle hits the victim must make Fortitude save at a +2 competence bonus or be paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.
Spider, Dark
Poison (Ex): Bite, Fortitude save (DC 18); initial and secondary 2d6 temporary constitution damage.